Question For Experienced Mappers

[phantomDC]

I'm a new mapper with about eight months experience.
Even with my limited ability I try my best to make maps with varied looks and play styles.
Now, with a few dozen maps (maybe three decent ones) under my belt, I still don't really have a sense of what map structures and gameplay styles I excel at most.

This is for experienced mappers and has surely been asked before -

When did you feel as though you came into your own as a mapper?

Did your experience catch up to your vision or... what?

Just a little curious.

[Spectre01]

I'm an experienced mapper with about six months experience and four maps under my belt. I suggest making the type of map and gameplay style that you enjoy playing based on your favourite wads. i.e. I like Painkiller-style arena fights that challenge the player so I make those.

Also: I felt pretty good when I tested my second map and liked what I was playing.

[LordShadowZ]

I'm semi-experienced at this point, close to completing my ninth map. I didn't start feeling confident with my mapping ability until about the sixth or seventh map. It's definitely something that comes with experience, after a lot of trial and error and tons of playtesting.

Finding your style could be as simple as finding the WADs you like most then analyzing and emulating your favorite maps from those WADs. For me, I love the early, more vanilla like WADs without the crazy architecture or overly complicated layouts, so that's what I like to create.

It's very fast and easy to make changes so always go in and playtest to get a feel for a room or encounter and tweak it as needed. When you have a good time playing your own maps, then you're on the right track. Experiment, iterate, and improvise a little, and with time you'll find what design ideas you like most and those will help define your personal style.

[pming]

Hiya!

hmmm.... I guess I'd say I'm a 'very experienced' mapper, who doesn't release maps and rarely finishes them. :)

I've been mapping since around 1994 or 1995. There are a few things I learned about mapping.

*1st* - Do it for yourself FIRST, and others SECOND.

*2nd* - Accept criticism and learn how to use it.

*3rd* - Think artistically when designing...but always keep 'form and function' in mind.

When I map, I'm doing it because I enjoy the process. I enjoy spending countless hours tweaking light levels, adjusting vertexes, playing with textures, and all that. It's fun. It's probably as much (or more) fun for me to map than to play.

I have had some criticism of the two or three maps I've ever made (yeah...told you I do it for myself :) ), and each time it has helped me learn of one of my weaknesses. I still have a problem with monster to ammo/health ratios, for example. But I'm getting better...I think.

The maps I make I enjoy making because I'm thinking of them artistically first. I'll think of some unusual use of a couple of textures, or of lighting, or some other mapping consideration. I'll plop down a room, look at it, and think "Hmmm...this looks like some kind of security holding place". That will lead to a certain light and texture placement. Doing that, I look at it and get a creepy vibe and imagine dark cells...so I'll add really dark cells. Then I'll think of some horror movie or something...and add one cell that flickers. Then I'll think of the player walking up to it and crossing an ACS_Execute script and unleashing a surprise Stealth Demon that wasn't activated until the player crossed that line. This continues on as I build a level, with each room or corridor playing out in my head and ideas popping in and out, and, well, yeah. I just kinda "go with it". Once I'm getting to the end, or not seeing any more new ideas, I'll go back and start to think of form and function. If there was a cell area...how were the doors opened/closed? Where and how? Why is this corridor curved? Why is it straight? Why are there stairs leading up? And I tweak a bit more. Eventually I get some other cool idea, close the map I'm working on, and start a new one with the new idea.

As I said...I map for myself because I enjoy it. :)

I felt I "came into my own as a mapper" when I realized I should be having fun, using my artistic flair, and mapping for myself first, everyone else second. Once I did that, I've never looked back.

[Memfis]

I think I started mapping in 2007 and maybe somewhere around 2015 I began to feel that I have an established direction I'm reasonably confident in and that I'm not doing random confused experiments anymore. I guess I achieved this by reading other people's thoughts on what my style is, as well as just playing various wads and trying to understand what stuff excites me the most. In particular, I feel like Nicolas Monti's Erkattäññe and Favillesco Alpha episodes helped me realize a lot about my preferences. When I played them I was kinda like "wow, this is it!". But still when I publish a new map I usually get kinda worried and I need to get a few outside opinions to fully figure out what to think about it. My self-esteem is low as hell to be honest so this is probably an extreme example, but maybe it's still interesting.

[Dragonfly]

As a mapper of 11+ years, I guess I'm experienced :P

I'd say around 2008 - 2009 is when I found what constitutes a "Dragonfly Map". Everyone does have their own style which eventually becomes apparent, even if it is very similar to other mappers. So by that estimate, 2 - 3 years of mapping.

The things that made me progress as a mapper was the maps of others. In your early mapping stages, play A LOT of other people's levels. Play levels of all varieties, from vanilla to full-on GZDoom mods, and everything in between. By finding out what you enjoy playing the most, you're already one step closer to knowing what you will enjoy mapping. As pming stated, you should always map for your own enjoyment over the enjoyment of others, so making maps you will enjoy playing is crucial!

So lets just pluck a name out the air. Let's say you think Erik Alm's Scythe2 is the world's best mapset - try to learn the nuances of why you enjoy that particular wad so much: Was it the texture themes? Was it the gameplay? Was it the music? Was it the clever traps? I'll bet it was the combination of all of those elements, but when you know more about what you like, you'll really grasp what's fun for your mapping.

And that's how you get a style / how you 'come into your own' if you will - you find what you enjoy and keep making it!

Again, as pming has said already, take criticism into consideration and don't argue with it. You don't have to "do what you're told" all the time, that's not right, but if, for example, someone says "That teleporter trap was totally not fun" or "Perhaps this scene would look better with a more coherent colour scheme", take a note, and if you agree, improve your map or avoid doing the same in your next map.

From personal experience, evidenced in my mod Skulldash, my mapping style for the most part favors strong architecture where possible, in combination with 'short and sweet' gameplay.

I thoroughly enjoy trying new themes, too. Aztec temples, Sci-fi techbases, Space, Volcanoes, Beaches, Underwater, Ice Caves, Cities, Heaven, Hell and everything in between.

Good luck! :D

[Soundblock]

phantomDC said:

When did you feel as though you came into your own as a mapper?

At the third or fourth map I felt like I was beginning to innovate and had developed a cohesive style. (1994)

phantomDC said:

Did your experience catch up to your vision or... what?

In some cases, but for the most part, no. I started out imaging overly ambitious things like mayan city vistas and incredibly detailed medieval objects, but quickly found a lot of the art of Doom mapping is reducing and destilling the spatial visions into chunks more maneagable to the engine. The result was always quite satisying, though different from the initial imaginings.

[40oz]

Your style will always develop. Every once in a while when I use the map editor again, I see my ideas getting a little more and more ambitious. I won a mapper of the year award about 4 or 5 years ago and my mapping style has gotten way better since then.

Best advice I can give you if you want to improve fast is make short single maps with vanilla, limit removing, or boom compatibility and post them on wads&mods. They're low commitment for players which means you will probably get a variety of feedback from different kinds of players, and it will indicate what things you need to work on the most (instead of whatever it is you are telling yourself)

Its hard and risky at times especially if you made a map you think is really good and people start shitting on it, but its a risk that's ultimately going to yield results fast. Make your map, post a download link along with a couple screenshots and a little detail about what source ports you tested it with.

[Jayextee]

40oz said:

Stuff

I'll concur with pretty much everything 40oz has said here, but feel like adding a thing about feedback: it is valuable.

Sometimes the best thing to do is gulp down your pride and really take onboard the things you're being told. If it's a mapper with a good track record in any way (Skillsaw, Esselfortium, mouldy, people you'll see around the Cacowards here adn there) then what you're being told is A++. Would heed again.

On the other hand, not all advice is gold. If you're going for something a little different in your map, and a lot of pointers you're getting will sap an essential thing you're trying to convey, feel free to disregard for the once. Almost as important as good advice at times, is learning to filter what is good advice for you and what is not.

All this said, I'm not really a de facto 'experienced' mapper. Can find stuff from me on idgames from the early 2000's -- but between then and lately I had a decade break from it. YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary, always. ;)

[ZZYZX]

I'm the weird kind of a mapper here who doesn't play others' levels, only makes their own :)
Well of course I did play some singleplayer/coop maps, but I generally do that once in few months and spend most of my Doom time playing either CTF or Duel on Zandronum. The only exception to this being dbzone.wad, which I played every day for quite a good while in 2011.

Now, on topic, I knew the general direction I want to map in ever since I started (and that's like 2010), and mostly developed in that direction. I might've learned some neat lighting solutions, or drawing textures, or modeling, but the general direction hasn't changed and people generally like my screenshots when I post them :P

And when I say "direction", I don't mean the map theme or whatever. It's how I use the monsters, or how I detail my maps, or how I draw terrain, not specifics, but the basic principles used. All this stacks up and constitutes the "direction". Can be techbases, urban or hellish cities, but all that will be produced using the same workflow and be similar in these aspects.

Never really tried to view my maps as technical compositions consisting of concepts and tricks and stuff, I'm generally drawing them like a 3D picture. Guess that's why I don't have many released maps too :P

[Use]

phantomDC said:

When did you feel as though you came into your own as a mapper?

I've also been mapping for my own entertainment since late 1995. I hadn't played many user-created wads up to that point and kept my style 'close to home', as in mostly inspired by Doom-Doom2 and Final Doom. I'm one of the fortunate people that can come up with a nearly complete concept for a map I want to create, so there's nearly no ambivalence or unease about what should go where or how it should flow together. The only time this happens is if I'm out of my comfort zone, usually working with expansive or complex texture packs.

It wasn't until around 2002 I began to participate more in the community, I hadn't shown my work to anyone at that point, and I decided to submit a few maps to the first Community Chest project hosted here on Doomworld. It was stressful to say the least. Both maps were very well received and liked, and when Erik Alm himself complemented my map I really felt like I was doing something good and was on the right track. It was a huge boost to my confidence to say the least. I still stay true to my own enjoyment of Doom levels and I know my style irritates some, but I am happy with my work, even the really old shit. So it's all been a good experience. :)