Doom 64 for Doom II - v1.4 released, /idgames link is up

[Mechadon]

Thanks Saint_Guy, I appreciate you taking the time to toss in a couple Nightmare Imps in your map :).

 

Music stuff is still not totally decided yet.  I was leaning towards custom stuff because we've had some contributions made for the project and I always like including new work.  But I think we're also going to have a bit of a thematic problem too since not everything is going to be moody/ambient style (at least not all of the contributions have that tone).  Opening to Hell is a great track and I think is a perfect example of what I'd like to see, style wise, for the whole wad.

 

Anyways, I can set your map to use that track for now if you would like.

[Saint_Guy]

I would like the music to be changed, thank you.

[StalkerZHS]

Cant wait for build v4

[CoTeCiO]

10 hours ago, Mechadon said:

I was leaning towards custom stuff because we've had some contributions made for the project and I always like including new work.  But I think we're also going to have a bit of a thematic problem too since not everything is going to be moody/ambient style (at least not all of the contributions have that tone).

I was thinking that a mixture of new music and some old tunes could set the vanilla mood of the mod better. You could do something like TNT, it had new music done for the game and some music from the original games (or just Doom II, I don't remember). I experimented a little with that when I did the compilation from the old thread. Some of the maps from the mod that I've played could have some of the original music in it and fit better than something new.

 

Another approach that could be done for some levels could be using rearranged covers like Bobby did. I was thinking on the particular case of MAP07; in Doom II, Dead Simple uses a cover of Slayer's South of Heaven, an unusually slow track from that band. Maybe, because Even Simpler is similar to that map and follows pretty much the same formula, we could use a cover of Mandatory Suicide, another Slayer song that is slow from the same album as the other one.

[Dexiaz]

1 hour ago, CoTeCiO said:

Another approach that could be done for some levels could be using rearranged covers like Bobby did. I was thinking on the particular case of MAP07; in Doom II, Dead Simple uses a cover of Slayer's South of Heaven

I've already did this cover. Check music links list

Edited September 18, 2017 by DeXiaZ

[Mechadon]

Good post CoTeCiO!  I was thinking about this too and there are some tracks from Ultimate Doom that I think would work very well.  Mix those up with some of the custom pieces and I bet that would work pretty well in the end so long as we stay somewhat consistent.

 

Consistency is really my main concern here.  Tonal shifts from really slow, droning ambient to super upbeat stuff will make the experience feel very off balance in my opinion.  I'd like to stay on the more low-key side of things, but have some upbeat stuff for the more intense maps (like Even Simpler, Cat and Mouse, The Spiral, etc).

[Blastfrog]

Thanks for finishing the map off, Mecha. I bit off a bit more than I can chew, I need to finish my Freedoom responsibilities. Chungy set the (non-hard) deadline of December 2017, so I promise I'll actually have something good to show by then. I've been disappointed in myself recently, I need to push through and show that I can actually get something done (and well).

 

Words are meaningless, let's see if I actually produce.

[Mechadon]

No worries Blastfrog :).  I'm just glad you let me know so we could keep the project alive.

 

Let me know if there's anything you like me to do to the map.  And good luck with the rest of your projects!

[MinerOfWorlds]

Here's a new Version of Terror Core: http://www.mediafire.com/file/7u5z7kdmmr0emdi/MinerOfWorlds-TerrorCore-v4.zip

Edited September 21, 2017 by MinerOfWorlds

[Chopkinsca]

This looks like a cool project, I'll keep any eye on it. I freaking love Doom 64 and know the game in and out. Too bad I didn't get back to mapping earlier, this would be a cool project to work on.

[CoTeCiO]

Hey everyone! I got a new song for the project! This one is like a Sinister (Doom's E2M6) ripoff haha! When I started working on it and adding layers of instruments to it started to sound very similar to that song, and it sounds a little bit like a Shawn's Got the Shotgun (Doom II's MAP07) as well, but still, I think this one has the classic Doom vibe! Enjoy!

Lurking.zip

[Quantum Dranger]

On 9/21/2017 at 3:31 PM, MinerOfWorlds said:

Here's a new Version of Terror Core: http://www.mediafire.com/file/7u5z7kdmmr0emdi/MinerOfWorlds-TerrorCore-v4.zip

Hey, good start! Just a few things that need addressing:

 

1. The rock, concrete and solid white texture don't blend too well.

 

2. The bridge gaps are a change from the water texture around them, but lack a change in height. This does not look right because of doom's rendering and should generally be avoided. If you want to keep the bridge gaps at water level, they can be raised using a "changes texture" action which changes the texture away from water only when needed.

 

3. I'm not on my main system so I dont have doombuilder but I could not find the blue key switch. Is this map not complete yet?

[_bruce_]

On 9/23/2017 at 10:31 PM, CoTeCiO said:

Hey everyone! I got a new song for the project! This one is like a Sinister (Doom's E2M6) ripoff haha! When I started working on it and adding layers of instruments to it started to sound very similar to that song, and it sounds a little bit like a Shawn's Got the Shotgun (Doom II's MAP07) as well, but still, I think this one has the classic Doom vibe! Enjoy!

Lurking.zip

 

I like the theme but I think it may benefit from having an opposing one fused into it. As it stands now -and I'm aware that all of this is a work in progress- it's kinda too lopsided.

[Mechadon]

I've started working on another map.  MinerOfWorlds is going to let me do some visual work on Terror Core, so I'll be chipping away at it.  I hope no one minds me updating so many of the submissions :P

 

@chopkinsca It's possible that some slots may open up in the future if your still interested in doing some mapping.  I can send you a message if something changes, so just let me know :).  We could also use some help with testing too!

 

@CoTeCiO I've put a link to your new track in the OP.  Thanks again for contributing so much music to the project!

 

@Quantum Dranger Thanks for the bug reports!  I've put you down as a tester so thanks again for your help.  Please feel free to report back on any of the other maps if you have the time.  Also I'll be addressing the things you brought up in Terror Core in my updates.

 

 

[Mechadon]

Alrighty, here are the updates to Terror Core :)

 

Terror Core v6

 

 

I didn't get too crazy this time.  The bridges are a little bit better now (they raise and lower instantly), and the general mechanics should better match the source material.  And of course the whole map got a visual overhaul along with COOP additions. 

 

There's a couple of minor SEGS overflows in places, but I don't think they will be a problem.  VPOs should all be taken care of...we'll see if any pop up later on :P.  There's also a couple of places where I had to alter the original architecture to get around some egregious VPOs.  One place in particular slightly changes up how a secret works; its still basically the same, but a tad harder now.

 

Let me know what you guys think!

Edited September 28, 2017 by Mechadon

[Mechadon]

Yay triple post...time for even more map updates from me.  A lot of them actually :P

 

The Terraformer v2

Main Engineering v3

Terror Core v7

Dark Citadel v4

Hardcore v5

Playground v4

Burnt Offerings v3

 

I'm pretty sure most of those updates are bug fixes, minor visual updates, and other small changes (of course I didn't log anything, but I can probably recall specific changes if someone needs me to).  If anyone finds anything wrong of missing, please let me know!

 

Three of the maps also now have music that I picked for them from Ultimate Doom (Terror Core, Main Engineering, and Dark Citadel).  I forget the exact tracks I chose for each map, but I went with the more slow, moody pieces.  They'll be in the next test build, I didn't add them to the individual wads.  I'm going to go through the list of new tracks soon to see if I can find something suitable for the rest.

 

Sometime soon I will be coming up with a new map check-in deadline.  I don't have anything set in stone right now, but I would really like to see if we can get this finished before the end of the year.  So please keep working on your maps and I'll have some plans coming soon!  Also note that a general gameplay/visual review will probably be coming shortly as well.

 

Also everyone checked in with status updates for their maps except @DILDOMASTER666.  I haven't been able to get in touch with him to see if he's still working or not, and he has quite a few slots taken.  Does anyone have a way to get in touch with him?  I know he was working on Unholy Temple and Blood Keep for sure (he posted some screenshots a while back), so I'm hesitant to drop those slots.  But I will eventually drop his other slots if we can't get in touch soon.

[Impboy4]

Do you think you can re-texture some areas of Da Werecat's tech maps to better fit the tech-base theme? He's made some rather questionable choices (ex, Final Outpost's end room with the window brick textures bordering the sky).

[Da Werecat]

It was a conscious decision, because it was supposed to be a map preceding hell.

[Nevander]

1 hour ago, Da Werecat said:

It was a conscious decision, because it was supposed to be a map preceding hell.

Yea and who knows what those crazy scientists were up to building Hell portals. It's like how parts of the Deimos base in Ultimate Doom already looked Hellish even without the Demon presence.

[Deleted_Account]

21 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

It was a conscious decision, because it was supposed to be a map preceding hell.

I like the idea of the hell portal transforming the immediate area surrounding it, into something resembling the world on the other side.

[Impboy4]

At least change the man-made brick window texture to a more hellish brick-like texture like GSTONE or SP_HOT

[Da Werecat]

I wanted windows.

[Impboy4]

Alright, I was just trying to provide suggestions to make it look more like hell is pouring out in that final room (the end portal is the way back into Hell)

[CoTeCiO]

There's a recurring thing in the mod that I'm not liking too much... I know there are many skilled players here and a challenge is always welcome, but I consider unnecessary to make the maps harder than their original counterparts. I mean, in Hectic there are many new rooms with even more monsters in a map that is already a pain in the ass, the same with Cat and Mouse with all those Mancubi around. Is it really necessary to make the maps ridiculously difficult for them to be enjoyable? For example, the blue key and red key rooms in Hectic, seriously?! Without a BFG don't even dream about clearing those rooms, maybe the red key one with the SSG or the Plasma Gun, but the blue key room with the Barons of Hell?? The yellow key room is alright and I managed to clear it even in a pistol start, but not even near of achieving that on the other two. Also, Main Engineering has too many Nightmare Imps and it can get quite frustrating because they are quite hard to see with the low resolution of Vanilla (I haven't checked the v3 version, so if that was changed in the new version, never mind that).

 

I know there is still a lot balancing to do with the maps, but I think that's something to keep in consideration.

 

One other thing. Both exits in Hectic return to MAP16 despite In the Void being in the MAP32 slot and there is no way to get to it under normal gameplay (that I know of, at least, am I missing a third exit?).

 

Oh, another thing. I tried to LAN party the mod to test it and I was disappointed to find out that MAP01 doesn't have any co-op starts.

[Mechadon]

Hey CoTeCiO, I'm away from home and on mobile right now.  So I can't give a detailed response at the moment.

 

Most of what you brought up are bugs that are either known or need to be reported, are balancing issues that have yet to really be discussed yet, or may be deliberate design decisions by the mapper (which will be subjective things).  Remember, this whole project is still very much in progress.

 

The feedback and bug reports are always appreciated of course!  Just remember that things are still gonna be a bit rough around the edges for a while longer ;)

[Mechadon]

I'm back from being out of town, and I have even more map updates.  Hope you guys aren't sick of them yet :P 

 

Main Engineering v4 - I reduced the number of Nightmare Imps and tweaked a few other minor things.

Cat and Mouse v4 - Made the Mancs COOP-only and swapped out the Revs for Nightmare Imps (these were all hold-over things from BaronOfStuff's version, and I assumed the Mancs were meant to be for COOP?).

Terror Core v8 - Made the start a little less brutal by deafening the Imps and Shotgunners at the start.  Also added/changed a few other minor things.

The Spiral v4 - Toned this one down even more.  BaronOfStuff's original version was insanely hard, and it was still too hard after I initially tweaked it.  Should be better now!

 

I've also claimed some tracks for more maps.  MAP11 = Can You Hold The Scream, MAP20 = Inappropriate Behavior, MAP23 = Lurking, and MAP26 = Gunfire!.  Those will all show up in the next test build, so lemme know if you guys think those tracks work well for those maps.

 

More project-related news:

 

Since I still haven't heard anything back from @DILDOMASTER666, I decided to drop his claim on the MAP30 slot.  I know he has in-progress versions of Unholy Temple & No Escape because he posted screenshots of them in the old thread (found the Blood Keep progress in this post).  So I'm not gonna open up those slots just yet in the hopes that we'll get some updates from him in the foreseeable future.

 

Does anyone remember which order the secret maps were meant to be in?  I thought I had my slots mixed up, but then I saw conflicting info in the map order and in the older posts.  And now I'm thoroughly confused, so I'm going to ask you guys - do we want Hectic to come before or after In the Void?

 

I'm going to see about setting up a bug-tracker system so that we can keep track of everything that needs to be fixed.  If anyone has any good suggestions for ways to set something like that up, let me know.  At the moment I'm considering using a Google doc to keep track of the stuff.  Also please consider doing more testing and feedback!  The sooner we get things smoothed out, the better (this includes any unpleasant gameplay stuffs too; we need to balance out stuff like the things CoTeCiO has mentioned).

 

Last thing - I'm considering a final map deadline for the end of November.  Do you guys think that would be doable?  We can then use the month of December for heavy testing and polish.  Version 4 of the testing build will be out way before then by the way.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Mechadon

[Da Werecat]

Hectic was accessible from level 1. It wasn't a regular secret map, more like a super secret map to unlock other super secret crap.

[Mechadon]

Right, but in this case it's being treated as one of the two main secret maps to fill out all 32 slots.  I guess it makes sense to have it come before In the Void so you have to get through it the "hard" way to access it?  So it kinda works to unlock the super secret level...kind of the same concept.  If the player gives up, they can take the open exit and head to MAP16.

[Nevander]

I think Hectic should come before In the Void.

[CoTeCiO]

Yeah, Hectic as MAP31 and In the Void as MAP32. In the Void is one of the most recognizable maps from Doom 64 and Hectic already has two exits, make sense to have them in that order.