Voros Posted March 8, 2017 There is an assault tripod on map20 that protects an essential switch in order to progress. This AT is a pain in the ass, because it's positioned in a very tight room (and the switch is right behind it) and pistol starting the map pretty much makes it impossible to defeat it and flick the switch. I say remove the AT from that area or replace it with a baron/pestmeister. Another thing about map20 is the blue key room. I find myself killing all the monsters that teleport in before the blue key even arrives. In order to captivate the player from leaving, keep sending more monsters (at least 3-5 trilobites, because flying monsters give a good challenge) so that the player won't be tempted to leave the room and basically get lost. And add some kind of sign near the lift to show that the blue key is there on the lift. I would've never guessed that the lift had the blue key if I didn't know the purpose of this room. As a sidenote, how about making maps 11 and 20 be significantly harder/lengthier as they are technically the last maps of each episode? These maps are pretty much like the ending maps of episodes like Doom's e1m8, e2m8, etc. Map20 is already fine for it's purpose, but map11 should be made a bit more harder.But then again it's an unfinished map That's all I'm propose. I'm excluding map06 though because its one of the starting maps. 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 12, 2017 The tripod on MAP20 is fine I think, in all skills even. Lower skills get bigger weapons and powerups. Skill 2 should have an invulnerability. On SKill 4 there is a plasma gun and 100 cells, should be enough. E4M2 deep into secret route has a jumppable outside area with ledges and pit. Ledges should not damage, and pit should have damaging slime. Nearby areas already have damaging slime. This allows jumpers to risk falling into death pit, trying to grab a little ammo on ledges. Does not affect vanilla players at all. 0 Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted March 12, 2017 MAP20 is already pretty hard and challenging, at least for skill 4 (ratio relatively close to 1.0)... These logs are very interesting to analyze objectively balance (both absolute and relative numbers of monsters and weapons / ammo) of maps and implementation of skill levels. http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/random/fd1.log http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/random/fd2.log ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MAP20 S1 S2 S3 S45 | M1 M2 M3 M45 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Play modes: Single player Cooperative (4 player) Deathmatch (10 starts) Monsters: Trooper 22 22 21 21 | 22 22 21 21 Sergeant 19 19 20 20 | 19 19 20 20 Chaingunner 4 4 4 4 | 4 4 4 4 Imp 44 44 43 43 | 44 44 43 43 Demon 7 7 6 6 | 7 7 6 6 Spectre 4 4 5 5 | 4 4 5 5 Lost Soul 6 6 6 6 | 6 6 6 6 Cacodemon 2 2 2 2 | 2 2 2 2 Hell Knight 5 5 5 3 | 5 5 5 3 Arachnotron 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 1 1 Mancubus 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 1 1 Baron 3 3 4 6 | 3 3 4 6 Cyberdemon 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 1 1 Weapons: Shotgun 0 0 0 0 | 1 1 1 1 Super shotgun 1 1 1 1 | 3 3 3 3 Chaingun 0 0 0 0 | 2 2 2 2 Rocket launcher 1 1 1 1 | 3 3 3 3 Plasma rifle 1 1 1 1 | 2 2 2 2 Equipment: Radiation suit 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 1 1 Expendibles: Bullets 560 560 550 550 | 900 900 890 890 Shells 184 184 188 188 | 280 280 284 284 Rockets 12 12 12 12 | 40 40 40 40 Cells 140 140 140 140 | 380 380 380 380 Armor points 120 120 120 31 | 120 120 120 31 Health points 266 266 266 266 | 590 590 590 590 Difficulty: Total monster hp 1758 1758 1853 1953 | 1758 1758 1853 1953 Max weapon damage 2368 2368 2386 2386 | 4420 4420 4438 4438 RATIO 0.371 0.742 0.777 0.819 | 0.199 0.398 0.418 0.440 Other info: Average brightness 195 (0=dark, 255=bright) Secrets 0 Nukeage / sectors 29 / 492 Triggers / linedefs 142 / 3058 Reject resource YES 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 12, 2017 I do not take text logs like that too seriously. Really just need to play the maps in all skills to really get a feel for the map. Also more importantly is the target I was setting. 1 tripod, bfg, and invulnerability is easier than 2 pesties with SSG in a small room. Skill 2: only needs "feel" for the battle. Why I leave some hard monsters, but add large powerups, weapons. Skill 3: Normal skill Skill 4: Should be hard, a good challenge even for experienced doom players. That ratio posted. MAP20 has a plasma gun and cell pack right before a tripod. Lots of ammo to seriously damage it. Should have enough spare ammo to easily kill it afterwards. I am not sure anyone else has been posting about the skill levels besides wesley. But I think mine is quite decent to give everyone a challenge, regardless of skill. Perfectly balancing skills is tricky and time-consuming. 0 Share this post Link to post
Voros Posted March 12, 2017 Catoptromancy said:MAP20 has a plasma gun and cell pack right before a tripod. Lots of ammo to seriously damage it. Should have enough spare ammo to easily kill it afterwards. Not in my experience. If I'm playing a continuous game, of course it's easy to kill it, but not when pistol starting, it's not. Since you prefer changing the item placement over monster placement for difficulty, adding a rocket launcher with a box rockets alongside the plasma gun and cell pack would seem like a reasonable way to make it more pistol start friendly. This AT is the only thing in the map that's really frustrating. 0 Share this post Link to post
Catoptromancy Posted March 12, 2017 Putting an RL right before the manc fight manc in cave area seems ok. Then another 2 boxes of rockets near tripod. Maybe in the 2 shotgunner room. 0 Share this post Link to post