Doom 64 for Doom II Respawned! - Build V3 out now!

Doom 64 for Doom II: Respawned!

Welcome to the new Doom64 for Doom II project thread! Some of you probably already know about this project. For those that don't, here's a bit of background. Back in May 2013, Death Egg started this project which eventually turned into a community effort. Some time later, BaronOfStuff took over. Unfortunately it seems that the project was abandoned, so Death Egg stepped back in and has handed over the leadership role to me.

The basic premise of this project is to recreate Doom 64's maps using Doom II's assets. This isn't a strict 1:1 recreation though since many of the effects in Doom 64 are impossible to replicate in vanilla Doom II. Instead the goal is to try and recreate the maps in a faithful way while getting creative to get around vanilla Doom's limitations.

If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to post them!


Info & Guidelines

  • For Mappers:
    • Please name your map submission/update like this to make my life a bit easier: AuthorName-MAP NAME-Version## (eg. Mechadon-MainEngineering-V3)
    • Use Doom II as your Iwad.  We're using stock textures/flats only (I can make exceptions, just let me know what you need).
    • Base your map off of the Doom 64 source material (I recommend checking out Doom64EX).  You don't have to be super exact here!  Just try to stay faithful in the areas that count.
    • Maps must be vanilla compatible! Do not use Boom or ZDoom features, and make sure it fits within the static limits (also see this).
    • Be sure to use the Resource wad (see: Releases).  You'll also need to make sure you use the dehacked file when testing in vanilla or Chocolate Doom.
    • Important DEHACKED-related info:
      • Nightmare Imp - use the Commander Keen
      • Nightmare Cacodemon (COOP only) - use Bloody Mess 2
      • Motherdemon (MAP30 only) - use Spidermastermind
      • Non-blocking Flaming Barrel - use Dead Lost Soul
      • Cyberdemons will open doors tagged 666 upon death.
      • The Doom 2 hanging body objects have been made non-blocking.
      • Use the "COOPSIGN" texture to signpost COOP-specific areas.
    • Maps must be playable from pistol-start (follow the original item progression from Doom 64 and this shouldn't be too much of an issue).
    • All maps must have COOP and DM starts as well as difficulty settings.  Try to fit in 6-8 DM starts.  For COOP support, consider adding extra items in addition to the extra monsters.  Also make sure all lock-in traps are COOP-friendly (provide a way back into a locked-off area for other players).
    • Test your maps using ChocoRenderLimitsVisplane Explorer is also very useful.  Remember to remove the statusbar from view when testing limits!
    • If your having issues with getting around limits, try out this custom nodes config (courtesy of esselfortium). You'll need to drop this in Doom Builder 2 (or GZDB)'s /Compilers/Nodebuilders/ subfolder.
    • Work together!  Maps need to meet a certain threshold for gameplay and visuals, so don't hesitate to ask for help.
    • You can claim music from the list below (see: Music).  I would like to stay away from music from other sources and try to use custom music only.
  • For Testers:
    • Use ChocoRenderLimits for vanilla limit stress testing. Remember to remove the statusbar from view when testing limits!
    • Use the -merge command when running the wad, not -file.  Also don't forget to apply the dehacked patch.
    • If your testing in a different port, please make sure to enable any settings which emulate a vanilla-like gameplay experience.
    • Please try to be as descriptive with your reports as possible.  This is especially important when reporting VPOs.  Use IDMYPOS along with screenshots.
    • Consider testing the maps in different difficulty settings and/or in COOP if you have the time.


Releases:

Old stuff

 

 

To-Do:

  • Get finished versions of the remaining maps.
  • Comb through each map submission and check for vanilla compatibility, COOP & DM starts, and COOP-friendly traps.
  • Ensure each map meets a certain threshold for visual fidelity.
  • Have new music for each map (tracks can be reused if need be).
  • Make EMAPINFO lump.
  • Come up with intermission/story texts.
  • Make new graphics for TITLEPIC/INTERPIC/BOSSBACK that are in a more vanilla-style?
  • Make new statusbar background graphics?  (probably based off of vanilla artwork)
  • Make new CREDIT graphic (maybe new HELP graphic too?).
  • Make an ENDOOM graphic?
  • Make DEMO lumps before the final release.
  • Compile readme file.
  • Finalize Motherdemon sprites.
  • Do a big bug testing session.

 


Maplist:

MAP SLOT                  | CLAIMANT                       | STATUS/NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAP01: Staging Area       | Death Egg & DILDOMASTER666     | Ready for Testing
MAP02: The Terraformer    | Blastfrog & Mechadon           | Ready for Testing
MAP03: Main Engineering   | Mechadon                       | Ready for Testing
MAP04: Holding Area       | Da Werecat                     | Ready for Testing
MAP05: Tech Center        | Z86                            | Ready for Testing
MAP06: Outpost Omega      | dt_                            | Work In Progress
MAP07: Even Simpler       | DeXiaZ                         | Ready for Testing
MAP08: Alpha Quadrant     | ArchvileHunter                 | Work In Progress
MAP09: Research Lab       | Da Werecat                     | Ready for Testing
MAP10: Final Outpost      | Da Werecat                     | Ready for Testing
MAP11: Cat and Mouse      | BaronOfStuff & Mechadon        | Ready for Testing
MAP12: The Bleeding       | Saint_Guy                      | Ready for Testing
MAP13: Terror Core        | MinerOfWorlds                  | Ready for Testing
MAP14: The Lair           | Death Egg & DILDOMASTER666     | Ready for Testing
MAP15: Altar of Pain      | Pedro VC                       | Ready for Testing
MAP16: Dark Citadel       | Nevander & DeXiaZ & Mechadon   | Ready for Testing
MAP17: Eye of the Storm   | Nevander                       | Ready for Testing
MAP18: Dark Entries       | Megalyth                       | Work In Progress
MAP19: Blood Keep         | BaronOfStuff & DILDOMASTER666  | Ready for Testing; Being updated by DILDOMASTER666
MAP20: Hardcore           | BaronOfStuff & Mechadon        | Ready for Testing
MAP21: Watch Your Step    | C30N9 & _bruce_                | Work In Progress
MAP22: Spawned Fear       | Pedro VC                       | Ready for Testing
MAP23: The Spiral         | BaronOfStuff & Mechadon        | Ready for Testing
MAP24: Breakdown          | _bruce_                        | Work In Progress
MAP25: Pitfalls           | DeXiaZ                         | Ready for Testing
MAP26: Playground         | BaronOfStuff & Mechadon        | Ready for Testing
MAP27: Burnt Offerings    | BaronOfStuff & Mechadon        | Ready for Testing
MAP28: Unholy Temple      | DILDOMASTER666                 | Work In Progress
MAP29: No Escape          | DILDOMASTER666                 | Work In Progress
MAP30: The Absolution     | Death Egg & DILDOMASTER666     | Work In Progress
MAP31: In the Void        | DILDOMASTER666                 | Ready for Testing
MAP32: Hectic             | Jimi                           | Ready for Testing
MAP33: Title              | Nevander                       | Ready for Testing

Download individual maps from HERE (including older versions).

Map order from here HERE, which was based off of Devalaous's proposed order from the old thread.


Graphics:

  • Sky textures - Da Werecat & Mechadon
  • COOP sign - Mechadon
  • Texture fixes - [Need Credit Here!] & Mechadon
  • MAP32 textures - DILDOMASTER666
  • CWILV gfx - Nevander
  • INTERPIC gfx - Da Werecat & CoTeCiO (based off of graphic by Midway)
  • M_DOOM, TITLEPIC, and BOSSBACK gfx - Blastfrog (based off of graphic by Midway)
  • Motherdemon sprites - Raz & id Software


Music:

 

Dehacked:

  • Obsidian
  • Mechadon
  • Blastfrog


Testers:

  • Nevander
  • Mechadon
  • CoTeCiO

 

Edited by Mechadon
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Ok, so there are quite a few things that I want to bring up and discuss.

The map list
I read through the old thread a couple of times, but it was still very difficult to know for sure what maps are done, what's still in progress, who's working on what, etc. The maplist in the OP is what I put together based off of the information I could decipher. It was just really confusing trying to figure it out as a person coming into this much later. So I need to know if the list in the OP is accurate, and if anything needs updating. Please don't be offended if your not credited or if your working on a map and its not on the list. Just let me know and I will get it updated (this is important because I don't want two different people working on the same map slot without knowing).

The map ordering
BaronOfStuff had a preliminary map order planned out. I don't know if this was settled on or not. I do think we will need to shuffle around some maps in order to make certain things work out better (Even Simpler should be in the MAP07 slot, The Absolution should be MAP30, etc). What's the consensus on his map order?

Dehacked work
Obsidian made an extensive dehacked patch which did a bunch of things. I think at this point, with so much of the mapping done already, that attempting to use this patch will just cause a lot of headaches. However, I do think it would be worthwhile to add a few things from it. It would be cool to have a Motherdemon-ish final boss instead of a Mastermind in my opinion (even if its just Mastermind sprite but with different attacks). I also think it would be neat to add a Nightmare Imp, which could replace the Keen monster and use the SS Nazi frames. I was also thinking about trying out a very slightly faster Chaingun (to match the D64 Chaingun), but that might be pushing it a bit too far, I dunno. Anyways, thoughts on this?

Music
I would really like to avoid using stock Doom music in this if at all possible. Viscra Maelstrom and Fisk (here too) made some w.i.p. tracks that I thought sounded pretty cool. If your a musician reading this, and your interested in contributing some music to the project, I think we would all very much appreciate it!

Graphics
One of my sole contributions to the project were some sky textures. Shortly afterwards, Da Werecat came along and made some much nicer ones using mine as a base (as well as this one which looks fantastic). We will be using his sky textures for the project. However I lack a tall version of the moon base sky. I might be able to extend it myself, but I would prefer the original taller version if possible (hopefully Da Werecat will get my PM).

In addition, I think it would be a good idea to have a few graphic replacements that aren't ripped straight from Doom 64. It could be neat to have remixed versions of these graphics; something that's a bit of Doom 64 and a bit of Doom II. I'm hoping that Da Werecat might be able to do help out with this, but nothing is set in stone. So if someone would like to take a stab at doing some new graphic replacements, let me know.

Map updates and testing
One goal that I want to set for this project's revival is to set a standard for the visuals, and to make the entire mapset COOP friendly. Now I'm not expecting every map to be amazing visually, and I won't be throwing out random maps because I don't think they are up to par. What I want to do is try and make all of the maps have clean texture alignment and be well textured. From what I've briefly played, most of the maps are just fine in the category for the most part. If your working on a map, or if you've already made a map, and you would like the visuals tweaked, please don't hesitate to find a partner to help out with that. I realize my standard for what looks good is subjective, so please just bear with me. I will try not to hammer this point too hard ;)

A few people have mentioned COOP, and I think we should definitely make sure all of the maps are COOP friendly. Basically this just means that there should be extra COOP monsters (with difficulty settings) as well as ways for other players to get into locked-off areas (such as traps that block a player in).

And we will want to make sure that all of the map implement difficulty settings. This is pretty self-explanatory I think :)

Finally, I think it is a good idea if we get some dedicated testers to help out. Everyone should post a link to their map in the thread so that it can be tested. I will also eventually put together a new testing build once the dust has settled a bit. Since this is a vanilla project, making sure that none of the maps break the vanilla limits is a must. So the more eyes we have testing the maps, the better.


Anyways, if there's anything else that should be discussed, please bring it up. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as much as possible. Also I'm still digging through the old thread and the old releases, so expect the OP to be updated soon.

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Could i help make maps? i don't know what map slots are open.

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Good to see the new thread up and running now! Maybe this thing can get finished this year. Here's some info on maps that I was involved with during the old thread:

A version of Eye of the Storm was made by me and was in the compiled pack that was from the old thread. The old thread was so messy that I don't even think anyone knew that it was made already by Z86 (I personally never saw it).

I had started a version of Dark Citadel but haven't finished it yet mainly because the outside area is a PITA to get working good in vanilla. Some compromises will definitely need to be made, but I don't know if I will finish it. Here's what I've got so far if someone else wants to pick it up.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/9vyw5mwz02zcaw5/d64d2_map13_working.zip

I had also made the (?) version of Titlemap that was included in the last compiled version from the old thread, but once again I'm not sure if that's the one that you mentioned in the map list.

Good luck with the project!

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I was the one who took The Bleeding mapslot.

I just did a quick play through of my map when I saw this thread pop up.
To my surprise a lot of my teleport spawns were absolutely broken.
I'm hoping the version I released wasn't such a busted piece of crap.

And if so here is a quick fix I just did.
Outdated link, see later post

Tell me if you think there's any improvements I should make on the map.

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I'd be really interested in taking one of the earlier techbase maps (1-7)if they are not all finished

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Mechadon said:

I do think we will need to shuffle around some maps in order to make certain things work out better (Even Simpler should be in the MAP07 slot, The Absolution should be MAP30, etc).


You don't really need to move Even Simpler to MAP07. You could just use the KeenDie code pointer instead of BossDeath and have doors opening instead of floors lowering -- IIRC you can indeed trigger tag 666 twice with KeenDie, using two different types of monster.

The Absolution probably shouldn't be MAP30, because it would mean monsters warping in would telefrag each other.

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There are a few more things I wanted to bring up that I forgot about yesterday while drafting the new thread.

I'm going to be working on putting together a new resource wad and an updated build of the project in the coming days. The resource wad won't be much more than the new graphics, new sky textures, and maybe a few other things. The updated build will likely be based off of the version that CoTeCiO put together recently (though I need to cross-reference it against this release from a couple of years ago.

Since the project was in a semi-dead state for so long, I have a feeling that some of the claimed maps aren't going to be finished. I will be trying to contact all of the map authors very soon to get some status updates. If I can't get in touch with someone who has a claimed slot, that slot is going to be opened up for someone else to fill. I'm also going to need to get permission from authors to update existing maps if they aren't able to do so themselves (so we can fix bugs, add COOP support, clean up visuals, etc).

So if you have a slot claimed for this project, and if your reading this, you need to give me a status update!

MinerOfWorlds said:

Could i help make maps? i don't know what map slots are open.

Anything that says "UNCLAIMED?" in the map list above is potentially open for mapping. I say potentially because the state of the map list is kind of in a mess; I don't really know if someone is working on a slot or not. One thing I want to clear up as soon as possible is the status of each map slot.

Nevander said:

A version of Eye of the Storm was made by me and was in the compiled pack that was from the old thread. The old thread was so messy that I don't even think anyone knew that it was made already by Z86 (I personally never saw it).

I had started a version of Dark Citadel but haven't finished it yet mainly because the outside area is a PITA to get working good in vanilla. Some compromises will definitely need to be made, but I don't know if I will finish it. Here's what I've got so far if someone else wants to pick it up.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/9vyw5mwz02zcaw5/d64d2_map13_working.zip

I had also made the (?) version of Titlemap that was included in the last compiled version from the old thread, but once again I'm not sure if that's the one that you mentioned in the map list.

Good luck with the project!

Yes, one thing that's frustrated me so far is that there have been instances of multiple people making a map for the same slot. It's made it difficult to figure out what's what while reorganizing this. Do you know if the version that Z86 made is still around?

Concerning your Dark Citadel submission, if you haven't tried it yet, give the custom ZenNode config a try (I link to it in the OP). It might help if you have a chance to play around with it again. In the meantime I'll toss a link to your w.i.p. version in the OP.

And the titlemap, I'm going to assume for now that your the author of the version that appears in this build. If not, just let me know.

Thank you!

Saint_Guy said:

I was the one who took The Bleeding mapslot.

Thank you Saint_Guy, I will update the OP with a link to your map and credit you as the author :)

dt_ said:

I'd be really interested in taking one of the earlier techbase maps (1-7)if they are not all finished

At the moment, it looks like there aren't any open slots for 1-7. The WIP ones may potentially open up though if the mappers who have claimed them either relinquish them or don't show up to keep the slot.

Grain of Salt said:

You don't really need to move Even Simpler to MAP07. You could just use the KeenDie code pointer instead of BossDeath and have doors opening instead of floors lowering -- IIRC you can indeed trigger tag 666 twice with KeenDie, using two different types of monster.

The Absolution probably shouldn't be MAP30, because it would mean monsters warping in would telefrag each other.

Good idea regarding Even Simpler. I didn't know you could have tag 666 trigger twice with two different sets of monsters using that codepointer. Provided it does work like that, I think we might just go in that direction.

I forgot about the telefragging issue on MAP30. Hmmm, well I'm not sure how to approach this just yet. The Absolution will definitely have issues being in the MAP30 slot if it keeps teleporting monsters. But then again, any map in that slot is going to have issues if it has teleporting monsters. That's something we'll need to work around I suppose.

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No worries, if one of the earlier maps come up or needs finishing just let me know

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If you do end up using DeHackEd it'd probably be a good idea if I remake it from scratch: there's probably a heap of stuff I could do better. Let me know what your decision is. :)

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I'll make map11 Terror Core if that's okay.

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Though I unfortunately lost my MAP02 draft in a HDD crash last year, I'll start over work on it now that the project's been resurrected.

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Ok, I have a few updates.

I've sent PMs to every contributor that I can so that I can get status updates and latest versions of the maps. The map list in the OP has been updated with some new info and some download links; I'm still working on it and, eventually, each slot will have a download link to each map. To anyone who is familiar with the project, can you let me know if any of the map credits need updating? I read through the entire old thread 3 times to make sure I didn't miss anything, and I just want to make sure that everyone is being credited here.

We do have a couple of issues. I don't know of a way to get in touch with Pedro VC as he has been banned. I do have all of his maps but I don't know for certain if they are the most up-to-date versions. Also there's the obvious problem with BaronOfStuff's submissions; I was able to grab all of them from the .zip in this post, but I can only assume they are his most up-to-date versions. Seeing as how his absence lead to me taking over the project, I don't think it will be easy to get a definite answer to this :P

I think there might be a few maps that have different versions by different authors floating around somewhere. Scet made a version of Even Simpler, but the download links to it in the old thread were dead. Nevander pointed this out already, but apparently there was a version of Eye of the Storm that Z86 did, but there is no link to it in the old thread. Finally, I think Fisk has updated a few maps that were finished, but I don't know if I have his version or the originals (hopefully he'll get my PM).

If we don't hear back from some of these mappers, then I'm going to allow other mappers to work on them so the project doesn't stagnate again. Worst case scenario, if this something that no one feels comfortable doing, I can just reopen the slot and the map can be remade (I'd rather not do that, obviously).

dt_ said:

No worries, if one of the earlier maps come up or needs finishing just let me know

dt_, it looks like most of those slot might stay filled, though something could change. However, the map order is going to be changed around, and in particular Outpost Omega will be somewhere in the first 10 maps (going by Ragnor's proposed map ordering in the old thread). I thought this map was claimed, but the name of the claimant from the old post wasn't even registered here. So I've decided to open up the slot. If you want to do Outpost Omega, just let me know.

Obsidian said:

If you do end up using DeHackEd it'd probably be a good idea if I remake it from scratch: there's probably a heap of stuff I could do better. Let me know what your decision is. :)

Personally I would really like to do add a few things (new boss, nightmare Imps, etc). We're going to need a dehacked patch for the map names and intermission scripts anyways, so why not? I wanted to give you the opportunity to do it since your previous attempt didn't get used.

Ok, so these are my ideas. We turn the Mastermind into a new boss; it can keep the vanilla sprites or maybe we can use a Mastermind sprite edit. Basically I really liked your Motherdemon from the previous dehacked. The only thing I would suggest is that the Archvile attack uses flames and has a longer delay (maybe faster than an Archvile, but definitely slower than it is now). If you have any other neat ideas though, I'm all ears. Also if we can have it end the level when it gets killed, that would be great.

I really liked the idea of having the Nightmare Imp. I figure the best way to go about it was to just have it be drawn fuzzy like the Spectre. If it could be made slightly more aggressive in any way, that could be cool too. Perhaps it could fire Cacodemon projectiles? And it could replace the Keen object, but use the SS Nazi frames (that way it doesn't drop a clip upon death).

The last thing I would like to do is experiment with a very slightly faster Chaingun (I want to emphasize 'experiment', heh). The Doom 64 Chaingun is very slightly faster than the vanilla Chaingun, I think. And generally speaking, faster firing Chainguns are something I always enjoy. But it has to work well with the maps as they are right now, so again...I just want to experiment :P

If you've got any other thoughts or ideas, lemme know.

MinerOfWorlds said:

I'll make map11 Terror Core if that's okay.

You've got the slot, good luck and have fun!

Blastfrog said:

Though I unfortunately lost my MAP02 draft in a HDD crash last year, I'll start over work on it now that the project's been resurrected.

Likewise, you have the slot again. I'll be looking forward to what you guys make :D

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This might help for the DeHackEd:

Kaiser said:

Here's some of the major gameplay changes done to Doom64:

* Chaingun and super shotgun has a faster fire rate
* Pistol fires slightly faster
* Plasma gun has little to no cooldown time.
* Imp's projectiles travel MUCH slower
* Lost Souls are much more aggressive
* Shotgun guy moves slightly faster than Zombiemen
* Cacodemons are slightly more aggressive
* Arachnotron fires two projectiles and deals lesser damage
* Pain Elementals fires two lost souls and is limited to 17 souls at a time instead of 20
* Rocket projectile travels slightly faster
* Hell knights are used way more often than any other monster in the game. This is more of a balancing issue due to lack of unique monsters and the overpowering of some of the player's weapons
* Player moves slightly slower and has less friction when stopping


But i don't know what can and can not be done with DeHackEd.

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MinerOfWorlds said:

This might help for the DeHackEd:

Thanks for this, it will help with my own TC.

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Just remember not to take the original mapslot numbers literally, things need to be moved around and shifted to adhere to classic Doom 2's limitations

Really looking forward to this project's eventual release

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Nevander said:

Thanks for this, it will help with my own TC.


You're welcome.

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Yeah I'll take that slot, how close to the original maps are we keeping?

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MinerOfWorlds said:

This might help for the DeHackEd:
====
Here's some of the major gameplay changes done to Doom64:

* Chaingun and super shotgun has a faster fire rate
* Pistol fires slightly faster
* Plasma gun has little to no cooldown time.
* Imp's projectiles travel MUCH slower
* Lost Souls are much more aggressive
* Shotgun guy moves slightly faster than Zombiemen
* Cacodemons are slightly more aggressive
* Arachnotron fires two projectiles and deals lesser damage
* Pain Elementals fires two lost souls and is limited to 17 souls at a time instead of 20
* Rocket projectile travels slightly faster
* Hell knights are used way more often than any other monster in the game. This is more of a balancing issue due to lack of unique monsters and the overpowering of some of the player's weapons
* Player moves slightly slower and has less friction when stopping.
====
But i don't know what can and can not be done with DeHackEd.

Most of those thing can be done using DeHacked. I don't know the internal workings of DeHacked, so I don't know exactly how they would work. Things like slower player speed might be possible, but I'm pretty sure it's not possible unless your map contains something like Boom's friction, wind etc feature. Usage of HKs, entirely upto the mapper. Not sure about the two lost soul spawning thing.

But then again, D644D2 looks more like a mapping project only, unless there are plans to add in new sprites and all that.

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Voros said:

But then again, D644D2 looks more like a mapping project only, unless there are plans to add in new sprites and all that.

Ever since the inception of the project back on the old thread, the goal was always Doom 64 made for vanilla Doom 2. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the project loads and plays in vanilla with no issues or crashes then it's fair game. Then again, I'm not the leader so this is just opinion.

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So, since BaronOfStuff is no longer in charge, what is your opinion on using Obsidian's DEHACKED Mother Demon, Mechadon? He was against it, I was for it, (and the nightmare imps he made too but too many maps have been converted without them) as it makes a much better final boss then just the Spider Mastermind again or yet another Icon of Sin battle, which wouldn't work well with the way that map is set up anyway.

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If the project's goal is to recreate Doom 64 maps with Doom II assets, then why would you want to introduce custom monsters?

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More updates!

I've went through both builds from the old thread, and I have updated the map list in the OP with links to all of the latest versions of the maps that I have. Pedro VC and BaronOfStuff's submissions have been marked as 'Ready for Testing' since we may never know if those are truly the final versions or not. Those maps may get opened up for tweaking/enhancing at some point if they require more work to get up to par.

I'm still waiting to hear back from a few people to get status updates. But the map list is in a much better place now.

PLEASE NOTE, I have renamed all of the map submissions so that they follow the naming scheme that I came up with in the guidelines. Also all of the maps (apart from Even Simpler) have been moved to the MAP01 slot so that its quicker to test. If you can, please follow the naming guidelines I came up with so that I can keep things organized. Also consider changing your map slot to MAP01 so it makes things a little bit easier on the testers; I can handle moving the map slot while compiling builds.

I have a few things left on my to-do list:

  • Come up with a new map order.
  • Put together a resource wad (once I can get in touch with Da Werecat).
  • Put together a dehacked patch (along with some experimental changes that we can test).
  • Put together a new map compilation.
  • Figure out what to do with dehacked (new boss, nightmare imp, etc).
  • Get testing started and figure out which maps need fixing, polishing, etc. Also need to stress test limits and ensure all maps are COOP-friendly and have difficultly settings.
  • Find some musicians interested in creating a new midi soundtrack.

MinerOfWorlds said:

This might help for the DeHackEd:

Thanks for the help! I don't know that we'll be making any of those changes. But I would like to experiment with some of them at the very least. We'll have to be careful about making too many changes because many of the maps are already done, and they were made with Doom II's mechanics in mind.

Out of that list, the things that are possible in dehacked that I would also like to experiment with are:
- Slightly faster Pistol and Chaingun
- Maybe a slightly faster Rocket projectile
- Maybe a slightly faster moving Shotgunner
- More aggressive Lost Souls (maybe with slightly less HP) though I'm not sure this one is possible.

Ragnor said:

Just remember not to take the original mapslot numbers literally, things need to be moved around and shifted to adhere to classic Doom 2's limitations

I'm going to be taking a look at the map ordering soon. But most likely I'll be using the order that you came up with (or something very similar to it). I might have a preliminary ordering up later tonight, so you guys can comment on it. It's just going to be easier and make more sense in the long run to rearrange a few of the maps around, I think.

dt_ said:

Yeah I'll take that slot, how close to the original maps are we keeping?

You should stay pretty close, but it doesn't have to be a 1:1 recreation. If it were me, I would probably copy the bare architecture and layout from the original map, come up with a texture theme that feels like a close approximation, clean up the texturing so that everything is well-aligned, carry over the monsters and make tweaks where necessary, and then get creative with any of the trigger/gameplay elements that you can't carry over into vanilla. You do have room for some creativity.

I have links up to all of the currently submitted maps, and a compiled wad will come shortly. So check those out so you can get a sense on how other people have converted over their maps.

Death Egg said:

So, since BaronOfStuff is no longer in charge, what is your opinion on using Obsidian's DEHACKED Mother Demon, Mechadon?

I posted my thoughts on this a couple of times already, but yea, I am all for having a new Motherdemon-style boss monster. I think Obsidian and I will be discussing some of this stuff in the near future.

About Nightmare Imps, including them is something that will require extra work. I don't know if that's something we want to do or not, but I would personally like to see them. We'll just have to play around with some ideas and see.

JohnnyTheWolf said:

If the project's goal is to recreate Doom 64 maps with Doom II assets, then why would you want to introduce custom monsters?

A couple of reasons. The Mastermind is kind of a boring boss, especially when you are restricted to a map like The Absolution (essentially a big arena). This is a one-time use monster, so it doesn't really affect any of the other maps.

Anything beyond that, like Nightmare Imps or weapon tweaks, are just ideas to experiment with at this point. The idea behind this project can be interpreted in a few different ways, and so not everyone is going to like the idea of modifying the game's mechanics to better match Doom 64. And others like the idea of making tweaks and additions. I kind of want to take a middling approaching here and make some small additions and tweaks that enhances the Doom II aspect of the game (though yes, that is still going to be subjective :P). And we can do a lot of this without touching any of the game assets that are being used (ie. the Nightmare Imp will probably make use of the SS Nazi and Keen things).

Blastfrog said:

Whatever happened to BaronOfStuff, anyway?

From what I read in the old thread, he was losered at some point and I guess he didn't bother to ever come back. But that's all I know, and that is just speculation.

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I completely neglected multi player, because this was doom 64 I wasn't thinking about multi player at all.

So here is a new version that has 4 coop starts and 7 death match starts.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z2a71xdpcrezzbl/Saint_Guy-The%20Bleeding-Version%202.wad?dl=0

Now this map is completely functional in both single player and multi.
I consider this to be finished, but if there are any ideas on improvements I will revisit it.

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Awesome, thank you for updating your map Saint_Guy! I've updated the link in the map list :)

I have a preliminary map order put together. Let me know what you guys think:

MAP01: Staging Area
MAP02: The Terraformer
MAP03: Main Engineering
MAP04: Holding Area
MAP05: Tech Center
MAP06: Outpost Omega

MAP07: Even Simpler (may want to retexture this one so it fits in better with the techbases)
MAP08: Alpha Quadrant
MAP09: Research Lab
MAP10: Final Outpost
MAP11: Cat and Mouse

MAP12: The Bleeding
MAP13: Terror Core
MAP14: The Lair
MAP15: Altar of Pain (will use the existing secret exit)
MAP16: Dark Citadel
MAP17: Eye of the Storm
MAP18: Dark Entries
MAP19: Blood Keep
MAP20: Hardcore

MAP21: Watch Your Step
MAP22: Spawned Fear
MAP23: The Spiral
MAP24: Breakdown
MAP25: Pitfalls
MAP26: Playground
MAP27: Burnt Offerings
MAP28: Unholy Temple
MAP29: No Escape (might be able to give the Cyberdemons the keen death codepointer which can reveal an exit switch)
MAP30: The Absolution (will need to work around telefragging monsters, but I have one idea that might work)

MAP31: Hectic
MAP32: In the Void

MAP33: Title (might be neat to use this as a titlemap for ZDoom players, if that's possible)
I changed a few things around from Ragnor's/BaronOfStuff's ordering. Mostly I thought it would be best to put Hardcore at the end of the 3rd bulk, just before the intermission text pops up. Playground was a little more tricky (see below). Those maps are more like mini-challenges, so it seems to make sense to throw them towards the end of the bulks. Ragnor tossed Cat and Mouse at the end of the techbase episodes, and I think that will be a fitting end to that theme.

I also wanted to keep as much of the original order preserved where possible. So a couple other slots got moved around to accomplish this.

Altar of Pain on MAP15 made sense to me since there's already a secret exit there (Ragnor placed it there originally) and it doesn't stray too far from its original slot (MAP12).

Placing Playground was a little difficult. Ragnor had it placed on MAP25, but I felt like it should be down the list just a bit further. The map is kind of a gimmick, so its hard to place. This one I could see being moved around again, so let me know what you guys think.

Even Simpler is MAP09 in Doom 64. It was suggested that it could stay in that slot if we swapped the bossdeath codepointers for the keendeath ones. But with the way the themes are setup, its going to be stuck in the 'techbase episode' either way. So I think its going to be easier in the long run to keep it in the MAP07 slot, and just do some visual tweaking so it fits in better with the techbases.

And finally there's MAP30 and the issue of telefragging monsters. I can't see The Absolution being on any other mapslot; its the logical end to Doom 64. The map needs to be reworked anyways since we have no Demon Artifacts to work with, so I'm hoping Fisk might be open to altering it so that its more fun. The idea I have to get around the telefragging monsters is to use the IoS monster spawner; it won't be used in any other capacity, so it might be worth a shot.

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I wonder if it'd be possible to get someone to remaster the Mother Demon to look like the original Doom style? Someone like Cage for example. It'd have to be shrunk a bit since the Doom 64 sprites are somewhat larger in scale too.

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I'd be all for a nightmare imp too if space permits. Spectre fuzz imps! I personally dont consider that breaking from Doom 2, if your gonna do the mother Demon, and space permits, gotta have the nightmare imp :)

Mechadon said:

I changed a few things around from Ragnor's/BaronOfStuff's ordering. Mostly I thought it would be best to put Hardcore at the end of the 3rd bulk, just before the intermission text pops up. Playground was a little more tricky (see below). Those maps are more like mini-challenges, so it seems to make sense to throw them towards the end of the bulks. Ragnor tossed Cat and Mouse at the end of the techbase episodes, and I think that will be a fitting end to that theme.


Yeah, Cat & Mouse is where it is on that early list because even in D64 itself, its textured like a techbase map :) Allows it to be used as a boss-map episode finisher without feeling too out of place. Playground and Hardcore were much harder to place. Hardcore was the one in the outdoor hell arena right?

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