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Mechadon

Doom 64 for Doom II - /idgames link is up

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1 hour ago, Brewtal_Legend said:

I think that combined with the rounded shape frame of the current status bar would look really cool. 

I could provide the PSD of that status bar in case anyone wants to finish it.

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4 hours ago, Brewtal_Legend said:

Regarding the status bar, The current one looks pretty nice. I kinda liked the bloody one, but I can see why it's kinda hard to see in some spots. 

 

Personally, I would really like to see one based on the stone/marble texture like the one used in the current intermission/tally screen (the one shown on page 9). I think it would fit really well with the darker and less techy vibe of doom 64.

I was laughing a few hours ago because I was literally knee-deep in the pixel mines working on a new bar with this general idea :P.  I made plans to try and make an alternate statusbar that was more hell-themed, but at the time I wasn't sure how to approach it.  But after Cage made the marble TITLEPIC, using marble as the base seemed like a pretty cool idea.  It's funny that I was working on this exact thing just as everyone was starting to talk about it!

 

Anyways I just finished it up a few minutes ago.  Here's a quick preview and download links to check it out:

 

3WW7q1Zl.png

D64D2 hellbar test v1 (widescreen version here)

 

I tried working in some fleshy bits and I think it came out pretty good.  I was going to try and do more, but it ended up looking a little too busy (pretty much the same problem as before with the tech bar).  I also wanted to have a more gothic-style font for the labels; they came out just a little chunky, but so long as its readable then that's probably ok.  I could probably swap out a more Doom-like font without too much trouble.

 

Anyways, lemme know what you guys think!

 

@CoTeCiO About the music stuff you mentioned, anything that is broken is beyond my knowledge and skill to fix.  So unless someone can address them (like yourself), they'll either have to be left as-is or replaced entirely.  Unfortunately music is one of the things I'm completely useless at :P.  Also is there a particular reason why the title music needs to be 11 seconds long?  I know the demo will cut it off in any port that can play them, but in ports like ZDoom the track can keep playing.  Anyways, I'll check out the new tracks you uploaded, thanks for that!

 

Edited by Mechadon

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I think I'm just not very sold on the idea of combining radically different themes in one bar. It's distracting. Maybe if it was all marble.

 

The previous one was a good middle ground, because the gradient texture allowed a smooth transition between two parts of the bar that looked different. It was simple and clean.

 

5 hours ago, CoTeCiO said:

Yep, that one.

Fun idea, considering that I apparently love to connect shit that wasn't previously connected. But I don't think I'll be making any serious changes at this point.

 

5 hours ago, CoTeCiO said:

Also, I played until MAP12 and so far everything looks and plays fine except for a HOM I found in MAP08:

MAP08 had a few of those. But it's being reworked right now.

 

5 hours ago, CoTeCiO said:

By the way, I absolutely loved the small areas next to the switches telling you what they do in MAP09, they look awesome!

Thanks!

 

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1 hour ago, Mechadon said:

Also is there a particular reason why the title music needs to be 11 seconds long?

 

Well, the title screen in Vanilla lasts approximately 11 seconds. I know ZDoom continues playing the music with the rest of the screens as it fails to play the demos, but I think Vanilla behavior should be the priority. A solution could be using ZMAPINFO to define a different title MIDI and leave the short one for Vanilla and the long one for ZDoom.

 

About the broken stuff, unfortunately I don't know how to fix the current D_READ_M without having to redo it entirely. There's probably a way to do it, but I don't know how. So the two things I could do are either providing an entirely new song (which I did) or redoing the old one.

 

Could you let me know when the final tracklist of the mod is done? I will need to fine-tune the compatibility of my songs so they sound ok on FM synth.

 

I like your take on the status bar, but I'm not very keen of the font used, I insist it would look better with the standard font.

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24 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

I think I'm just not very sold on the idea of combining radically different themes in one bar. It's distracting. Maybe if it was all marble.

 

The previous one was a good middle ground, because the gradient texture allowed a smooth transition between two parts of the bar that looked different. It was simple and clean.

Hmm, do you mean the fleshy patch to the right?  Someone had mentioned doing something like that previously in the thread, and I thought it was a neat idea.  Now whether or not much execution does it justice is another thing entirely.  Personally I kinda like it.

 

I agree with you by the way, I think I still prefer the tech bar overall.  At this rate though, one of them will probably be packaged along as an extra in the final release.

 

16 minutes ago, CoTeCiO said:

Well, the title screen in Vanilla lasts approximately 11 seconds. I know ZDoom continues playing the music with the rest of the screens as it fails to play the demos, but I think Vanilla behavior should be the priority. A solution could be using ZMAPINFO to define a different title MIDI and leave the short one for Vanilla and the long one for ZDoom.

Ok, I actually just wanted to make sure that there wasn't some sort of undefined behavior with tracks longer than the title screen (vanilla has lots of weird quirks so I don't make assumptions).  Having an extended version for other ports would be nice, but probably not worth it just for ZDoom (also I'm not sure that's possible with ZMAPINFO?  Can't seem to find a way to define that...).  Anyways yea, I don't see a reason to not use your updated track, so I'll get that in.  I'll also use your D_READ_M track too, at least for the time being.

 

16 minutes ago, CoTeCiO said:

Could you let me know when the final tracklist of the mod is done? I will need to fine-tune the compatibility of my songs so they sound ok on FM synth.

Of course!  Ideally we're a within week or two from releasing, and I don't think that the track list will change all that much (apart from replacing any broken tracks).  You might just want to eyeball your currently used tracks while there's time.

 

16 minutes ago, CoTeCiO said:

I like your take on the status bar, but I'm not very keen of the font used, I insist it would look better with the standard font.

I'll definitely swap it out to see how it looks, thanks for your input :).  The font was the big thing I wasn't sure about, though I'm curious what other people think as well.

Edited by Mechadon

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1 hour ago, Mechadon said:

I'll definitely swap it out to see how it looks, thanks for your input :).  The font was the big thing I wasn't sure about, though I'm curious what other people think as well.

 

I'm not big a fan of the font, either. Looks a little western to me.

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11 hours ago, Mechadon said:

I'm not sure that's possible with ZMAPINFO?  Can't seem to find a way to define that...

Yep, there's a way to do it, on the gameinfo definition, something like this:

 

gameinfo

{

     titlemusic = "D_<somethingsomething>"

}

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 @Mechadon That marble status bar looks way better than the STARTAN one (imho), not that I dislike STARTAN or any such blasphemous thing.

 

I do agree that the font doesn't fit very well, it would look more at home on a saloon window or the side of a stage coach. Maybe the letters could be etched into the marble, similar to the bas-relief gargoyle textures.

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19 hours ago, Prologue-9 said:

I'm not big a fan of the font, either. Looks a little western to me.

Great, now I can't unsee the font as anything other than some sort of wild west lettering :P.  The gothic style I was attempting doesn't work very well at that low of a resolution, and honestly it probably would have been difficult to pull off even with a better font.

 

9 hours ago, Megalyth said:

I do agree that the font doesn't fit very well, it would look more at home on a saloon window or the side of a stage coach. Maybe the letters could be etched into the marble, similar to the bas-relief gargoyle textures.

This was my original plan, but I had a really hard time pulling it off and keeping it legible.  However I've just updated it and I tried to go with this method again.  I think using a smaller/simpler font design made it a lot easier to pull off.

 

So yea, I had the time today to update the bar.  Thanks again for the feedback guys!  Here's what it looks like now:

QTzO007l.png

D64D2 hellbar test v2 (widescreen version here)

 

So the font was changed to something more Doom-like, and its definitely much better.  Like Megalyth suggested, I tried sinking the letters into the marble; it looks legible to me, but let me know what you guys think.  I also spent some time doing proper pixel pushing for some of the shadows/highlights, and made a few other minor tweaks.  Definitely let me know of any other critiques you guys have.  I want to make sure its good to go if we end up using it.

 

@CoTeCiO Thanks for that info!  I haven't touched ZMAPINFO much so I didn't know that was possible to do.  Everything should work out regardless of that though because I ended up using DILDOMASTER666's title music for MAP33, so its at least still being used in some capacity.

 

*edit*

I cleaned the bar up a bit more and reuploaded it; link should be the same.  I also took a screenshot of it with one of the D64D2 maps for better context.

Edited by Mechadon

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I liked the old statusbar better, it gives more theme to it especially bits around ammo counters and such. This one looks like mix of  MM2 and HR. Not that marble is totally out of there but doesn't blend as fine with whole thing and on screen action. It's 'heavier' to move and carry, looking around into it if you get what I mean.

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Can we maybe unfuck the non-blocking one-legged hanging dude in DEHACKED? It seems to have wrong height which makes it half-buried in the ceiling.

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Yea we can do that.  I always forget about that weird sprite offset until I use it.  I'll be sure to get that fixed in the v8 release.

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We'll burn it down, burn it down, they won't even recognize your corpse.

 

alpha quadrant

 

Gameplay was hastily cobbled together with barely any testing, and no coop, so it's not final (maybe tomorrow). Watch the loading order, because:

 

- There's a DEHACKED lump and a bunch of sprites. Based on v7. Fixed that height. Also changed the non-blocking flaming barrel into actual flames. Maps that stuck barrels into holes in the floor will break, of course.

- One additional texture.

 

Jesus, what a mess. If you think there's something wrong with how it looks - it's probably because there is.

 

Chocorenderlimits keeps telling me that monster closets outside the map are close enough to make audible sounds. I don't know how far I need to move them. They're silent in PrBoom+.

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21 hours ago, Mechadon said:

Great, now I can't unsee the font as anything other than some sort of wild west lettering :P.  The gothic style I was attempting doesn't work very well at that low of a resolution, and honestly it probably would have been difficult to pull off even with a better font.

 

This was my original plan, but I had a really hard time pulling it off and keeping it legible.  However I've just updated it and I tried to go with this method again.  I think using a smaller/simpler font design made it a lot easier to pull off.

 

So yea, I had the time today to update the bar.  Thanks again for the feedback guys!  Here's what it looks like now:

QTzO007l.png

D64D2 hellbar test v2 (widescreen version here)

 

So the font was changed to something more Doom-like, and its definitely much better.  Like Megalyth suggested, I tried sinking the letters into the marble; it looks legible to me, but let me know what you guys think.  I also spent some time doing proper pixel pushing for some of the shadows/highlights, and made a few other minor tweaks.  Definitely let me know of any other critiques you guys have.  I want to make sure its good to go if we end up using it.

 

@CoTeCiO Thanks for that info!  I haven't touched ZMAPINFO much so I didn't know that was possible to do.  Everything should work out regardless of that though because I ended up using DILDOMASTER666's title music for MAP33, so its at least still being used in some capacity.

 

*edit*

I cleaned the bar up a bit more and reuploaded it; link should be the same.  I also took a screenshot of it with one of the D64D2 maps for better context.

I like it. personally, I like the ammo box being different from the rest of the bar. The only thing I notice is the text in the ammo box is kinda blurry. And maybe some different coloring for the numbers?

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Just a heads-up guys.  With MAP08's updates almost finished, build v8 should be releasing very soon!  Obviously I don't have an exact date, but expect it to drop shortly after Da Werecat is able to put the final touches on MAP08.

 

Just to note, v8 will not have the new Motherdemon sprites in it; you'll still see the flying Mastermind for now.  Fingers-crossed, Cage will be able to finish up the sprites soon, and they will get released when the project is complete.

 

I'm also going to include the marble statusbar in this build so I can get more feedback on it.  I know there's a bit of a debate as to which is more appropriate for the project, so at the very least both will be released when the project is complete.  I just need to get a better feel for which one should be included in the main wad.

 

@Da Werecat Thanks a ton for the update, I was really looking forward to it!  And I wasn't disappointed either, I think you did a fantastic job!  I wasn't sure what to expect after reading your post, you made it sound like it was going to be a mess :P.  Alpha Quadrant was one of my favorites back in the day, and I love how you've handled it here. Nice job!

 

I have only a few things to give as feedback.

 

yyDWKNmm.png

I had a chuckle at this poor Baron getting stuck here.

 

JFtAbsFm.png

Maybe put a switch here instead of having it be walk-over activated?  I feel like a switch would be a little bit less ambiguous (nice idea to offer a view port to show the player what's going on there).

 

I would probably mark the lines in this secret hallway as hidden (and the outer walls marked as 1-sided).

 

The BK fight with the Revs/Archvile was really awkward because of the raised platforms.  I like that you added a teleport that opens up and leads back up to the room with the BK.  Is there any way you'd be able to have those platforms lower after the player grabs the BK, so that fight isn't so cramped?  Though then again, it made the fight a lot easier too...

 

Anywho, I still need to replay it and get all of the secrets and 100% everything.  But I'm definitely happy with it :)

 

I've got your other stuff merged into the main build too by the way, thanks!

 

5 hours ago, Brewtal_Legend said:

I like it. personally, I like the ammo box being different from the rest of the bar. The only thing I notice is the text in the ammo box is kinda blurry. And maybe some different coloring for the numbers?

Thanks!  The ammo box letters are meant to look like that.  It was my attempt to make it look like the letters were 'burned' into the skin.  It's still legible I think, otherwise I'd change it up.

Edited by Mechadon

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33 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

Thanks a ton for the update, I was really looking forward to it!  And I wasn't disappointed either, I think you did a fantastic job!  I wasn't sure what to expect after reading your post, you made it sound like it was going to be a mess :P.  Alpha Quadrant was one of my favorites back in the day, and I love how you've handled it here. Nice job!

It's mostly detailing.

 

When I finished revamping Holding Area, I said I thought I was going overboard. By the time I finished Research Lab, I thought Holding Area was fine, but Research Lab was too much. Now I think Research Lab was decent, but boy did I mess up Alpha Quadrant.

 

It'll probably pass. I hope.

 

Anyway, thanks.

 

36 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

I had a chuckle at this poor Baron getting stuck here.

I was afraid of that. One way to fix it would be to make the switch lines block monsters. But I added a fourth imp spawner right on top of it - I'll probably have to go with three again.

 

38 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

Maybe put a switch here instead of having it be walk-over activated?

Unfortunately, it uses stacked linedefs to activate multiple tags at once. I did it specifically to avoid voodoo. I figured a locked room with just a health bonus will look suspicious enough to not leave right away.

 

40 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

I would probably mark the lines in this secret hallway as hidden (and the outer walls marked as 1-sided).

I actually wanted to do that. I will now.

 

Outer walls are already marked properly.

 

41 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

Is there any way you'd be able to have those platforms lower after the player grabs the BK, so that fight isn't so cramped?

There is, and I tried it. When I tested it, the lift action on one of the tags didn't finish yet, so not all platforms lowered, and I removed the feature as a result. But I think I have an idea for how to do that semi-elegantly, I'll need to see how it goes.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

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On 04.02.2018 at 1:16 AM, Mechadon said:

I know there's a bit of a debate as to which is more appropriate for the project, so at the very least both will be released when the project is complete.  I just need to get a better feel for which one should be included in the main wad.

I think first impressions matter. MAP01 is when people are going to notice new stuff like status bar, and it's a techbase. By the time hell comes, most people will stop paying attention.

 

updates

 

Alpha Quadrant - mostly gameplay-related changes. I thought this map was harder than 9 and 10 combined. Probably still pretty hard, but I added some supplies and removed the nastiest threats (or moved them to coop). I almost liked its KNOW WHERE STUFF'S AT OR DIE attitude towards pistol-starters, so I was almost sorry to optimize some of the less desirable routes. But taking a detour to grab the RL is still very important for the pit room, especially on UV.

 

The central platform will lower now, but the pillars stay.

 

Holding Area - removed the gibs from under the soul sphere. There was no symmetry with the stock sprite offset. Nothing I stuck there looked particularly great.

 

Research Lab - threw in some more keys, because why the hell not. Also ultimately decided to repaint those doors.

 

Final Outpost - some texture alignments and a couple of lines. I planned more, but changed my mind.

 

---

 

Forgot to say that Alpha Quadrant requires compat_sectorsounds 1. Actually, considering that (I'm assuming) a lot of rattlesnakes were fixed, this might be useful for the entire mapset.

 

---

 

And of course I forgot to hide some lines.

 

update2

 

Edited by Da Werecat

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Alrighty guys, here's test build and resource v8!

 

D64D2 Build V8 [4.4M] (Changelog)

D64D2 Resource V8 [914K]

 

Here is the work-in-progress readme file (also included in the zip): d64d2-wipreadme.txt

 

This is meant to be the last test build before the final release.  All of the maps should be feature complete now, and we've fixed a ton of bugs.  I spent some time adding a few extras like GLDEFS for the new objects and so on.  The changelog is pretty big for this update, so go check it out if your interested.  Also this build represents a feature-lock, so we're going to avoid adding anything substantial to the maps (unless its a really good idea).

 

Because this is the last build [probably], we really need to hammer out any bugs that are lingering.  So that means lots of testing!  If you have feedback to leave or you want to test, now is the time to do it.

 

What is left to do?

  • Add Cage's Motherdemon sprites when he finishes them up (shouldn't take too long, but I'll keep you guys up to date).
  • Add the super-secret that _bruce_ is working on.
  • Decide which statusbar will be added to the main wad (other bar will be included as an alternate).
  • Finish up the readme file.
  • Record short demos for the opening carousel (requires finalized maps) (also get in touch with me if your interested in doing a demo).
  • Address any bugs and feedback that come in from this build.
  • Fix any other bugs that are known at this time, but haven't been addressed for one reason or another.

As usual, please let me know if there are any issues with this build, and I will get a fixed version up as soon as possible!

 

14 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

I think first impressions matter. MAP01 is when people are going to notice new stuff like status bar, and it's a techbase. By the time hell comes, most people will stop paying attention.

This is what I was thinking as well.  The tech bar fits in with the tech maps, and obviously those are the first maps in the set.  So I'm thinking it would make sense to include it as the standard bar, and then players can either swap out the hell bar later on in the game, or those who prefer the hell bar overall can just load it right from the get-go.  For the time being though, I've included the hell bar in the main build so more people will see it and, hopefully, give some feedback.

Edited by Mechadon

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16 hours ago, Mechadon said:

Decide which statusbar will be added to the main wad (other bar will be included as an alternate).

I prefer the first one (STARTAN style).

 

16 hours ago, Mechadon said:

This is what I was thinking as well.  The tech bar fits in with the tech maps, and obviously those are the first maps in the set.  So I'm thinking it would make sense to include it as the standard bar, and then players can either swap out the hell bar later on in the game, or those who prefer the hell bar overall can just load it right from the get-go.  For the time being though, I've included the hell bar in the main build so more people will see it and, hopefully, give some feedback.

Hmm...

 

doom-logo.png

 

Maybe try to do a status bar like the Doom logo? I mean, half part is techbase, other half part is a hellbrick.

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On Page 17, CoTeCio posted a metal STBAR (but no STARMS so I made one myself)

I've tested it out and it really does fit well for the entire project, more than the marbar and basebar could hope having only their own territories.

CoTeCio, if you have the STARMS of your old version, maybe you should sent it on in?

 

 

STBAR.png

STARMS.png

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It is a nice bar, but I'm trying to stay away from using assets that are from other games (and specifically from Doom 64).  We've done a good job at remaking all of the assests that were pulled from Doom 64 so I probably won't be adding anything new from it.  Also I think it fits the theme of the project to use a texture from vanilla Doom for the statusbar, much like the original game does.

 

4 hours ago, DeXiaZ said:

Maybe try to do a status bar like the Doom logo? I mean, half part is techbase, other half part is a hellbrick.

Basing a bar directly from the Doom logo could be a cool idea if done right.  I have a feeling that it would be difficult to keep it from looking horribly busy though.  It would certainly be hard for me to pull off I think.  Even just using a tech and a hell texture is difficult to do without it looking really unbalanced (I tried once already with the tech bar and it was kinda bleh).

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I'm a random 3rd-party observer here, but I just got a look at the STARTAN statusbar, and holy cow, that's absolutely fantastic. Please keep it -- it's the best choice by far.

 

Side-note: there have been some voices about the bar that seem to be some sort of variant of "it should match Doom64's style", but that just doesn't make sense in the project's context. This project brings Doom 64 maps over to Doom 2's aesthetic, not the other way around.

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On 2/6/2018 at 1:01 PM, StalkerZHS said:

On Page 17, CoTeCio posted a metal STBAR (but no STARMS so I made one myself)

I've tested it out and it really does fit well for the entire project, more than the marbar and basebar could hope having only their own territories.

CoTeCio, if you have the STARMS of your old version, maybe you should sent it on in?

 

 

STBAR.png

STARMS.png

Yeah, sure! Here's the whole thing in a newer version that has the classic font instead of the taller Doom 64 version (that font looked too tall in Vanilla).

STARMSN2.png

STBARN2.png

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I quickly played through the 2nd half of the wad on v8.

 

map21 - the final boss is still appearing in this map after you hit the switch in the center area that spawns all the cybers.

map33 - the music is very low, almost inaudible on zdaemon.

Edited by damo2k

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21 hours ago, damo2k said:

I quickly played through the 2nd half of the wad on v8.

 

map21 - the final boss is still appearing in this map after you hit the switch in the center area that spawns all the cybers.

map33 - the music is very low, almost inaudible on zdaemon.

Thanks for the help as always!

 

So I double-checked MAP21 because I recently updated the gameplay with _bruce_ for this build.  There's not a single Spider Mastermind in the entire map (that's what the Motherdemon replaces in both the dehacked and the decorate).  Any chance you could do a bit of digging to see what's going on there?

 

Also for the MAP33 music, ZDaemon wouldn't load the track at all for me (it just uses the previous map's music).  I guess it doesn't read the MAPINFO entry?  (just noticed in the console, it ignores the entire MAPINFO lump when it comes across one of the compat options...oh well).  In other ports like Chocolate Doom, the intermission music plays (D_READ_M).  There's been quite a few issues reported with the music in ZDaemon, but I've only run into a couple...anyway, no idea what to do here either.

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I don't know ZDaemon. Does it read a Language lump? I know you can set the music for a MAP33 by adding

 

MUSIC_MAP33 = "MAP33";

 

in the Language lump, where the music entry is named D_MAP33. I think there's a way to add that code to Dehacked, too, but I'm not sure what it is.

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Thanks for the help @EffinghamHuffnagel.  Unfortunately that doesn't seem to work.  There might be a way to do it in Dehacked and I'll give it a look once I get around to editing it again.

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Apologies Mechadon, I accidentally had build v7b loaded... woops!

 

We played map16-map30 on v8 tonight. Some observations..

 

map24 - Player can get stuck here:

vN8mM0N.png

8ozIwck.png

 

map24 - seems if you use ACS scripts to get past that blue/red wall, the teleport does nothing.

oQj6Yq5.png

 

map24 - not sure if it is intensional but the midi sounded a bit strange, like industrial, almost grinding or something.

 

map28 - player can get stuck in here

yquAVhq.png

 

map30 - player can get stuck in here

YfsjJWK.png


map30 - monsters spawn in at this location, even after we use all 3 keys. Is this intensional?

dyEGacb.png

 

In any case, these maps were all really enjoyable to play in multiplayer.

Edited by damo2k

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Krawa on Zdaemon irc said:

 

problem with D64D2_build_v8.wad is: Unknown keyword 'compat_crossdropoff' in mapinfo. ZD ignores rest of mapinfo

 

maybe this is effecting the music.

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