Game Theorists "Doom Wasn't 3D" video and my refutation

[Kappes Buur]

12 minutes ago, Pegg said:

Pretty sure you can raise and lower floors in Doom Builder during 3D render mode.

 

I did/do not dispute the 3D nature of the game. As a matter of fact I stated that.

 

But show me how you lower/raise the floor in the 2D editor view, as in the my first uploaded image other than

specifying a height. But adjusting the value of the sector height does do nothing to the 2D view itself. For the

record, that view has been mentioned as 2D view countless times here on the Doomworld forum.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Kappes Buur

[Koko Ricky]

If we define a dimension as a combination of magnitude and direction, then we can honestly say Doom is 3D, albeit limited 3D. The fact that a dimension could have limitations doesn't really negate its existence.

 

In string theories, for instance, the magnitude of spatial dimensions beyond three is limited to the point that they curl in on themselves below the atomic scale, whereas the first three dimensions possibly extend forever. However, this might be contradicted by the shape of spacetime at very large distances, at which case even our very large dimensions might curve back on themselves.

 

Another interesting consideration is spacetime itself, a three dimensional field embedded in a four dimensional space (a lower dimensional analogy would be a 2D sheet of paper embedded in a 3D space). Doom's map geometry, from this perspective, could be seen as a 2D substrate embedded in a limited 3D space.

 

The tl;dr of this is that a dimension can exist without having full functionality, at least in a virtual environment.

[Edward850]

On 1/2/2021 at 12:22 AM, Kappes Buur said:

But show me how you lower/raise the floor in the 2D editor view, as in the my first uploaded image other than

specifying a height. But adjusting the value of the sector height does do nothing to the 2D view itself. For the

record, that view has been mentioned as 2D view countless times here on the Doomworld forum.

Did you know that Quake map editors are a 2D view as well? You select which view you want, usually top down. 

 

With your oddly specific criteria, Quake levels are now 2D. Congratulations. 

[Gez]

3D editors generally have four views, a top-down one, a front-back one, a left-side one, and a 3D/free camera one. You switch from one to the other, or even display several at a time, as appropriate to what you're doing.

 

Doom editors do not have a front-back or left-right view because it would be extremely pointless.

[wallabra]

@Gez Only because levels can't store vertex information, they're simplified because the renderer could only support certain arrangements of geometry and the level format was optimized around that, hence the polygons-with-height-info way that Doom uses to store levels.

 

I like UnrealEd 2. It's simple but neat. It's a bit buggy but that just means that users will learn to save often (sometimes, the hard way). Which is good if you ask me!