ZDoom ceases development

[Reisal]

We should also preserve copies of the port on /idgames/, unless it's already there so it will always have a space for download as well.

[Angry Saint]

Very sorry to read this. Zdoom was the first port I played and mapped for. I started switching to GZDoom few years ago but Zdoom still have a place in my Heart. Cacoward Immediately.

[Voros]

Glaice said:

We should also preserve copies of the port on /idgames/, unless it's already there so it will always have a space for download as well.

That would be an excellent idea. Since ZDoom has officially stopped development, 2.8.1 should up there for future downloads, and the earliest build of ZDoom for historical purposes.

[Caffeine Freak]

Sad to see this go. Zdoom has always been on of my go-to ports, along with GZdoom, prBoom+ and Doomsday. I certainly appreciate all that it's added to the Doom community over the years.

[Rachael]

Glaice said:

We should also preserve copies of the port on /idgames/, unless it's already there so it will always have a space for download as well.

Voros said:

That would be an excellent idea. Since ZDoom has officially stopped development, 2.8.1 should up there for future downloads, and the earliest build of ZDoom for historical purposes.

@ You both:

Check https://zdoom.org/files/zdoom/ - there should be a lot of things there, that you can upload to /idgames/

If you want some utilities, grab some stuff out of its parent folder https://zdoom.org/files/ too.

I should mention, however, as long as I retain control of the site and its feasible, those files are not going away anytime soon, but if you want to preserve them it never hurts.

[Mordeth]

Eruanna said:

as long as I retain control of the site

We all like to think we live forever, but fact is: we don't. That's been made abundantly clear in an unfortunately many number of instances in a long-lived community such as ours. Take steps to preserve this piece of Doom history in one's own absence.

[DMPhobos]

So sad to see ZDoom cease development, it truly changed Doom mods in the last decades, that being said, im glad that it's legacy still continues on GZDoom and QZDoom.

I can't thank Randy enough for ZDoom. Long live ZDoom!

[kb1]

What's with all the boo-hoos? Randy can move on to bigger/better things, the code is all there, still being actively maintained by multiple dedicated folks. And anyone can grab the source and make their own enhancement port 24/7. You know, vanilla Doom ceased development over two decades ago :)

[LexiMax]

Many years ago, I did my level best to try and archive old source release of ZDoom in a git repository.

https://github.com/doomtech/zdoom-old

I'm not sure how complete this is - I am pretty sure I hit every major release, but I also think that in the case that there were both a windows and linux source-dump available, I went with the Linux version.

[Fusion]

Randi: Thanks for your epic contribution to the doom community! Zdoom was and still is one of the greatest ports to ever grace the doom community; Your efforts will live on in infamy.

Also a shoutout to Graf Zahl for continuing on with Gzdoom and of course the QZdoom creators, Keep up the great work guys! You're more appreciated than you know.

[scifista42]

Fusion said:

Qdoom

QZDoom, not QDoom.

[Fusion]

scifista42 said:

QZDoom, not QDoom.

Typo, Ty.

[Maes]

The question now is who'll take over development, and who, in a sense, will dictate the new features that the derivative ports will have to catch up with (especially aspects NOT having to do with the renderer).

Will development in derivatives cease/freeze/be restricted just to the renderer and netcode until official ZDoom development picks up again? Or will each derivative port diverge and evolve into its own, quasi-ZDoom-compatible family?

[Graf Zahl]

Let's see:

- Zandronum has been based on GZDoom for many years now
- QZDoom is a branch of GZDoom whose sole purpose is to rewrite the software renderer.

If someone else branches off I cannot control what its maker will do, of course, but that has been the case with ZDoom as well - just have a look at GLOOME for a good example of someone not keeping sync. (Yes, it died, and all added features along with it.)


Please stop spreading FUD.

[Maes]

To rephrase my question: is there some non-renderer-specific, non-forward compatible feature found in GZDoom (and its derivatives) but not ZDoom?

E.g. a new DECORATE function or new linedef type that standard ZDoom will not recognize? If so then yeah, GZDoom has effectively branched off into its own separate standard with only a backwards compatibility to ZDoom's feature set at a certain point in time, and ZDoom is, now officially, just as set in stone as Boom is.

You're way too easy to pull on that FUD trigger, BTW.

[Graf Zahl]

Maes said:

To rephrase my question: is there some non-renderer-specific, non-forward compatible feature found in GZDoom (and its derivatives) but not ZDoom?

Considering that ZDoom is no longer maintained and all current work done on GZDoom, that's the inevitable way of things.

I mean, what part of 'ceases development' is unclear?

[Gez]

Maes said:

To rephrase my question: is there some non-renderer-specific, non-forward compatible feature found in GZDoom (and its derivatives) but not ZDoom?

ZDoom effectively ceased development on December 29, 2016. So yes.

Most notably, ZScript (the fabled, long-awaited DoomScript).


In fact ZScript is largely part of what killed ZDoom. It's something Randi had been working on and off for years. There was a new VM and a half-completed backend in the engine but then Randi disappeared again shortly after the good old DECORATE stuff was switched to use the new VM. Graf started working on giving ZScript a frontend to make it actually usable, and there was very little to no input from Randi, effectively forcing Graf to call the shots.

The other big part is that we had a newcomer who arrived with a full-color upgrade for the software renderer and, again, Randi left no comment as for whether he wanted it included or not, so it ended up starting to rot and instead of seeing it get eventually forgotten it was decided to just merge it into a fork and keep develop it from there; that's how QZDoom was started.

Because of that kind of things Graf decided to leave ZDoom to Randi and just focus on GZDoom now, even for non-rendering stuff (such as finishing up the first stage of ZScript on GZDoom only, not on ZDoom). That left Randi with the choice:
- come back and take active part in development again, despite whatever reason caused her to stop in the first place (lack of time? loss of passion? burn-out?)
- let ZDoom die, by unofficially ceasing development; just a prolonged hiatus.
- let ZDoom die, by officially ceasing development.

That's when she made the courageous choice of making it official. I just wish that the current state of development would receive a last, final official build, because there's nearly a year of stuff since 2.8.1 (February 2016).

[Maes]

Gez said:

I just wish that the current state of development would receive a last, final official build, because there's nearly a year of stuff since 2.8.1 (February 2016).

At that point, it would be just a "goodbye" release, not to be used as a base for anything really, since from what you wrote GZDoom and its own derivatives have already started diverging and carving their own paths for the best part of a year. It might be easy/worth it to incorporate that last year's worth of changes, or maybe not.

So, the King (ZDoom) is dead, all hail the King (GZDoom)?

[Gez]

Maes said:

a "goodbye" release

That's the idea.

[Graf Zahl]

Gez said:

That's when she made the courageous choice of making it official. I just wish that the current state of development would receive a last, final official build, because there's nearly a year of stuff since 2.8.1 (February 2016).

That wouldn't have worked, as you can see by GDoom 2.3 already having received two point releases for fixing issues coming from ZScript. This was a huge change and I expect one or two more of these until the branch can be declared stable.

To do a final ZDoom this stuff would have needed to get ironed out first. The only chance would have been to go back a month or two, before ZScript and before some of the contributions to the renderer.

[printz]

Does the QZDoom renderer look like the vanilla one, or like the GZDoom one? I'm asking because some maps and mods don't adapt well to the 3D renderer.

[Graf Zahl]

The True color renderer looks mostly like GZDoom with 'software' lighting mode, i.e. it uses the light falloff like the 8-bit version but has smooth gradients.

Or if you ask about sprite clipping, that's done like 8-bit, it does not utilize a depth buffer.

[Triple_sSs]

Sad to hear about this. For the longest time ZDoom has been my go-to source port. As least we still have GZDoom though.
Thanks for all your long and hard work Randi, and good luck with your future projects!

[spank]

Posting for the first time in years just to say thanks Randi for all the continued fun you enabled.