Zdoom 2.8.1 and PRBoom+ v2.5.1.4 Problems

[CrazyDoomguy]

There are 4 problems... I dont know how solve...
This Video show you a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEZxahz-ylI

[Edward850]

Remember: All "bugs" expressed by PRBoom+ in gameplay are actually intended artifacts from vanilla Doom, otherwise it can't maintain demo compatibility. ZDoom doesn't care about any of that and makes its own rules.

1. Things in Doom are infinitely tall. Someone hasn't played enough vanilla Doom, it seems.
2. See 1.
3. ZDoom changed the voodoo doll behavior quite extensively because reasons. PRBoom's behavior is actually the correct one, that being that any health gained by a voodoo doll is only given to the actual player, and killing the voodoo doll when the player themselves has more health puts the player in a half dead state.
4. A linedef with an action will block the use function from extending to other lines. The order in which these operations occur and if the use transferred on is undefined, except in ports that maintain demo compatibility, where it is expressly defined. As the line is only 16 units across, you cannot move far enough ahead of the useless action in PRBoom. This is a mapping error anyway and something that you can fix on your own.

[baja blast rd.]

Edward850's post is correct. If you are mapping for Boom format, you can use the "PassThru" flag so that linedef actions don't block use actions.

[CrazyDoomguy]

That because I cant make TAS on my VeryHard WAD (tested on Zdoom) and Tarakannik level 25 and 31. Besides i heard, PRBoom dont support Decorate txt... can I something do?

[Edward850]

CrazyDoomguy said:

Besides i heard, PRBoom dont support Decorate txt... can I something do?

Well of course not. Again, decorate is a ZDoom feature, not vanilla Doom. You seem to have some rather odd expectations for base features in a game made in 1993.
(Unless you can somehow convert your decorate additions to dehacked. However the usual rule-of-thumb is if you have to ask, you can't.)

[CrazyDoomguy]

Prboom plus dont read MAPINFO and I cant make TAS on map 34 because of shit music... besides I cant play more than 36 levels because of music errors.

WHat should I do?

[Memfis]

You will have to use the -nomusic parameter.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Memfis said:

You will have to use the -nomusic parameter.

Ok, but on demo will no music? Or how can I add music into video walktrough?

[Ribbiks]

Memfis said:

You will have to use the -nomusic parameter.

maps up there also crash for not finding CWILVxx graphics at the intermission screen, etc. But that (along with midi) is seemingly the only thing standing in the way.

In my personal copy of prb+ I made a few changes to allow levels >35. Trivial to do but involves lots of things that I'm sure prevent it from ever being implemented by the developers (outside the scope of the port, standardizing map/gfx names for the extra slots for all possible iwad combinations, etc). Time to release a 100-map megawad that no one else can play, yay!

[Gez]

CrazyDoomguy said:

I cant make TAS on map 34 because of shit music...

If you say so.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Gez said:

If you say so.

The music was on Doom II title music. On MAPINFO thislevel should switch other music, but prboom ignore txt. document!

[Voros]

PrBoom doesn't read MAPINFO. Replace the title music with your music of choice, and it should be fixed.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Voros said:

PrBoom doesn't read MAPINFO.

Yes and that is a problem making TAS. Need be fixed or new version of prboom

[Voros]

That's not a bug. It's a feature not needed nor suitable for PrBoom.

Record your demo with ZDoom 2.8.1 cause I don't see any other choice (GZDoom and QZDoom are in continual development and usually only demos made in specific versions work with only that version of GZ/QZDoom).

[dew]

Voros said:

Record your demo with ZDoom 2.8.1 cause I don't see any other choice (GZDoom and QZDoom are in continual development and usually only demos made in specific versions work with only that version of GZ/QZDoom).

Holy crap, this made me realize we now have a stable demo standard for Zdoom. Randi's final gift to the community, heh.

[Gez]

Voros said:

It's a feature not needed nor suitable for PrBoom.

This is as ridiculous as claiming that you can't "TAS" a level because of its background music. Having a better way to set your map's name, sky, music, par time, and secret exit target "wouldn't be suitable"? We're not talking about anything that changes the gameplay here. We're talking about things that are largely already possible through other, more complicated ways (DEHACKED mostly, but also MBF sky transfers) and the only new feature it'd bring would be the ability to put functional secret exit elsewhere than in MAP15 and MAP31.

[Azuruish]

CrazyDoomguy said:

Ok, but on demo will no music? Or how can I add music into video walktrough?

By magic i guess... or by any Video Editor...

[Graf Zahl]

Voros said:

PrBoom doesn't read MAPINFO.

Why not? Because all mapsets contain 32 maps, with MAP15 leading to the secret exit and MAP31 leading to the super secret exit, and the secret exit in E1 being in M3 and the end boss of E1 always being a Baron of Hell and MAP07 always having a Mancubus/Arachnotron combo and no other map ever having such a thing?

I hope that paragraph above shows how little sense your statement makes. I find it utterly baffling that this simplest and most essential of all modding features requires an advanced engine, although nothing it would introduce had any impact on compatibility whatsoever.

[Voros]

So if I put it in a MAPINFO file written in DECORATE, PrBoom will apply it in game?

Gez said:

This is as ridiculous as claiming that you can't "TAS" a level because of its background music. Having a better way to set your map's name, sky, music, par time, and secret exit target "wouldn't be suitable"? We're not talking about anything that changes the gameplay here. We're talking about things that are largely already possible through other, more complicated ways (DEHACKED mostly, but also MBF sky transfers) and the only new feature it'd bring would be the ability to put functional secret exit elsewhere than in MAP15 and MAP31.

I thought a MAPINFO file depended on ZDoom's DECORATE, which PrBoom doesn't have. But I suppose unsuitable isn't the correct word here, my bad.

[Graf Zahl]

MAPINFO has no dependencies on DECORATE, this lump originates from Hexen. ZDoom did some overhaul of the format to allow better support of its features but the basics are just something along:

"This is map MAPxx, it is named "My map", it exists to MAPyy, or secret exits to "MAPzz" and uses "SKYa" as its default sky texture and D_abcd as music, and starts its episodes at the following maps: {insert list here}

All very relevant, especially when you consider the hacks some Boom compatible megawads hat to employ to divide the game into multiple episodes and the amount of work required to set a new sky for a map.

[dew]

Graf Zahl said:

Why not? Because all mapsets contain 32 maps, with MAP15 leading to the secret exit and MAP31 leading to the super secret exit, and the secret exit in E1 being in M3 and the end boss of E1 always being a Baron of Hell and MAP07 always having a Mancubus/Arachnotron combo and no other map ever having such a thing?

I hope that paragraph above shows how little sense your statement makes. I find it utterly baffling that this simplest and most essential of all modding features requires an advanced engine, although nothing it would introduce had any impact on compatibility whatsoever.

Uh, how the hell would be a demo with nonstandard map progression or map07 specials used elsewhere be even remotely compatible with anything in existence? It would need an entire set of new complevels (2+, 3+, 9+) and it would still be impossible to play back on alternative engines that don't follow the new paradigm.

[Graf Zahl]

???

Of course any maps with such definitions would have those definitions in the same WAD as the map itself so how should it impact demo compatibility?

You wouldn't seriously suggest that someone would expect a Valiant demo to play on Alien Ventetta or the other way around, do you?

[dew]

Back to Saturn X E2 has coop-fixed hubmaps that are only accessed via MAPINFO. If prboom-plus reads it and redirects the player into the sanitized hubs, the run will desync if played back in chocolate.

[esselfortium]

dew said:

Back to Saturn X E2 has coop-fixed hubmaps that are only accessed via MAPINFO. If prboom-plus reads it and redirects the player into the sanitized hubs, the run will desync if played back in chocolate.

That could potentially be a problem, though I'm thinking the answer there would be to ignore MAPINFO when playing/recording vanilla demos, or possibly whenever using the relevant complevel(s?). That way would ensure that the demo is actually vanilla, though it might be a bit of a nuclear option.

On that thought, I wonder how Eternity handles this dilemma already, since it has a -vanilla recording mode and has a mapinfo format.

[dew]

esselfortium said:

That could potentially be a problem, though I'm thinking the answer there would be to ignore MAPINFO when playing/recording vanilla demos, or possibly whenever using the relevant complevel(s?). That way would ensure that the demo is actually vanilla, though it might be a bit of a nuclear option.

On that thought, I wonder how Eternity handles this dilemma already, since it has a -vanilla recording mode and has a mapinfo format.

That's why I said enhanced complevels (2+, 3+, ...) might be necessary. You want MAPINFO ignored for a case such as BtSX, but you want it used for a potential megawad with non-standard features/map progression otherwise aimed at particular engine physics, since that megawad isn't compatible with choco/"limited" ports anyway. Adding a "use mapinfo" parameter to the demo footer would work for pr+ itself, but then you have to decide if it's on by default or not, which might confuse new runners.

[Altazimuth]

Putting demo stuff aside for a second, which version of MAPINFO would PRBoom+ even use? Would it have it's own custom version called PMAPINFO (or something similar), based off Hexen, to avoid confusion with other MAPINFO types? Would it just try for a subset of old ZDoom MAPINFO, new ZDoom MAPINFO, Eternity's EMAPINFO? It's already confusing enough for editors and the like to try and detect what type of MAPINFO a lump called MAPINFO is.

[TimeOfDeath]

Ribbiks said:

In my personal copy of prb+ I made a few changes to allow levels >35. Trivial to do but involves lots of things that I'm sure prevent it from ever being implemented by the developers (outside the scope of the port, standardizing map/gfx names for the extra slots for all possible iwad combinations, etc). Time to release a 100-map megawad that no one else can play, yay!

If prboom-plus isn't interested in those changes, would it be legal and possible for you to release your version as a new source port? Every year there seems to be megawads that break the map limit. It would be really useful to have that limit raised!

[Ribbiks]

chiming in to voice support for MAPINFO in prb+, however clumsily implemented :)

wasn't kb1 working on some secret mystery port that was a hybrid of prb+/zd functionality? Yes please!

TimeOfDeath said:

If prboom-plus isn't interested in those changes, would it be legal and possible for you to release your version as a new source port? Every year there seems to be megawads that break the map limit. It would be really useful to have that limit raised!

legally I don't think there's any problem with forking prb+ and incorporating the hacky map limit changes (as long as gpl2 requirements are adhered to), but the result would be an esoteric exe that no one else on the planet would play or watch demos on :p. If the MAPINFO thing is actually anywhere near being actually considered I'd hold out for that. Alternatively, Eternity might already have combination of features we're talking about here? (cl2/3/4/9 demo compat + mapinfo support?)

[Graf Zahl]

Altazimuth said:

Putting demo stuff aside for a second, which version of MAPINFO would PRBoom+ even use? Would it have it's own custom version called PMAPINFO (or something similar), based off Hexen, to avoid confusion with other MAPINFO types? Would it just try for a subset of old ZDoom MAPINFO, new ZDoom MAPINFO, Eternity's EMAPINFO? It's already confusing enough for editors and the like to try and detect what type of MAPINFO a lump called MAPINFO is.

Well, to be honest, if it ever came to pass, of the currently available formats, classic Hexen or old ZDoom MAPINFO are entirely unusable because you need to know all possible content to parse them, making them a potential hazard for other ports, should some port extend it with new keys.

It needs to be a format that is capable of safely skipping unknown content, which would restrict it to EMAPINFO or ZMAPINFO if some existing syntax had to be reused. Of course for backwards compatibility reasons I'd use a completely new name (e.g. DMAPINFO, 'D' standing for Doom), so that it wouldn't accidentally load some old lump for other ports and make such a format part of a potential Boom+ standard that then could be supported by all of them, and eliminate the current chaos due to every port having their own method, which is just not good.

It's ridiculous that for such a basic feature, 4 port families which support it have 4 different definition formats.

[printz]

I thought PrBoom+ isn't supposed to add ANY features. Just use DEHACKED if you want modified map names or music slots.