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MistressPearl

Devils and Demons (A.K.A Super Ghouls and Ghost)

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Hey everyone I'm making a Super Ghouls and Ghost wad for Doom 2. I maybe new to this community and map making but I want to try and bring the hardcore experience our childhoods had.

If you wanna help out or have idea's feel free to ask ^^

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If you want get more attention,you should add screenshots at the first post and mention source port what you`re aiming for. Anyway,it looks good judging by video,but add door textures,play with height and add more texture variations on the walls and ceiling,because it looks very flat and boring to look all the time. Don`t afraid to make level a bit larger.

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Thanx like i said i'm really new to this community and still learning the basics

but the other levels are going to look different that's just how that level is.

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MysteriousHaruko said:

Anyway,it looks good judging by video,

Why are you sugarcoating this for him? It's not even close to being good, it's straight up bad, and that's pretty much acceptable from a map where you learn the basics and are just getting started to mapping, you both also have a long way ahead of you, if you both think that this level looks remotely acceptable.

OP, if you think a different look for a map is going to make it any better; you're wrong, while it'll make it less of an eyesore, it'll still look bland, what you have to focus on before making a "super-tastic NES partial conversion for Doom II" is onto finishing learning the basics by yourself, then making use of the basics to enhance your layouts.
And don't say things such as "that's just how that level is", that's a bullshit excuse to leave a level in and not even try to tune it up or completely revamping it, but whatever, you're still not ready to make a partial conversion for doom, you would most likely make something like this awful sonic themed partial convertion:

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joe-ilya said: you would most likely make something like this awful sonic themed partial convertion.

well fuck you too.... I Didn't need an ass opinion i mean come on its my first map its not like i can crap out a perfect map on day one....

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You should start ripping some sprites and textures from the game if you want to make something about it.



Sincerely it doesn't look good right now , but everybody starts the same way c: , I want to know how this goes !

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thanx everyone ^^

Dude27th said:

You should start ripping some sprites and textures from the game if you want to make something about it.



Sincerely it doesn't look good right now , but everybody starts the same way c: , I want to know how this goes !


how do i do that i luv to know to =3

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Now, disregard the total assholish nature of Joe's post, that was incredibly rude and not how someone should be welcomed to the community.

...

So let me first take the time to say welcome to Doomworld, MistressPearl.

Unfortunately, among the teenage angst fueled crap Joe posted were some good tips that are often posted here on these forums.

1) Learn the basics of Doom mapping with the base doom resources. By that I mean no custom monsters or textures. (I know, I know, where's the fun in that, right?)

2) Try to map for a range of source ports. Start close to "vanilla" (as in, use no source ports or simply chocolate Doom). step it up and use Boom. Learn the new features given to you. Then step it up again and try ZDoom or 3DGE or one of the many other source ports. Familiarise yourself again with the even larger pool of features.

3) Once you've gotten quite used to the stock doom resources and know what source port you enjoy the most, learn what makes a level GOOD. Play a bunch of cacoward winning maps to see what people often rate as the best maps / projects. Start to emulate parts of these projects that you like. e.g. "The interconnectivity of this level was fantastic", "That ambush was really fun", "Even though it was a keycard hunt, I didn't ever feel lost".

4) Now you're a bit better, take a texture pack or two. Play around, make something new and fun. Maybe be daring and add a new monster or two, but don't go overboard - keep it "Doom".

5) Once you feel you've mastered what makes a level fun, how to put together a strong / enjoyable visual style and, equally as important, what NOT to do... That's when you start to make your magnum opus.

tl;dr - welcome to Doomworld. Be less ambitious to begin with, as your end product will be something that may not be very good.
Simply start from the basics, work your way up and THEN get to work on your masterpiece.

If you need any help, there's some great threads that can assist you.

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Dragonfly said:

Now, disregard the total assholish nature of Joe's post, that was incredibly rude and not how someone should be welcomed to the community.

...

So let me first take the time to say welcome to Doomworld, MistressPearl.

Unfortunately, among the teenage angst fueled crap Joe posted were some good tips that are often posted here on these forums.

1) Learn the basics of Doom mapping with the base doom resources. By that I mean no custom monsters or textures. (I know, I know, where's the fun in that, right?)

2) Try to map for a range of source ports. Start close to "vanilla" (as in, use no source ports or simply chocolate Doom). step it up and use Boom. Learn the new features given to you. Then step it up again and try ZDoom or 3DGE or one of the many other source ports. Familiarise yourself again with the even larger pool of features.

3) Once you've gotten quite used to the stock doom resources and know what source port you enjoy the most, learn what makes a level GOOD. Play a bunch of cacoward winning maps to see what people often rate as the best maps / projects. Start to emulate parts of these projects that you like. e.g. "The interconnectivity of this level was fantastic", "That ambush was really fun", "Even though it was a keycard hunt, I didn't ever feel lost".

4) Now you're a bit better, take a texture pack or two. Play around, make something new and fun. Maybe be daring and add a new monster or two, but don't go overboard - keep it "Doom".

5) Once you feel you've mastered what makes a level fun, how to put together a strong / enjoyable visual style and, equally as important, what NOT to do... That's when you start to make your magnum opus.

tl;dr - welcome to Doomworld. Be less ambitious to begin with, as your end product will be something that may not be very good.
Simply start from the basics, work your way up and THEN get to work on your masterpiece.

If you need any help, there's some great threads


Thanx that felt really at home I needed that -hugs- I shall try that plus i played a ton of different wads and that's one of the reasons why I started to want to make stages cause all the amazing stages I played like one of the wads i luv so much and it kinda was a pain was Eternal 3. I thank you for your amazing greeting ^^

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Dragonfly said:

Now, disregard the total assholish nature of Joe's post, that was incredibly rude and not how someone should be welcomed to the community.

Grain of Salt said:

Eh. Don't worry, joe-ilya is an idiot.

MistressPearl said:

joe-ilya said: you would most likely make something like this awful sonic themed partial convertion.

well fuck you too.... I Didn't need an ass opinion i mean come on its my first map its not like i can crap out a perfect map on day one....

I didn't even insult you, fucking assholes!

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You insulted a new member of the community which essentially damages the public image of the community.

There was no need to reply to a new mapper in such a disheartening way and as such, multiple people have commented on what you said. Do everyone a favour and grow up / learn to be more polite when providing criticism. It's not the first time I've seen multiple people call you out on your crap.

Without derailing the thread further, I'd like to wish Pearl the best of luck in their newfound hobby and to try not to get too discouraged - mapping isn't easy!

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Hi MistressPearl, I think you are off to a great start for mapping for your first time. There is always room for improvement and often you'll find that room yourself as you go along and get better at mapping in general.

I'll echo what others have said, joe ilya has been around for years and still hasn't made a good map so it's best to ignore him.

Good luck with your project!

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I haven't watched your video as of yet, that doesnt mean you won't get my support.

joe-ilya said:

I didn't even insult you, fucking assholes!

The irony in this post is strong.

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The thing is, everyone's first maps are crappy, that means my first reply wasn't personal, nor an attack.

I basically told the guy to get experience before coming up with an over-the-top idea for making a wad or he'll end up embarrasing herself/himself, and you're all telling me that I insulted him, well I didn't, untill he gave me this response :

MistressPearl said:

well fuck you too.... I Didn't need an ass opinion i mean come on its my first map its not like i can crap out a perfect map on day one....

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joe-ilya said:

I basically told the guy to get experience before coming up with an over-the-top idea for making a wad or he'll end up embarrasing herself/himself

How can he get experience if he doesn't try first? If he believes he can do it, why not let him continue with his work? It's just a game.

Btw, your original post came out as an insult anyway, whether you believe it or not.

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Read my fucking lines, I said "it's straight up bad, and that's pretty much acceptable from a map where you learn the basics and are just getting started to mapping".

But all you see is : "it's straight up bad".

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It's not words, but the overall tone. Pretty rude for a newcomer.

The tone's like "hey this just bad, alright? Get better first." What's wrong with "it's ok for a newbie, you'll get better."

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I dont know anything of a Ghouls and Ghosts game... So from a outside perspective I can say that that you know way more of Map making and editing then me when I started Mapping :) But I dont think its good to try to recreate a game or something (as i said i dont know) as a WAD for the first project :/ I would recommend you to first learn the complete Basics of Mapping and if you know them learn how to detail :) good sources for Inspirations for that are Scythe, Acient Aliens or Hellbound :D Im sure you will create some cool Maps in the future ^^

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I think I've seen this on Facebook already..

Anyway I'll definitely start with making doom maps first, I spent years of my youth trying to make TC's etc. and in reality if I'd just started with normal mapping then some of my crazy shit ideas TC's "could" of been a reality.

I'm in the position now that if I wanted to make a TC (as you do) I would be much more likely to succeed (to a degree anyway).

And don't bother getting upset and start swearing, over what people say on forums, its counter productive :-)

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It's really a shame so many people dropped into this thread just to state how much of an asshole they think Joe is in front of somebody who knows probably nothing about modern Doom, when what he said was true. Way to cheapen the truth; now you can be just as much of an asshole as you claim Joe is. It might be fantastic for a first attempt, but who is going to feel bad when they encourage the OP to keep investing hours into this project that literally nobody will play because while it may be good for a first attempt, objectively it is bad? Will anybody remeber in 5 months, after this thread has devolved to 5+ bumps in a row by the OP with no responses or seeming interest from the community, that they encouraged this to happen? Big projects when new are a bad idea; stick to the basics and make your foundation before you build your dream house. Mappers compete with one-another for players' time, so the average player will look at this, then look at just about anything else, and decide since they only have time for one, to play the other wad. Joe's advice may have been abrasive, but at least it didn't encourage a newcomer to invest many hours into a project that will fail, which can be quite depressing and discouraging.

It's much the same as if you had two teachers, one tells you that youre doing it wrong and you'll run into problems later, then the other teacher tells you that the first teacher is just an asshole. Chances of you doing things the first teacher's way: close to 0. Chances of your continuing to do things your way and running into said problems later: 99.9%. Literally the same argument parents have about raising their kids when the other parent overrides the first through whatever means in front of the kids.

OP: start small; your first few maps will garner little feedback, so make them small. Less risk/reward in terms of time invested and feedback/improvement received. Put this on the back burner and learn how to make a good, normal Doom map before moving on to something which is a hybrid of 2 game-styles, only one of which you understand. Walk before you run. You need the feedback from the community in order to improve, even if they say nothing new to you; hearing somebody else say something and just thinking/knowing it yourself are two totally different things and the former will push you to improve much more than the the latter. I just had an argument with another doomed last night because he built a level, I gave some feedback, and his repsonse was "I know." "Well, if you know, then why isn't that knowledge present in this map you just built...?"

Feel free to spend the next 20 replies calling me an asshole, but encouraging somebody to fail harder than they should seems like the worse path to me.

t[-_-t]

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Well, to be fair, I don't really like Joe's behavior and the Op has obviously just started learning the ropes of doom modding. I'm not really the kind of guy who is good at giving feedback, so feel free to encourage him and give him advice to improve his work.

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Yeah, as much as I hate to do it, and as ironic as the source is, I have to say that Joe is actually right for once. This is very much a "n00b map". The author really needs to get their feet wet on a few unambitious/"typical" maps to learn the ins and outs of doom level design before making anything "conversion-ish"

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Fonze said:

stuff

Sawing the faces off of live pigs in a brutal matter doesn't suddenly become acceptable because you're doing it for the pork, especially well within the realm of reason to kill them in painless ways before you chop their bodies into pieces.

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Using an existing IP can be a good way to keep focus on theme. SG&G has a pretty distinct theme and tone. I think it's a good idea, but from experience your first 10 or so maps are not going to be up to your standards when you're done.

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