Doom 64 for Doom II - v1.4 released, /idgames link is up

[Mechadon]

Yea the misaligned Rev fireballs is just a thing that you sometimes have to deal with when it comes to dehacked monsters.  I was more worried about creating a Motherdemon-like behavior first and foremost, visual oddities were a secondary concern :P

 

To give a little info on our thought process on what to do for the Motherdemon, I had the idea to use the unreleased "mind attack" sprite for the Mastermind as a focal point of its behavior.  The Motherdemon has an Archvile-like attack, so it seemed appropriate to try and recreate something similar here.  It's main attack is mostly just a very weak attempt at the Motherdemon's other attacks (it has homing missiles, so that's why I added them to this version).  There's no way to give it the BFG2047 attack in vanilla without doing some major replacements, so this is the best I could come up with.

 

About the sprites, Obsidian had the idea to use one of Eriance's monsters (I think the Guru) for the Motherdemon.  That was my plan when I started working on this, but after some testing I found it to be way too small.  So I decided to fall back on the Mastermind sprite edit for a few reasons.  The first, as I said, is because I wanted to use that unreleased mind attack sprite.  But I also decided to use it because I think it fits the overall goal of the project; its an original Doom monster recreated to fit the Doom 64 theme.  The Mastermind doesn't get completely wiped from the project and we get a new boss out of it.  The only downside is that there are just a few Mastermind sprite edits out there that work (the other two candidates were the Arachnorb Queen and the Arachnophyte...both of which would have required a lot more extra sprite work by the way).  So we're stuck with the Supreme Fiend unless someone can cook something else up.

 

I kind of wonder now if I should rename it to something like "The Mothermind" since its not technically a perfect recreation of the Motherdemon :P

Edited September 6, 2017 by Mechadon

[Da Werecat]

I don't really like those sprites.

[Nevander]

6 hours ago, Mechadon said:

I kind of wonder now if I should rename it to something like "The Mothermind" since its not technically a perfect recreation of the Motherdemon :P

I'd argue that both Arachnotrons and Spider Mastermind are still demons in a sense, so technically Motherdemon is still a valid name.

[Quantum Dranger]

I can help playtest if you need more betatesters.

[CoTeCiO]

Hey! More MIDIs coming! All of these except for Bells are rearrangements from songs I wrote, but I tried to make them more simple and straightforward than their "real" counterparts. I don't know if some of this stuff even fits on a game, but anyway, at least it's a good listen, I hope. I have a couple more of ideas around that I need to develop into songs, I will probably do that tomorrow.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Vpm2y5MZh6WXBzV2VMM1RYQzg this is called Bells

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Vpm2y5MZh6dHBwZXp3T00wSE0 this is called Catharsis

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Vpm2y5MZh6b2t6NEh0bUZRMlE this is called Departure

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Vpm2y5MZh6ZVlVWDc2N21hOUE this is called Extradimensional Beings

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Vpm2y5MZh6T21zaldwLWRmeVE this is also Extradimensional Beings, but one tone lower. It sounds a little bit different and maybe even better than the original.

 

I also attached a zip file with these MIDIs. I hope you like them!

D64D2 CoTeCiO MIDIs 2.zip

[Dexiaz]

On 21.02.2017 at 0:35 AM, DeXiaZ said:

Spider Mastermind as Final Boss is uninventive. Even with new sprite animations.

NiGHTMARE offered brilliant idea to use ARACNORB QUEEN from Realm667:


She is flying like Mother Demon. Her attacks we can implement in dehacked patch.

BTW

[_bruce_]

The "Aracnorb" queen looks pretty outstanding - props to the artist(s).

Somewhat too  "Duke3d-/Predator-ish" for me but nonetheless a beauty.

[[McD] James]

She's a beaut, alright. The kind of lady you'd want to take home to meet your parents. 

[Mechadon]

The Arachnorb Queen is definitely an awesome sprite, and it was originally on my list of sprites to use.  But Obsidian and I both thought that it might be a bit too overused lately, so we really wanted to do something different.  Though I'd say the Supreme Fiend sprites aren't really ideal.  It was the easiest solution for me at the time because its a relatively simple sprite in terms of animation (which is good for making the dehacked work simpler), and because it was the quickest for me to implement the mind-attack sprite.  I don't hate it and I think it would be good enough if it doesn't get replaced, but I wouldn't mind something of better quality.

 

The other option would be to use the Arachnophyte.  However that one is going to take a bit more work because the version I have is recolored, so I'd need to graft the original brainy bits back on it.

 

Obsidian's original idea was to use an unfinished sprite from Eriance.  This was my plan until I found that it was a bit too small.  This is the sprite I'm talking about by the way; its called the "Guru":

 

 

But its about as big as a Cacodemon, and that just didn't feel right considering this is meant to be a vanillified Motherdemon.  Also it lacks a lot of necessary animations...so yea, it would be a lot of work.

 

If someone skilled enough wants to step up and make a better sprite, that would be a huge help to me!  For the moment I'm kind of stuck on the idea of the Motherdemon being based off of the Mastermind in some way, especially with that unreleased mind-attack sprite.

 

By the way guys, I updated the guidelines in the first post.  There's a bit more info for mappers there, and I added an extra section for playtesters.

 

On 9/6/2017 at 8:12 PM, Quantum Dranger said:

I can help playtest if you need more betatesters.

We definitely need more playtesters!  Just grab the latest build and report anything you find, and I'll mark you down in the credits.

 

On 9/6/2017 at 10:11 PM, CoTeCiO said:

Hey! More MIDIs coming!

Excellent work, thanks for taking the time to contribute these!  I've added them to the OP so hopefully they will get claimed.

[Nevander]

It reminds me of the Nihilanth from Half-Life.

 

Why not take the Doom 64 sprites and vanilla-fy them instead? Do some photoshop magic on those to make them look like they belong in vanilla Doom.

[Dexiaz]

55 minutes ago, Nevander said:

Do some photoshop magic

You said this like everyone here are "Photoshop's" Dumbledores, Gandalfs, Merlins, etc.

 

"Initiative f*&ks the Initiator of this initiative" (c) Russian proverb.

 

Just do it.

[_bruce_]

Is using the original motherdemon a possibility or a copyright issue?

 

@CoTeCiO - done listening... awesome tracks.

[Dexiaz]

1 hour ago, _bruce_ said:

Is using the original motherdemon a possibility or a copyright issue?

Original sprites from Doom 64 doesn't suit classic Doom I-II design. Otherwise we can easily use someone from "Blood" videogame, for example.

[Mechadon]

The original Doom 64 Motherdemon sprites clash too much against the vanilla art style in my opinion.  The only way I'd feel comfortable including them is if they were completly repainted over to match the vanilla art style.  That's a huge chunk of work and it requires a skill set that not many people have.  Also copyright is technically an issue too...but I don't think it would matter much in the end (using the D64 maps as a base for this is probably in the same copyright realm so we're already there).

[_bruce_]

Ok, I see.

The Guru sprite would look great if it was a little bit more buff. Fine artwork but it appears a little bit too meek to be a be all/end all boss.

[CoTeCiO]

I think there's a small problem in MAP01... When you go through the secret teleport in front of the blue key door, two shotgun guys should teleport in front of you, but they don't. You can hear them and you can see them walking around in the automap when using IDDT, so they're there, but maybe there's something wrong with the tags or the teleporting objects. I tried it in both Chocolate Doom and Doom Retro and in neither of them it worked.

[Mechadon]

Nice catch CoTeCiO, I just confirmed it.  It looks like the teleport tags are screwed up from what I can tell in DB.

 

While I'm here, I'll also report a misaligned texture on the lift that leads to the Soulsphere secret (just past the BK door).  This is MAP01 as well:

 

[Dexiaz]

Ok, it's better to show 1 time than talk about this over 9000 times.

 

 

Edited into classic Doom style. Took color of the Arch-vile from Doom 2. I think it still doesn't feet classic design.

[Da Werecat]

Making this work will require effort and experience.

[Mechadon]

Yes, its going to require more work than a simple recolor.  I'm talking about completely repainting over the sprite entirely.

[Dexiaz]

That's I'm talking about. People just saying that we can just use original sprites. No, we can't.

 

I don't know, who can do such repainting work. Anyone from ZDoom Spriting Carnival thread? :\

[Tormentor667]

This is amazing. How could I miss this? :)

[Mechadon]

Thanks for the kind words Torm!

 

To help keep the project looking alive, I spent some more time updating another one of BaronOfStuff's maps.  This time it's Burnt Offerings.  Here are some screenshots:

 

 

Burnt Offerings v2

 

I felt this one really needed to get some attention with its visuals and with some of the trap setups.  So the entire map got a visual overhaul; a small suburb+demonic temple combination felt appropriate for this one.  Also the lighting is a lot less flat now.  At the expense of adding a ton of extra work time because of VPOs, but I think I squashed all of them :P.

 

As for the gameplay, I had a little too much fun trying to figure out how to better represent the cool traps and effects in vanilla.  This one will require that you set vanilla compatibility in ports like ZDoom, otherwise the voodoo dolls might not work properly.  The RL trap works beautifully as far as the mechanics are concerned.  However the RK trap is a bit messy.  Apparently vanilla treats some of the crusher actions differently, and the RK trap requires the use of one that damages the player for 1HP.  So I tossed in health bonuses which the voodoo doll picks up after being pushed...I don't know if this will be a problem later on or not.

 

Anywho, in addition to all of that, the map now also has proper COOP support along with lots of other bug fixes and small changes.

 

*edit*

 

Made a quick fix to the RK trap, so I reuploaded.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Mechadon

[CoTeCiO]

So the Nightmare Caco is just for coop, right? I saw one in MAP05 in single player.

[Mechadon]

Yes that's the idea anyway.  It's not something that was a part of the original game, but was in the Absolution TC.  Obsidian wanted to include it, and I thought it would make a nice addition for COOP-only plays.

 

There will likely be a few pop up in some of the maps because it replaces a redundant gore decoration object.  Any map that uses this as a decoration (from before the dehacked was completed) will unintentionally have a Nightmare Caco as part of normal play.  So this would be considered a bug; all that needs to be done is to replace the bloody mess 2 object with the normal bloody mess.

 

If you happen to come across any others, just report it and it'll get taken care of ;)

[_bruce_]

That sky's looking swell! Map's great looking too.

 

Didn't know that BaronOfStuff departed from the project.

[Mechadon]

Thanks _bruce_ :D

 

BaronOfStuff's absence is most of the reason why the project got a reboot.  He contributed quite a few maps too, and it was going to be necessary to edit them at some point to, at the very least, fix bugs.  I've just gone an extra couple of miles by doing more visual cleanup work and tweaking gameplay in some bits.

[Mechadon]

Hey guys, I've got a resource wad update here.  I added a few more fixed vanilla textures, as well as a coop sign texture (based off of the exit sign) for anyone who would like to signpost any COOP-specific areas.  It's handy if you want to avoid confusion for COOP-only areas that might be opened up (like teleporters).

 

D64D2 resource v3

 

Please let me know if there are any issues.

 

I also put together a quick to-do list in the first post.  Let me know if need to add anything to it.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Mechadon

[Mechadon]

More stuff from me today.  This time its a finished version of The Terraformer.  Blastfrog didn't think he would be able to finish it, so I took it over the other day and polished it off.

 

The Terraformer v1

 

 

Aside from the detail work and COOP stuff, I spent a good deal of time replicating the traps.  The traps and dynamic stuff in this one were a doozy, but also a lot of fun.  I took full advantage of the vanilla voodoo dolls for this one, and the BK trap in particular is kind of silly (but it works!).

 

I could really use some testing help on this one by the way.  I'm pretty confident there aren't any VPOs or egregious SEGS overflows.  But I want to make 100% sure that the BK trap setup is consistent.  I did a bunch of tests and I got it fixed to where I think its consistent everytime, but the whole setup is held together with a lone Archvile triggering certain doors in voodoo dolls setups.  So if someone could give this one a spin and do the BK trap a few time in Chocolate Doom, I would be very grateful!

[Saint_Guy]

Whenever I think i'm done with this something always seems to come up.
I made my map before the DEHACKED decisions.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixloy78kffz2qf7/Saint_Guy-The Bleeding-V3.wad?dl=0

 

I just replaced the hallway of imps with the dark imps.
It's such a small edit I was considering just leaving it as is, but no reason not to be more accurate.

 

On the issue of music, does it really have to be custom?
Seeing as how the Bleeding is now the first hell map I thought it would be cool to use Opening to hell.
This is classic doom and I think it's the most eerie and atmospheric of the original games. I thought it would be a good fit.
It's so unappreciated in doom 2.