Gameplay Discussion and Map Design

There is an assault tripod on map20 that protects an essential switch in order to progress. This AT is a pain in the ass, because it's positioned in a very tight room (and the switch is right behind it) and pistol starting the map pretty much makes it impossible to defeat it and flick the switch.

I say remove the AT from that area or replace it with a baron/pestmeister.

Another thing about map20 is the blue key room. I find myself killing all the monsters that teleport in before the blue key even arrives. In order to captivate the player from leaving, keep sending more monsters (at least 3-5 trilobites, because flying monsters give a good challenge) so that the player won't be tempted to leave the room and basically get lost.

And add some kind of sign near the lift to show that the blue key is there on the lift. I would've never guessed that the lift had the blue key if I didn't know the purpose of this room.

As a sidenote, how about making maps 11 and 20 be significantly harder/lengthier as they are technically the last maps of each episode? These maps are pretty much like the ending maps of episodes like Doom's e1m8, e2m8, etc. Map20 is already fine for it's purpose, but map11 should be made a bit more harder.But then again it's an unfinished map That's all I'm propose.

I'm excluding map06 though because its one of the starting maps.

Share this post


Link to post

The tripod on MAP20 is fine I think, in all skills even. Lower skills get bigger weapons and powerups. Skill 2 should have an invulnerability. On SKill 4 there is a plasma gun and 100 cells, should be enough.

E4M2 deep into secret route has a jumppable outside area with ledges and pit. Ledges should not damage, and pit should have damaging slime. Nearby areas already have damaging slime. This allows jumpers to risk falling into death pit, trying to grab a little ammo on ledges. Does not affect vanilla players at all.

Share this post


Link to post

MAP20 is already pretty hard and challenging, at least for skill 4 (ratio relatively close to 1.0)... These logs are very interesting to analyze objectively balance (both absolute and relative numbers of monsters and weapons / ammo) of maps and implementation of skill levels.

http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/random/fd1.log
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/random/fd2.log

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAP20                            S1    S2    S3   S45 |    M1    M2    M3   M45
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Play modes:
	Single player
	Cooperative (4 player)
	Deathmatch (10 starts)
    Monsters:
	Trooper                  22    22    21    21 |    22    22    21    21
	Sergeant                 19    19    20    20 |    19    19    20    20
	Chaingunner               4     4     4     4 |     4     4     4     4
	Imp                      44    44    43    43 |    44    44    43    43
	Demon                     7     7     6     6 |     7     7     6     6
	Spectre                   4     4     5     5 |     4     4     5     5
	Lost Soul                 6     6     6     6 |     6     6     6     6
	Cacodemon                 2     2     2     2 |     2     2     2     2
	Hell Knight               5     5     5     3 |     5     5     5     3
	Arachnotron               1     1     1     1 |     1     1     1     1
	Mancubus                  1     1     1     1 |     1     1     1     1
	Baron                     3     3     4     6 |     3     3     4     6
	Cyberdemon                1     1     1     1 |     1     1     1     1
    Weapons:
	Shotgun                   0     0     0     0 |     1     1     1     1
	Super shotgun             1     1     1     1 |     3     3     3     3
	Chaingun                  0     0     0     0 |     2     2     2     2
	Rocket launcher           1     1     1     1 |     3     3     3     3
	Plasma rifle              1     1     1     1 |     2     2     2     2
    Equipment:
	Radiation suit            1     1     1     1 |     1     1     1     1
    Expendibles:
	Bullets                 560   560   550   550 |   900   900   890   890
	Shells                  184   184   188   188 |   280   280   284   284
	Rockets                  12    12    12    12 |    40    40    40    40
	Cells                   140   140   140   140 |   380   380   380   380
	Armor points            120   120   120    31 |   120   120   120    31
	Health points           266   266   266   266 |   590   590   590   590
Difficulty:
	Total monster hp       1758  1758  1853  1953 |  1758  1758  1853  1953
	Max weapon damage      2368  2368  2386  2386 |  4420  4420  4438  4438
	RATIO                 0.371 0.742 0.777 0.819 | 0.199 0.398 0.418 0.440
    Other info:
	Average brightness             195 (0=dark, 255=bright)
	Secrets                          0
	Nukeage / sectors        29 /  492
	Triggers / linedefs     142 / 3058
	Reject resource                YES

Share this post


Link to post

I do not take text logs like that too seriously. Really just need to play the maps in all skills to really get a feel for the map. Also more importantly is the target I was setting.

1 tripod, bfg, and invulnerability is easier than 2 pesties with SSG in a small room.

Skill 2: only needs "feel" for the battle. Why I leave some hard monsters, but add large powerups, weapons.
Skill 3: Normal skill
Skill 4: Should be hard, a good challenge even for experienced doom players.

That ratio posted. MAP20 has a plasma gun and cell pack right before a tripod. Lots of ammo to seriously damage it. Should have enough spare ammo to easily kill it afterwards.

I am not sure anyone else has been posting about the skill levels besides wesley. But I think mine is quite decent to give everyone a challenge, regardless of skill.

Perfectly balancing skills is tricky and time-consuming.

Share this post


Link to post
Catoptromancy said:

MAP20 has a plasma gun and cell pack right before a tripod. Lots of ammo to seriously damage it. Should have enough spare ammo to easily kill it afterwards.

Not in my experience. If I'm playing a continuous game, of course it's easy to kill it, but not when pistol starting, it's not.

Since you prefer changing the item placement over monster placement for difficulty, adding a rocket launcher with a box rockets alongside the plasma gun and cell pack would seem like a reasonable way to make it more pistol start friendly. This AT is the only thing in the map that's really frustrating.

Share this post


Link to post

Putting an RL right before the manc fight manc in cave area seems ok. Then another 2 boxes of rockets near tripod. Maybe in the 2 shotgunner room.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now