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SynthGal

Downgrading map formats

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Hey, I've got a zDoom (Doom in Doom) format map that as far as I can tell is completely vanilla in the way it's run and I picked that format because it's the one that the tutorials on youtube suggested.

However it only runs properly in gzDoom (despite being made in Doom Builder, not gz builder), it's got a shit-ton of texture glitches in zDoom, and since it's presumably vanilla in design I'd rather it be accessible to other source ports. Is there a way to downgrade the format into the standard Doom map format?

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SynthGal said:

(despite being made in Doom Builder, not gz builder)

This has nothing to do with anything, as GZDoom Builder does not create GZDoom format maps, but instead has tools to make using GZDoom features in formats that support them

SynthGal said:

it's got a shit-ton of texture glitches in zDoom

This is likely because you're giving normal linedefs with access to the sky no texture, which draws differently in GZDoom than in other renderers. Take a notice how Doom 2 MAP01 does sky walls by having a sector with a sky ceiling that's lowered to the floor - that works in all source ports.

Also, possibly having midtexs clip through the ground. Hard to say when you've given exactly zero info about the actual errors.

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Also, I'd think about if it is worth the trouble?

Aside from data types and texture limitations.
What's the SEG count?
Is it going to bomb on Vis overflow limits?

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I've only personally run it under gzdoom, I've had a few friends run through it and one reported glitches in zDoom. Turns out "a shitton of texture glitches" (not my words) is just "ROCKRED1 is an animated texture and I didn't even notice it under gzdoom". The only other glitches are these. https://imgur.com/a/GEFBo

Also this is literally my first map so I have no idea about half of what you're saying even if I google it.

Here's the WAD itself if you feel like taking a look. https://www.dropbox.com/s/2tk8parkoh5fozk/baby%27sfirst.wad?dl=0

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Hey,

Looks like it's actually missing a bunch of textures besides ROCKRED1.
There's references but the textures aren't in the wad.

As is, chocolate doom crashed due to these missing textures.
I created a temp texture called ROCKRED1, from that point the first in the list was lite3. Most of them look like they're flats.

What I found strange is if ran in gzdoom or zdoom it shows nothing missing in the console.
But if I run the wad in legacy it shows a list of missing texture in the console.

It's not a very big map so the vis-plan limits or SEG count shouldn't be a problem.
What I'd do is just load Doom2.wad as the only resource and re-texture the wad using only Doom2 as the only texture resource and go from there.

It would be easiest to do a find/replace from within Doom Builder.

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I guess the main point in downgrading to vanilla DOOM format
from Doom in Hexen format is that textures used as flats will no
longer work, and vice versa.


See below

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Yeah I just noticed in XWE that the wad is missing its PNAMES and TEXTURE lumps..

From this point it would probably be easiest to create a new map in DB.
Just make it a box.. place it far from the center.
Save the map.

Now load up your wad, select all.
Copy it.
Open the little box map and paste your map in there, then delete the box.

Save your wad with new name.
Now you should be able to do some texture editing, or maybe even load run the map in chocolate doom now.



Good Luck.

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MR.ROCKET said:

Hey,

Looks like it's actually missing a bunch of textures besides ROCKRED1.
There's references but the textures aren't in the wad.

As is, chocolate doom crashed due to these missing textures.
I created a temp texture called ROCKRED1, from that point the first in the list was lite3. Most of them look like they're flats.

What I found strange is if ran in gzdoom or zdoom it shows nothing missing in the console.
But if I run the wad in legacy it shows a list of missing texture in the console.

It's not a very big map so the vis-plan limits or SEG count shouldn't be a problem.
What I'd do is just load Doom2.wad as the only resource and re-texture the wad using only Doom2 as the only texture resource and go from there.

It would be easiest to do a find/replace from within Doom Builder.


I only used doom2.wad as my resource, though?

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Let me restate that from above:

Creating a map in any G/ZDOOM format allows the use of textures on floors and
ceilings and flats on walls. Therefore, playing this map in G/ZDOOM everything
is displayed properly.

However, playing this map in a strictly DOOM compatible port or loading this map
into Doombuilder2 as an original DOOM format or BOOM format map you loose
that capability. Therefore there will be HOMs wherever a texture was applied to
floor/ceiling and/or flats applied to walls.

Then, either use different textures/flats from those available, in which case you need
to do nothing else, or design new images and place them between P_ or F_ markers.
Flats must be 64x64. In the case of textures you also need to create TEXTURE1 and
PNAMES lumps to account for any new textures.

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There are 3 map formats: Doom, Hexen and UDMF. If your map is in "ZDoom : Doom in Doom format", then it's in Doom format, which is already the simplest format that couldn't possibly be downgraded. The thing that you're talking about is not format, but compatibility. Compatibility depends not only on map format, but on features actually used within the map.

Map editors provide "Game Configurations" that make certain features visible and usable, according to target port / compatibility level. If you want your map to be vanilla compatible or at least "limit-removing" (vanilla without the original engine's limits), it's best to develop it under a Game Configuration that will only let you use vanilla compatible features. It's not actually necessary, because the map would be saved the same way under any Game Configuration that uses the same map format. But it's a good thing if you want to avoid using non-vanilla-compatible features by accident.

Since your map is in Doom format, you can easily change the Game Configuration from "ZDoom : Doom in Doom format" to just "Doom 2", without risking breaking the map. However, if the map used ZDoom-specific features, they will now appear as "unknown" or "invalid" in some way in the editor. Load the map in ZDoom and the features will still work, this is just the editor's way of telling you that the target compatibility is not satisfied, that is, the map might not work properly in all ports of the given compatibility level.

Now, if you actually want to achieve vanilla compatibility, firstly fix all of these "unknown" line/sector specials, textures used on floors and flats used on walls, secondly try to avoid design choices known as "zdoomisms" that appear usable in the format but will result in not properly playable maps in other ports (like using S1/SR/W1/WR/G1/GR linedef actions with tag 0, which works much differently in ZDoom than in vanilla), and finally, test your map in the actual lowest intended compatible port (vanilla engine or Chocolate Doom if you want pure vanilla compatibility, PrBoom-plus -complevel 2 if you want limit-removing compatibility, PrBoom-plus -complevel 9 if you want Boom compatibility...) to ensure that you didn't miss any zdoomism or whatever quirk that only manifests in some ports.

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This is just IMO, but it seems that it would be much easier and cleaner to make a new map (from scratch) based on the one you have. Then it would be without a doubt Doom only and run on everything.
Of course unless you would rather spend more time re-rigging all the action/data types and tags, and textures, just so it would be compatible with Doom.

In other words, the time that it would take to "fix" that map, you could have made a new one.~ which would probably turn out better than the original version heh.
Not that the original was bad or anything, it's just that, you know, practice makes perfect.


Cheers

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SynthGal said:

The only other glitches are these. https://imgur.com/a/GEFBo

First screenshot: Those are slime trails. You can usually fix them by adding unnecessary vertexes or moving the existing vertexes around a little.

Second screenshot: That will happen with any tall enough middle texture between two sectors with the same floor and ceiling height. You can fix it by making the floor or ceiling slightly different on one side, or just by using a middle texture which isn't tall enough to extend into the floor.

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Grain of Salt said:

First screenshot: Those are slime trails. You can usually fix them by adding unnecessary vertexes or moving the existing vertexes around a little.

It might also be unclosed sectors, which can usually be fixed by clicking on the affected sectors while in "Make Sector" mode (not to be confused with regular "Sector" mode). Prevent them from happening in the first place by never deleting linedefs between different sectors before joining/merging the sectors first.

Grain of Salt said:

Second screenshot: That will happen with any tall enough middle texture between two sectors with the same floor and ceiling height. You can fix it by making the floor or ceiling slightly different on one side, or just by using a middle texture which isn't tall enough to extend into the floor.

Or by making the sector light level on either side of the linedef different from the light level on the other side.

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scifista42 said:

Or by making the sector light level on either side of the linedef different from the light level on the other side.

Oh, I didn't know you could do that. Neat!

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