Newbie need help with mapping

[Marlamir]

I know i know i know, this thread is really scrap but i need another help guys. My another problem maybe make you laugh but i fail to make sector with the right size.
i need to resize sector many times. when i imagine some room and i want draw that room in editor the size of the room is really bad and ruined the look of the room and i´m not happy with that, some room is just too big and some is small. i just can´t make the right size sector for some reason. is there some advices for i*iot like me?
Thank you and any advices is appreciated and welcome :)

[Memfis]

I wouldn't say that you're idiot. After years of mapping I still have this problem too.

Luckily in modern editors you can quickly enter the 3D mode, check out the actual size, and then adjust it as needed. So it's not that big of a deal maybe?

Another solution I found for myself is to simply accept the fact that the rooms from your imagination will never feel the same as the rooms that you make in the editor. There's just something fundamentally different about the way you perceive them in your mind, so something will always feel a bit off I think. And maybe it's okay. The important thing is that the idea allowed you to actually start drawing stuff. It doesn't matter whether you turned that idea into reality or not. What matters is that it helped you make progress with your level.

[Marlamir]

truth, final result never be the same as the imagination (for me). but at least make me draw something and make progress like you said.

[Dreamphaser]

I would say before trying to build what u have in mind, do some experiments.
You can look it all up, but experience beats it all. Make a few rooms and
do some testing, Test how tall a figure is, and how it feels ingame when u
walk trough a narrow corridor, haw far things should be when running,
compare textures, sizes and combinations. do the same for a number of roomsizes
and while u are at it test brightnesslevels and perhaps even light effects.
Make sure u got to all the limits u know, how low can u go, or any monster
so that it would still feel right or look good.

Just make all off those different rooms with different tests, make em
distinguishable and run through the map ingame. take some notes if u have to
about what u like, dislike, and what may bring ideas.

U can ofcourse do all of that while making the idea that u already have,
but its just a different approach to learning.

[Marlamir]

Great idea i must say, i definitely going to do that. also looks like experience beat everything with that :)

[riderr3]

I also recommend read this thread https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-editing/71641-doom-mapping-tenets

[Aliotroph?]

If you know what textures you want on an area you can use them as a partial guide to the size of things. For example, all the door textures are either 64 or 128 wide. If you know the size of an area relative to the doors you want then you have a clue even before checking in 3D mode. All the flats in vanilla DOOM are 64x64, so you can think of sectors in terms of the number of floor "tiles" too.

However, the other replies are correct. Getting the feel of an area right takes trial and error - sometimes lots of it. You'll get better with practice, but you'll almost never get what you want the first time. Part of the problem is looking at a world projected onto a monitor feels different than seeing through your own eyes. Game worlds often have to be bigger than what a real space would be in order to feel right.

[Marlamir]

Thanks for the post, really helpful one. also texturing is one of the later thing i did. so basically answer is : practice-practice-practice :)

[Memfis]

To me it would help a lot if the 3D view in Doom Builder had a software mode and similar lighting to vanilla Doom. What I see in the editor is so different from what I get in the game. Though in a way it helps because when I finish the level and start playing it, it actually feels very fresh even though I already know what I'm about to see. It helps me stay excited about my level.

[scifista42]

Memfis said:

To me it would help a lot if the 3D view in Doom Builder had a software mode and similar lighting to vanilla Doom. What I see in the editor is so different from what I get in the game.

Use Eureka Editor then.

[t3hPoundcake]

This isn't because you're a bad mapper or an idiot, it's something everyone goes through. This is probably the biggest reason it takes so long to release maps, your vision in your head might be clear and concise but as soon as you transfer it to the editor, you're now subject to all the real applications of scale and feel. It's one thing to say "Man I have this amazing idea with this huge arena with tall pillars of lava and then in the distance cybers firing rockets at you it's so epic." and then you go to make it in the editor and you have to get everything perfect so it feels right. It takes dozens of compiles and tests just to get the scaling right, and then even more when you add obstacles and other stuff. Your room could be the perfect size empty, but when you add some detail and pillars and things to the middle it suddenly loses a lot of it's size so you have to change it.


What I've learned, even though I'm still a beginner, is that it's really best to keep focusing on one area or room in your map until you have it perfect, so that way as you get further and further on that area, you don't have to worry about resizing it interfering with other parts of the map. Some people like starting with a giant sector like an ocean or just a giant square room and then build inside of that so they can keep a sense of scale to the "outside" of the room, so maybe try something like that. It's just hard to look at a single room or a few rooms and get the scale perfect on the first try when you're surrounded by void space.

It doesn't help either that the editor 3D view is much different from in-game. Especially if you're mapping for vanilla, lighting looks much different, so you'll end up playing with sector properties for a long time. Just don't give up, keep working on one area of your vision and test it as often as you can so you get everything perfect.


Don't get discouraged and give up, there's nothing better than finally getting that fight or room looking perfect.

[Marlamir]

Yep, for sure one of the main factor, sound easy but when i start mapping i have no idea that the biggest problem for me will be something like sector size :-). but i don´t going to give up. With the giant sector is not bad idea, but at least i know now why some maps have this "border" yep playing doom for years and didn´t knwo that :-)