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Sallan

I don't get DOOM II

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Why so much people love DOOM II? it's 99,99% equal to DOOM, few new things and worse level design that doesn't look like earth.

"Hey guys, let's get more rich with DOOM, just a ok game is enough to win more dollar$ of our fans, gogogo. "

"But we have just one guy making the music"

"I dont giv a faek"

As a expasion pack or spin-off for me was going to be much better. (OBS: I don't hate the game, but it's meh for me).

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Compare any doom 2 map to any map in doom e3 and tell me that's a downgrade.

also "few new things" is a pretty severe understatement considering the bulk of the bestiary was added in doom 2: beforehand the only higher tier monster youd have to fight were the awful and unfun baron of hell.

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I agree most Doom 2 maps are severely lacking in comparison. However, the new enemies and weapons are fantastic, and give the community so much more room to work with. I've always seen Doom 2 as more of a standalone expansion. For the mod/WAD community though, it's a tool that I couldn't see the DOOM community doing without.

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I agree that Doom 2 definitely doesn't hold a candle to the first game. It does start out great though, and I would say that the first six maps or so are on par with the quality of the first Doom.

For me, it starts to go down-hill as soon as the maps get bigger and bigger. I usually stop playing around that point.

The new enemies are okay, though I can't say I like the archvile much.

I guess I appreciate Doom 2 more as the most up to date vanilla Doom experience.

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Doom 1 had the better level design
Doom 2 had the better gameplay with the fact that there are more enemy types than just Doom 1's Imp, Imp with more health and flying imp slightly more health.

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jazzmaster9 said:

Doom 1 had the better level design
Doom 2 had the better gameplay with the fact that there are more enemy types than just Doom 1's Imp, Imp with more health and flying imp slightly more health.

And fast imp that doesn't shoot fireballs

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I like the additions to the monster roster and the super shotgun, but I never really enjoyed the levels themselves with the exception of a few.

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Doom 2 has bigger, more open, more challenging maps, twice as much monster variety, the SSG, and a final boss that's actually challenging rather than "circle strafe til it dies". Oh, the secret maps are actually neat little Easter eggs too, rather than "lol have some reject maps" like we got with D1. (Fear is a great map admittedly, but still)

Doom 1 maps have better texturing, better skies and better music, I'll concede that much. Plays like a glorified Wolf3D in comparison to Doom 2 though, mainly due to a lot of the maps doing that "hallway shooter" thing with their design. Also I've made this exact post so many times before, rofl

I wonder if anyone has the patience to dig up the last 3-4 threads that compared D1 and D2?

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grommile said:

Pinkies aren't monsters. They're terrain that bleeds.


Pinkies really work as a passive obstacle, keeping you from dodging out of the way of other monsters.

which is why i like mixing them with archviles :^)

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I actually played Doom Shareware, then Doom 2, then Ultimate Doom in that order.

From a look-and-feel point of view, I thought that Doom 2 was a significant downgrade from Doom E1 - the skies were darker, some nice textures were taken out, and the new textures were all muddy, brown and weird looking. But the bestiary, SSG, and bigger more sophisticated level design made up for it.

Going to Doom E2 and E3 afterwards was...weird. They both looked...spartan compared to Doom 2 - the texturing, though brighter, was not as sophisticated, and I felt like the actual level designs were even more hit and miss than Doom 2. Visually, E3 pulled off the Hell look better than anything in Doom 2, but I simply could not help but miss the SSG and the expanded bestiary.

I don't really care for E4, as it had the drab looks of Doom 2 combined with the lacking bestiary of Doom 1. I put it in the same "fan-expansion" category that I put TNT and Plutonia.

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Sallan said:

As a expasion pack or spin-off for me was going to be much better.

Feel free to think of Doom 2 as an expansion pack then. I'm not sure the difference to be honest.

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grommile said:

Pinkies aren't monsters. They're terrain that bleeds.


Pinkies can play many roles:

- eaters of space
- strategic meat shields
- fodder for fun weapons like the SSG, berserk fist, rocket launcher, and BFG
- threats against a weakly armed player in tight spaces
- in mobs, threats against a well armed player in tight or even not-so-tight spaces
- rocket magnets in pits (worst)
- boss monsters (best)

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okay so maybe Doom II was rushed compared to Doom 1

But you have to understand that back in 1994, things were different.

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I've been growing to appreciate Doom II a lot more over the past year. It isn't nearly as bad as I remember. I still prefer Doom 1 overall, but all four commercial IWADS are really good honestly. I've been having a lot of fun going through them all again.

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Because more monsters (however arguably redundant some may be) and a new gun to shoot them with makes modding infinitely more fun.

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I can't think of a single enemy introduced in Doom 2 that's redundant, except for the Wolfenstein SS which are just easter eggs anyway. I guess the Hell Knights are pretty close, but the fact that Cacodemons fly meant that a basic mid-tier enemy that's landlocked was missing, anyway.

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Ugh, great, another n00b spouting this crap.

Doom2 was better than Doom1 in every respect. Doom2 was the complete game, whereas Doom1 was just the prototype.

Not only that; Doom2 was the best of the iwads, and better than all but a very few later megawads.

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Grazza said:

Ugh, great, another n00b spouting this crap.


Haven't seen that word used non ironically in quite some time. It's just his opinion, man.

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HavoX said:

okay so maybe Doom II was rushed compared to Doom 1.

Actually it was the other way around. Doom 1 was rushed compared to Doom 2.

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Going back to all the Doom games now, I think that in most respects Doom 2 is the superior game. The increased monster variety and additional weapons adds so much variety to the gameplay and strategies required to navigate the levels that it makes the overall experience far better, and I believe this more than makes up for the slightly weaker map design.

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AlexMax said:

Visually, E3 pulled off the Hell look better than anything in Doom 2, but I simply could not help but miss the SSG and the expanded bestiary.


Personally I would say the Spirit World blows away most of E3. If only more of the D2 hell levels were more like that map...

Sick Bow said:

However, the new enemies and weapons

LordShadowZ said:

The increased monster variety and additional weapons


Not sure what Doom 2 you guys have been playing, but the regular version only has one new weapon :P.

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rdwpa said:

Pinkies can play many roles:
...
- fodder for fun weapons like the SSG, berserk fist, rocket launcher, and BFG



No love for the chainsaw? :_(

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NiGHTMARE said:

Not sure what Doom 2 you guys have been playing, but the regular version only has one new weapon :P.


The SSG is so good, it feels like they added more than one.

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Grazza said:

Ugh, great, another n00b spouting this crap.

Doom2 was better than Doom1 in every respect. Doom2 was the complete game, whereas Doom1 was just the prototype.

Not only that; Doom2 was the best of the iwads, and better than all but a very few later megawads.

Pretty much.

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Grazza said:

Doom2 was the complete game, whereas Doom1 was just the prototype.


Actually, I kinda agree with this.

doom1.wad, while enjoyable, was hardly the epic game that doom2.wad is. It was also incredibly incomplete.

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NiGHTMARE said:

Personally I would say the Spirit World blows away most of E3. If only more of the D2 hell levels were more like that map...

Not sure what Doom 2 you guys have been playing, but the regular version only has one new weapon :P.


The SSG adds the equivalent of two extra shotguns. Therefore, two new weapons.

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