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MsKaye

Infighting... real deal or scripted?

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I know Infighting was a feature everyone wanted and I'm... not sure if the infighting moments are scripted or if they actually do happen, just not "mechanically" (As in it's not a 'mechanic' you can really exploit) speaking. The moment that sticks out in my mind is in Kadingir Sanctum, during that bit where you have to Double Jump across a chasm of floating rocks. It seems that no matter what, a Revenant and a Mancubus will fight.

Yet during my most recent playthrough I noticed spots of Infighting that I really, *really* don't seem to recall. I really tried my damndest to prod the A.I. into doing it but it never really seemed to work. My memory is kinda weak so I typically only remember "Kadingir Sanctum, Mancubus, Revenant." But I know it happens a few times. Are these just scripted moments I haven't really noticed due to the fracas, or can you actually get them infighting somehow? Like is it just a random thing that *might* happen? Do specific monsters infight?

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There are several scripted infighting scenes.

-Mission 04 Argent Facility, the Imps at the first Gore Nest will always attack the Possessed. In fact, if you follow the field drone, by the time you come back up, all the possessed will be killed.

-Mission 06 Kadingir Sanctum has three scripted infighting scenes. The Baron intro, 2 Revenants vs. Mancubus, and right before the final battle, the Imps attacking the Possessed.

-Mission 08 Advanced Research Complex, the single Mancubus at the beginning will always roast the Possessed out in the hall.

-Mission 11 Necropolis, when you reach the point where the voice says, "he must not be allowed to retrieve the Crucible", there will always be an Imp, a Revenant, a Mancubus and Cacodemon going at each other.

Every other occurence of infighting is random if there are enough demons present and the fight drags out long enough.

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There is "real" infighting in the game. I saw hellknight beating the shit out of an Imp for shooting him with a fireball on Foundry a couple of times. There were some more but I don't remember the combatants. But yeah. .They are EXTREMELY rare!

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I think people being unable to provide video evidence of unscripted infighting at this point is pretty good proof that it's not there.

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Several times I've seen enemies get hit by other enemies and not react at all. I can't help but wonder why they would take out one of the more iconic behaviors of Doom monsters.

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The Civ said:

It exists, and I had it happen a few times in-game.
Here's a pretty good example video.



I notice the Hell Knight can't seem to harm the Revenant when it's in Glory Kill mode, thus can never finish it off.

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Monsters should be able to glory kill eachother. I think it wild be pretty badass to see a hellknight to hoist a revenant over his head and bane the shit out of him while you're in the middle of a battle. It would also help multiplayer so demon v demon fights could happen in multiplayer.

(In my opinion i think thE demon rune should be like ultimates from overwatch, where you have to charge it up by killing people and shit. If everyone can become a demon once they earn it then massive multiplayer demon battles could happen. Ultimates in doom could replace loadouts as the modern trait in the game.)

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If you are playing the game full on, you aren't gonna notice it/it won't be there. If you loudly crash the party with run and shoot, they're all gonna turn to you.

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GoatLord said:

Several times I've seen enemies get hit by other enemies and not react at all. I can't help but wonder why they would take out one of the more iconic behaviors of Doom monsters.

To be fair, in Doom '93 you'll have demons hit other demons and not trigger infighting - because it's not a 100% thing. In '93, iirc, the hit demon needs to have not changed targets for a certain amount of time before it can infight, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's similar logic + some sort of accumulated damage threshold required to trigger it in '16.

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It's not a viable strategy in Doom 2016. I do think it works but it's quite difficult and doesn't always work as intended. The Demons avoid harming one another, Zombies excluded.

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Kind of interesting how there appears to be something of a hierarchy within Hell, pure demons looking down upon and even attacking possessed humans. Perhaps they look down upon demon spirits that are considered cowardly enough to have to inhabit human bodies.

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MetroidJunkie said:

Kind of interesting how there appears to be something of a hierarchy within Hell, pure demons looking down upon and even attacking possessed humans. Perhaps they look down upon demon spirits that are considered cowardly enough to have to inhabit human bodies.


It's funny you mention that. I don't know if Doom 2016 is set up this way, but in Doom 3, all the monsters are ranked in their .def files from 0-3. By default, if a monster is hit by another monster, he will only fight back if his rank is greater than or equal to that of the offending party. Zombies are mostly ranked 0, Imps and such are ranked 1, mid-level monsters are ranked 2, and bosses and monsters like the Arch-Vile are ranked 3.

I don't know how the new Doom is set up, but I'm fairly certain I've seen zombies attack other demons when they've been struck by errant attacks. So it may not use the same ranking system, if it uses one at all.

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Lol, WOW, that is the worst case of infighting I have seen in the new game. I'm not surprised that it is in Lazarus Labs though. That map packs a whole bunch of demons into each tightly packed arena, so that players have plenty of opportunities to complete the "Thread The Needle" challenge. Even then, during my recorded playthrough, I only noticed a Mancubus finish off an Imp in the Helix Room battle.

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I'v never seen that before. I'v seen a caco demon fight a hellknight but nothing else that I can remember that was unscripted. Sorry I don't have video proof.

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I feel like it wouldn't have hurt the game to make infighting a more common thing. It's not like it would take away from the combat. In fact, there should have been a sequence where you have to do it to get through an area, or at least, make the ammo in that area so scarce that it would be to your advantage to instigate infighting.

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GoatLord said:

I feel like it wouldn't have hurt the game to make infighting a more common thing. It's not like it would take away from the combat. In fact, there should have been a sequence where you have to do it to get through an area, or at least, make the ammo in that area so scarce that it would be to your advantage to instigate infighting.

The idea is a decent one but it would be difficult to communicate that need without hand holding them with someone saying "make the demons fight one another via their own projectiles". If players don't catch on then they will simply attempt to complete the segment over and over via traditional means with a negative experience.

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How about SnapMap? Surely if you choose where monsters are placed you can engineer a situation to make infighting more likely; e.g. place monsters in cages so that they can't move out and the player can get into alignment with them.

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Have seen it unscripted in very random rare instances, especially when enemies are all lumped together in small space.

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I've actually seen cases (Snapmap, largely) where demons will be harmed by other demons (I saw a Cacodemon get caught up in a Hell Razor's laser) but not retaliate at all. I think they infight but then immediately stop if the player is close enough in the vicinity.

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MetroidJunkie said:

I think they infight but then immediately stop if the player is close enough in the vicinity.


Yeah, this is a big difference between the infighting in classic Doom vs DOOM 16. I've noticed unscripted infighting on occasion, but the demons (to their credit) seem to put aside their petty squabbles and work together as soon as the Doom Slayer comes anywhere close to them. So the infighting is less noticeable.

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MetroidJunkie said:

I've actually seen cases (Snapmap, largely) where demons will be harmed by other demons (I saw a Cacodemon get caught up in a Hell Razor's laser) but not retaliate at all. I think they infight but then immediately stop if the player is close enough in the vicinity.


Hmm, I've noticed that infighting is much more frequent in Snapmap, rather than the singleplayer. Because of this, I feel that id kind of wasted an opportunity, namely that demons should perform glory kills on each other. It would spice things up and add an extra layer of challenge (i.e. a Baron tossing a demon corpse at you, that it just ripped in half).

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Man of Doom said:

I feel that id kind of wasted an opportunity, namely that demons should perform glory kills on each other. It would spice things up and add an extra layer of challenge (i.e. a Baron tossing a demon corpse at you, that it just ripped in half).


That sounds like something we'd see in a sequel. People have mentioned having chained glory kills, gun glory kills, demon vs demon glory kills, etc.

There's certainly a lot of potential to expand glory kills, but of course id Software needs to make sure they keep a level of restraint and keep the game as a shooter primarily.

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GaussMaster987 said:

I would love to see the Glory Kill system get expanded, but what exactly would "chained glory kills" be?


I think something like if there's two enemies that can be glory killed, you can rip the head off one and beat the second one with it (for example). So there would be some branching animations I guess.

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Today I finished replaying Doom 2016, on mission 13: Argent D'Nur, the final battle before the Spider Mastermind a Hell Knight and a Pinky were infighting. I must have zig zagged between the two and someone clobbered someone and the next thing you know they were duking it out. Then I saw it, a moment in Doom that made me laugh out loud. The pinky charged just as the hell knight leaped for his ground slam attack, the pinky ran beneath the hell knight and kept going, going right off a ledge and fell face first onto the ground and died instantly with it's tail sticking straight up in the air. Apparently gravity can kill demons!

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