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StormCatcher.77

Doomworld Mega Project 2017 (Final)

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Every single map should be maxable (at least in theory). If a map is not maxable, this map is considered to be incomplete.

 

I have played map33 with both GLBoom+ (v2.5.1.4) and GZDoom (v3.2.5).

 

Demo: mp1733.zip

 

The demo with "gz" is recorded by GZDoom and the other is recorded by GLBoom+. Compatibility settings for GZDoom is Boom (strict).

 

Currently there is no solution to fixing the kill counts in GLBoom+ but it can be set correctly in GZDoom. Just add command "+set dmflags2 67108864". The correct kill count should be 2053 instead of 4114.

 

Also one or two nazis (mostly 2) are likely to get stuck in the pillars.

 

videos:

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, lirui1001 said:

Every single map should be maxable (at least in theory). If a map is not maxable, this map is considered to be incomplete.

I disagree.

 

Maps like map02 (Don't touch!) will never be maxable, due to its style.

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12 hours ago, lirui1001 said:

Every single map should be maxable (at least in theory). If a map is not maxable, this map is considered to be incomplete.

7 hours ago, Ninehills42 said:

I disagree.

 

Maps like map02 (Don't touch!) will never be maxable, due to its style.

 

I would tend to side with @Ninehills42 that a map is NOT incomplete if it's not maxable. The style may dictate something that lends itself to preventing you from doing something. Map 18 of TNT (I think that's the one, and there are certainly others) has a mandatory shootable switch. I think that automatically precludes a pacifist run. Does that make the level incomplete or bad? Not necessarily, it's just a different style.

 

That being said, who knows what people can come up with for a level? I wouldn't think Doom's E2M8 could be finished in a pacifist run. Someone did it. I wouldn't think Doom 2's Map 30 could be finished in a Tyson run? Someone did it. Never discount the ingenuity of those people that play Doom.

 

(Although I recognize that if the point of the level is survive for 1 minute and there's 100 enemies in the level and the level ends after 1 minute, then it's likely not really maxable, no matter how good you are.)

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1 minute ago, Pegleg said:

I would tend to side with @Ninehills42 that a map is NOT incomplete if it's not maxable. The style may dictate something that lends itself to preventing you from doing something. Map 18 of TNT (I think that's the one, and there are certainly others) has a mandatory shootable switch. I think that automatically precludes a pacifist run. Does that make the level incomplete or bad? Not necessarily, it's just a different style.

 

That being said, who knows what people can come up with for a level? I wouldn't think Doom's E2M8 could be finished in a pacifist run. Someone did it. I wouldn't think Doom 2's Map 30 could be finished in a Tyson run? Someone did it. Never discount the ingenuity of those people that play Doom.

 

(Although I recognize that if the point of the level is survive for 1 minute and there's 100 enemies in the level and the level ends after 1 minute, then it's likely not really maxable, no matter how good you are.)

Pacifist is an OPTIONAL way. But If you cannot kill all enemies or some secrets cannot be revealed, then what's the meaning of these enemies and the secrets?

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Just now, lirui1001 said:

Pacifist is an OPTIONAL way. But If you cannot kill all enemies or some secrets cannot be revealed, then what's the meaning of these enemies and the secrets?

I agree with you that if a secret can't be revealed, the secret is meaningless and there's no reason (that I can think of) for it be there. And, generally, yes, you should be able to kill all the enemies in a level. Putting three imps a room that's not connected to the map that you can only get to by cheating does seem pointless, because they can't do anything TO the player. However, in certain levels (like the example of Map 02), where the point is just to survive and not necessarily kill everything, the point of the monsters is to try to kill you and to provide a challenge for you to survive that particular amount of time. It's probably a rather narrow exception, but it is an exception, nonetheless.

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A run of map02. mp1702-152.zip

 

Still UV Max and UV Speed are two VERY BASIC ways to complete a map. Neither of them should be impossible.

 

 

The 1:30 time limit is too short because mostly the monsters come one by one and you have to spend about 40-50 seconds doing nothing. Very dull.

 

To be honest there is a way to fix the map so that it can be done both with UV Max and UV Speed.

 

For example, you can set the exit door to be open once you survive the time limit, but you can stay here and kill the remaining enemies. And you can put a crusher above the 15 AVs or some barrels. Once you kill all enemies teleporting in, the 15 AVs can be killed so that you can get 100% kills and exit this map.

 

PS: maybe they are impossible for vanilla but it is worth a try if possible.

Edited by lirui1001

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On 1/9/2018 at 3:52 AM, StormCatcher.77 said:

Over the past few days, I began to collect the next release by fixing a lot of my mistakes. At the moment, Beta 2 is already on its way, but I will hold the release, because found some problems:


1. The textures indicated in this post by are not in the original wads. I found out that this is not critical for the gameplay on these maps, besides map 03.
2. Map 03 by @TreeSquid can not be started in Chocolate Doom due to the missing texture.
3. Map 04 by @Roofi causes Chocolate Doom 3.0 to crash with an unknown error.

Thanks for the map update. I'll admit I only tested the map for vanilla and Zandorum.

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I think I will do this before uploading the project to /idgames. The problem is that not all maps have author's descriptions. But, I will add what is.

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2 hours ago, StormCatcher.77 said:

I think I will do this before uploading the project to /idgames. The problem is that not all maps have author's descriptions. But, I will add what is.

By author's description, do you mean a backstory for the level? Or just the author's comments about the level, how to play it, etc.? What are you looking for?

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11 hours ago, Pegleg said:

I agree with you that if a secret can't be revealed, the secret is meaningless and there's no reason (that I can think of) for it be there. And, generally, yes, you should be able to kill all the enemies in a level. Putting three imps a room that's not connected to the map that you can only get to by cheating does seem pointless, because they can't do anything TO the player. However, in certain levels (like the example of Map 02), where the point is just to survive and not necessarily kill everything, the point of the monsters is to try to kill you and to provide a challenge for you to survive that particular amount of time. It's probably a rather narrow exception, but it is an exception, nonetheless.

@lirui1001, it occurred to me what you may have meant about incompleteness, especially in the context of secrets and monsters that you can't get to and that can't get to you. At that point, it does seem that the map is missing a door, or a corridor, or a teleport, or something that would let you get to those objects that were previously inaccessible. So, in the case of a unmaxable level to things you can't get to because they're actually not connected (in any way) to the map, then yes, such a map would appear to be incomplete and an oversight by the map's author.

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I mean "comments" of the maps. Authors can tell in it anything.

Most likely, I'll add from the form: (author) [map ##]: Comment text ...

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on map 36 by bonnie: on zdoom sector 2795 (tag 19) not moved to floor. Linedef action for line 571 may be changed to "lower to lowest floor".

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I updated my map and I fixed the problems I was having. This update comes later than I had originally planned (although still before beta 3 or release 1), but sometimes life intervenes and things take longer than you intend, but, regardless, you make it to where you're going eventually. Thanks to @esselfortiumand @Linguica for their help with Chocorenderlimits.

 

Here is the download link: Clash at the Mountain Garrison

 

I made some changes, which are listed here for those interested. Note that with the changes, the level would play differently now than in the videos that @Memfis and @mArt1And00m3r11339 recorded.

Spoiler

Changes (not in order of importance):

 

Changed the title from "Assault on the Mountain Garrison" to "Clash at the Mountain Garrison" and now the title should fit on the intermission screen instead of having the first and last letter letter cut off. Incidentally, yes, I have heard of "Clash at Demonhead" (both the game and the fictional band).

 

Added a switch in the starting area that appears after someone has left the starting area for the first time (whether by the door or through the windows), so someone coming in later can still get out of the starting area, even if the window shutters are closed.

 

Changed the sectors with the Keens so that they will actually work outside of Chocolate Doom.

 

Moved the sectors with the Keens so you can't hear those sectors while they're doing their thing.

 

Removed the teleport action on the ledges so it is possible to fall into the water at the bottom of the ravine. Since there is otherwise no way to get out, I moved the teleport lines that used to be on the ledges down into the ravine.

 

Added an outer set of barricades that raises and lowers.

 

Changed the order of when the barricades are triggered to come up and made their rise fast. The barricades also reach the ceiling now instead of stopping part of the way up.

 

Added monster blocking lines around the barricades to prevent monsters from dying on top of the barricades, thus keeping them from rising all the way up to their full intended height. The blocking lines make the monster behavior look a little bit odd in a few spots, but that was somewhat unavoidable given the structure.

 

Various textures fixed and aligned. I figure no one is really concerned with knowing exactly which textures were changed from one thing to another and which linedefs were set to lower unpegged and which textures were moved over slightly to realign them.

 

Changed the structure of the exit room slightly.

 

Set some enemies to ambush.

 

Ensured that some enemies in side rooms become active instead of remaining idle until they saw you, which defeated how I intended for them to interact with you in the map during play.

 

Added more dead bodies to suggest fighting that had previously occurred during the initial invasion.

 

Added a bit more ammo and weapons for death match play.

 

Ports tested: Chocolate Doom 3.0.0, PrBoom+ 2.5.1.2, ZDoom 2.8.1, GZDoom 3.2.5

 

Known errors:

I'm 99.9% sure I removed all the VPOs (the highest number I could find after a lot of testing in Chocorenderlimits was 126, once, with a max of 111 being far more common). Some of the changes were made to eliminate VPOs that MIGHT occur. But I decided that, to maintain vanilla compatibility, I had to remove them.

Spoiler

It took me awhile to track down the last few VPOs because I wasn't standing in the right spot or walking backward at the right time.

There are still some HOMs that occur in Chocolate Doom due to seg overflows. I couldn't think of a good way to eliminate these without wholesale removing big chunks of the level, which I didn't want to do. Ultimately, they don't crash vanilla Doom, they just look somewhat strange (an imp fireball repeated 15 or 20 times looks a little odd), but they should be gone as soon as you turn. Besides, they're not there in Boom and up.

I haven't found any slime trails. There are a few that were rendered by Eureka's 3D view, but they don't show up during play.

 

Back story: The Mountain Garrison was a base that had been allowed to fall into near-disrepair and tended to be the last destination for those troops that had crossed the wrong commanding officer. It was far removed from almost everything. When the demon horde came they swept through everything, including the Mountain Garrison. From the operations hub, the command staff could see the destruction the horde had wrought. They decided to send you in for quick reconnaissance, with strict instructions to avoid engaging the enemy unless absolutely necessary. Armed with your sidearm, you stepped on to the teleport, with the next stop being the central room of the Mountain Garrison.

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Map 43 by @Marlamir: sectors 1443 and 2375: needs change effect to damage nukage.   Sectors 1410 and 1414 are enterable but not exitable. On secret sector 2169 no any surprise.

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map 51 by StormCatcher.77. I have no idea to exit first domain on zdoom 2.8.1 (possible from sector 2362 (tag 34), script 2 (57)). Doom builder not found sectors with tag 58. 

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@Sasha Sorry, but my map is only for GZDoom 3.2.0 or higher (dynamic light is need to be on). As same as hub map. I'm not test this maps in ZDoom. As i know, ZDoom wasn't support sector portals.

 

And i know about empty secret on @Marlamir's map. But he don't sent any updates, and at this moment I better leave this map as it is.

Edited by StormCatcher.77

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17 hours ago, StormCatcher.77 said:

@Sasha Sorry, but my map is only for GZDoom 3.2.0 or higher (dynamic light is need to be on). As same as hub map. I'm not test this maps in ZDoom. As i know, ZDoom wasn't support sector portals.

 

And i know about empty secret on @Marlamir's map. But he don't sent any updates, and at this moment I better leave this map as it is.

I succesfully finish all maps (except only your map) on zdoom 2.8.1. On map 36 use idclip, I think Bonnie will be check  my note.

I will be play your and my maps on gzdoom in few days.

 

All maps are interesting, I found no bad maps. This project realized succesfully!

 

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9 hours ago, Sasha said:

On map 36 use idclip, I think Bonnie will be check  my note.

I had already uploaded an emergency patch for that bug before you mentioned it, but thank you dearest friend. c:

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@mArt1And00m3r11339, thank you for your this latest video, I hope you enjoyed MAP15!  You're playing on a different source port than I tend to (GLBoom+, I think?) so obviously some areas look a little different than when I was building and testing them, light levels don't fade as much so some areas are brighter and some of the areas that are intended to be highlighted as a little brighter than the surrrounding sectors (e.g. the pillar/pedestal with the rocket launcher in the first cavern) don't stand out as much as I'd expected.  It's very interesting for me actually to see how you play through that first cavern, particularly the fact that you grab the green armour and yellow key and get out of that area without firing a shot; there's a wave of spectres waiting to teleport in at the southern end of that area to hinder your escape that you haven't woken up yet, so of course they just appear later and don't seem to serve much of a purpose except to mill about uselessly down in the muck.  In general during the early part of the map I see you sticking to the shotgun a lot more than I anticipated, I'm wondering now if I need to make the rocket launcher more prominent and provide more ammo as a way of encouraging its early use rather than leaving players with the impression that they're expected to grind away at revenants and hell knights with a popgun.  :)

 

There are a couple of points where I see you going back and forth within a relatively limited area, and I'm not sure if that's just a sign that you're thoroughly checking for secrets and supplies before proceeding any further, or if there are points where the intended progression is genuinely unclear.  In particular I'm thinking of your exploration of the northern part of the map (from when you jump down from the outdoor area into the caverns at 22:53, through to when you jump down the waterfall into the western leg of the map around 28:33) and some of your movements around the collection of the blue key and the activation of the switch beyond the blue door.  Obviously it's too late for me to make significant changes to the map's layout and progression at this stage but if things are insufficiently clear then that's something I can work on in future releases, what are your thoughts here?

 

@StormCatcher.77, I note that when @mArt1And00m3r11339 was playing through this level in their post above, the music track playing was D_RUNNIN when we'd previously discussed the use of D_THE_DA for this level - is there further action I should take here or is this something you can adjust in a future release?

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@TheOrganGrinderAs expected ... I just forgot about this (i even made myself a special note ... but it seems special notes not working :3) It's good that you reminded. I will fix this in the final version. I think, you mean original D_THE_DA from Doom 2?

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On 1/28/2018 at 3:27 AM, StormCatcher.77 said:

@Pegleg Cool! After few days i add your and @bonnie maps in final build and upload it on /idgames.

I realized one small issue I overlooked after watching @mArt1And00m3r11339's video again. I added a trigger to the linedef in the key room in case the player decided to straferun out of the window. I updated the file under the download link: Clash at the Mountain Garrison

 

I wanted to get the change in before you uploaded the final build.

 

By the way, the hub looks incredible!

Edited by Pegleg

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I edited the info file by adding comments to the maps. I ask someone to see if everything is right there. Maybe someone wants to replace / edit their comments. Some maps do not have them at all. Maybe it's time to add?
The final release may be delayed for a couple of days ...

 

dmp2017info.zip

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Map 30: A Sunlust style map with fitting difficulty. I originally planned to make a whole megawad with this map being map 01, but I changed my mind after seeing how much work it took me to make the detailing. So i decided to release the map in dmp 2017. Watch out for the traps, there are quite a few of them.

Oh ye, and sorry for the starting revenant. At least on UV difficulty. Since its the start of the map, i decided to keep it in.

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Map 38: The Eldritch Construct

 

This originally started out as a sort of experimental tech demo for me to learn to utilize some of GZDooms more advanced features as well as to experiment with applied slopes, I think the end result turned out playable and mostly enjoyable.

 

This was designed and tested for GZDoom. It is suggested that the player use freelook to better experience the maps design.

I hope you enjoy this map as much as I enjoyed creating it.

 

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