Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Mechadon

Doom 64 for Doom II - v1.4 released, /idgames link is up

Recommended Posts

Apparently "merely recreating" takes time for some inexplicable reason. But at least it absolves me of any responsibility, so there's that.

 

research lab

 

No coop or anything - my first priority was to get SP somewhat working again after I broke everything by redoing half the geometry. Balance feels rude, and the map is missing some of the repopulation I didn't feel like messing with, so fine-tuning will be required down the line. I don't know what should and what shouldn't be done at this point, because I need to get some sleep.

 

Easy mode is probably as pitiful as ever, I haven't even tested it. There seems to be a pattern in Doom 64: medium and hard are reasonably close to each other, but easy is almost insulting. I think that maybe something should be done about it, to avoid an entirely pointless difficulty setting.

 

I wanted to write more things here, but I forgot most of them.

Share this post


Link to post

final outpost

 

- Coop starts.

- Coop-friendly yellow key pedestal.

- Sound propagation at the end should be better now. Though I suspect this is a much bigger issue. Doom 64 has a lot of teleporting junk, and vanilla engine has a shit saving system. There's bound to be more of this. The only way to reliably avoid issues is to play in an engine that fixes saves.

- Added some shadowy unpleasantness instead of selected monsters. I think it's a great addition to the bestiary, though I may be overusing it just a little bit.

- A few small spontaneous edits. There aren't many things about this map that I truly loathe.

 

Ideas for DECORATE: add new fireball sprites and a scratching sound for the nightmare imp's attack.

Share this post


Link to post

I went ahead and played build v5 over the course of yesterday and today and finished it just now. Really enjoyed the new take on the Doom 64 levels in the classic Doom style. It's interesting to see how things had to be changed and worked around in the cases where it couldn't be straight up duplicated.

 

Some things I noticed while playing through in Chocolate Doom 2.3.0

  • There were some odd music bugs I noticed, when using OPL2. When I first got to The Lair, the music was not playing, but started playing randomly later on in the stage. I'm presuming it looped and then started working, but I can't be sure. The same thing happened on The Spiral and Playground, except there the music never began. Upon reaching Burnt Offerings, the music was very jumbled, with the guitar lead playing right at the start and the general feel of the song completely out of sync from normal. Once it looped, however, it was okay. I just reloaded Chocolate Doom and the wad and warped to the stages and the music plays fine in all cases, so I'm not sure what happened.
  • The area in Breakdown where you can walk along a ledge and get an automap seemed to be bugged for me. I dropped down and got the automap, but the FIREBLU fixture blocking the path would not lower and I could not escape the area at all. I even clipped through the FIREBLU into the room with what seemed to be a teleport pad, but it would not function. Not sure what happened there.
  • There overall seemed to be a lack of cell ammo all throughout the wad. I'm not sure if I was just being careless or overly-reliant on the plasma/BFG, but it seemed more often than not, I was lacking in cells in a lot of situations. Rockets sort of felt the same way sometimes, but not as badly.
  • If you opt not to get any of the keys on The Absolution, the action gets so crazy during the final fight that sprites can start disappearing after a while. I was a bit slow in dealing with Mrs. Motherdemon due to all the shit that was happening, and I eventually noticed the sprites flickering.

 

Other than this, everything seemed to go okay and I didn't run into any crashes or other showstopping bugs. Definitely doing a good job on this, all!

 

Share this post


Link to post

While I liked the new status bar, I don't see it as a right fit for this project in particular. I think a darker version of the standard status bar would be more  appropriate, a la PSX Final Doom. Although, it's good to see STAR* textures getting some love as they are constantly bashed haha!

 

I was experimenting with a different Doom 64-related project a while ago and I created this status bar for it, but I don't feel it fits well either as it looks too Doom 64-ish and not Vanilla enough.

STBARN.png

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, CoTeCiO said:

I was experimenting with a different Doom 64-related project a while ago and I created this status bar for it, but I don't feel it fits well either as it looks too Doom 64-ish and not Vanilla enough.

STBARN.png

1

Maybe try and get rid of those lighter-brown diagonal metal lines? Rip a psxdoom metal texture?

Share this post


Link to post

Bashe, thanks for testing.

Currently "Breakdown" has a dead-end(teleporter) as the part of the map that substitutes the super-secret, where the "tele" would lead you to, is missing.

The map is finish-able but you can't reach the WIP-secret.

Edited by _bruce_

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, StalkerZHS said:

Maybe try and get rid of those lighter-brown diagonal metal lines? Rip a psxdoom metal texture?

Agreed. I really like your hud, CoTeCiO. And I'll prefer yours. But yeah, it uses D64 texture, let's change to the similar Doom2/DoomPSX texture.

Share this post


Link to post

Almost forgot - it's preferable for Research Lab to go with compat_sectorsounds 1.

 

As for the status bar - I think it's adequate, but not more than that. The highlights make me wonder why they're so bright.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the continued feedback on the statusbar graphic guys!  I'm still not sure what I'll end up doing with it, but for now it'll show up in build V6 so it can atleast get seen in proper action.  I was on the fence about it fitting the project as well, but I also kind of agree with Da Werecat that we shouldn't overthink it too much.  As I've been testing the build with it, it doesn't stick out against the hell maps as much as I thought.  If you guys can give it a whirl in this next build and give me your final thoughts, we'll go from there.

 

I'll still probably attempt a different one later on if I have the time :P

 

Speaking of build V6, I might be able to get it out later today or tomorrow.

 

17 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

- Sound propagation at the end should be better now. Though I suspect this is a much bigger issue. Doom 64 has a lot of teleporting junk, and vanilla engine has a shit saving system. There's bound to be more of this. The only way to reliably avoid issues is to play in an engine that fixes saves.

...

Ideas for DECORATE: add new fireball sprites and a scratching sound for the nightmare imp's attack.

Thanks for the map updates!  Did you still want me to do COOP additions, or are you planning on adding them yourself later on?

 

I remember now that this was a problem for Btsx, and I think pretty much every spawner had to be altered to get around it.  I forget the exact method used to fix it (it had something to do with adding extra sound "channels" from the spawning location to the spawner sectors), but yes, this is likely going to be a problem for any map that has monster spawners.  I'm on the fence as to whether or not its something that should be addressed just because it'll probably be a big pain, unless I go through each map after their finished myself and add them.

 

Good idea for the Nightmare Imp, I'll be sure to add that!

 

16 hours ago, Bashe said:

There overall seemed to be a lack of cell ammo all throughout the wad. I'm not sure if I was just being careless or overly-reliant on the plasma/BFG, but it seemed more often than not, I was lacking in cells in a lot of situations. Rockets sort of felt the same way sometimes, but not as badly.

 

If you opt not to get any of the keys on The Absolution, the action gets so crazy during the final fight that sprites can start disappearing after a while. I was a bit slow in dealing with Mrs. Motherdemon due to all the shit that was happening, and I eventually noticed the sprites flickering.

 

Thanks a ton for the testing help Bashe!

 

The lack of cell ammo is probably just a carry over from how much was from the original maps.  Though I can't say that for sure since most of the map I worked on already had their item placements done, I just did visual and some gameplay updates (I probably added some extra cell ammo in a few maps).  So I have to assume that the item placements are pretty close to the original maps.  I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.  But if you can recall any specific instances where some more cell ammo would be preferable, that would be handy :)

 

Also thanks for confirming a fear I had with the Motherdemon fight.  I was testing this yesterday and I didn't run into it, but I must not have let the spawners run long enough.  It'll be even worse if someone plays in vanilla COOP because I added extra spawners.  I think I may have the spawn closest close automatically after a certain point to help mitigate this issue.

 

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

Did you still want me to do COOP additions, or are you planning on adding them yourself later on?

I'm kinda struggling even with SP, so the thought of trying to create fun coop in these cramped corridors is scary. It'd be fair if I did everything myself, but I'm not sure I'd do it right.

 

I don't know.

 

17 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

I'm on the fence as to whether or not its something that should be addressed just because it'll probably be a big pain, unless I go through each map after their finished myself and add them.

Maybe some spawners could be replaced with "classic" monster closets and pop-ups. Although in many cases it would require some heavy changes to the surrounding structures.

 

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

I'm kinda struggling even with SP, so the thought of trying to create fun coop in these cramped corridors is scary. It'd be fair if I did everything myself, but I'm not sure I'd do it right.

 

I don't know.

 

Maybe some spawners could be replaced with "classic" monster closets and pop-ups. Although in many cases it would require some heavy changes to the surrounding structures.

 

I usually don't stress out too much over COOP placements, but that's just me.  The philosophy I run with is "more is better", and it hasn't failed me yet (or no one has bothered to tell me, heh).  Anyways, just let me know if you want me to help you out with COOP stuff at some point, I don't mind ;)

 

Monster pop-ups and closets could definitely work as a simple solution.  I guess we just need to decide if its something worth fixing in the long run.  If I can dig up the Btsx solution, I'll post it for anyone who would like to take advantage of it.

Share this post


Link to post

It would be nice if you could flag line activations as being coop only, instead of needing to use UDMF and do a convoluted method of checking the game mode and either running or terminating the script.

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Nevander said:

It would be nice if you could flag line activations as being coop only, instead of needing to use UDMF and do a convoluted method of checking the game mode and either running or terminating the script.

You could also tag the lines with coop-only specials with the same tag, then have an OPEN script that nullifies all the specials on lines with that tag with SetLineSpecial if the game mode isn't coop.

Share this post


Link to post

Ok guys, here's build version 6.

 

D64D2 Build V6 (Changelog)

 

We've got a pretty short changelog this time.  This is mostly just a map-focused update, but the new statusbar graphic is in here as well.  The big thing that I wanted to fix were the voodoo dolls in ZDaemon, so I guess that's the big deal here.  I did a quick test in ZDaemon with the voodoo doll updates and they seem to work now.  Hopefully that translates into actual COOP play :P.  By the way, things like the blocked exit in MAP01 haven't been addressed yet.

 

In other news, I've asked Cage if he could do a bit of graphic work for the project.  So he's going to see if he can make custom background graphics so we aren't using ripped D64 assets.  Hopefully we'll get to see those soon!

 

Also I think it might be time to figure out a final deadline.  My initial plan was to have this finished by the end of the month.  That might be a bit too tight though given its a busy month for some people.  So I'm thinking, at the latest, we should be done sometime in January.  What do you guys think?  If we can get it finished before then, that's fine too.

 

@Da Werecat Just wanted to let you know that I gave your Research Lab overhaul a play a few minutes ago and I thought you did a fantastic job!  I enjoyed pretty much all of the changes.  And those diorama pieces that show the player how previous areas have opened up were awesome additions.  Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed it :)

Share this post


Link to post

Heh, thanks. There were security cameras in that map, helping with progression. While replaying it with no fresh knowledge of what does what, I noticed that the situation without them is worse than I thought.

 

3 hours ago, Mechadon said:

Also I think it might be time to figure out a final deadline.  My initial plan was to have this finished by the end of the month.  That might be a bit too tight though given its a busy month for some people.  So I'm thinking, at the latest, we should be done sometime in January.  What do you guys think?  If we can get it finished before then, that's fine too.

End of January sounds realistic to me, but I haven't looked at the state of the majority of maps.

 

While I don't think this wad is anywhere close to Monochrome Mapping Project, I'm still sore about that one = naturally, I'm gonna advocate for the deadline not being too strict, in case something still needs attention.

 

I wanted to maybe do some graphics, but with the maps still occupying my time/attention it seems like a pipe dream. But I've been looking for a final boss replacement - was Overlord considered?

Share this post


Link to post

Barring any major problems, the majority of the maps are pretty much done as far as I can tell.  It's mostly just adding missing features at this point (full COOP, music, etc) and making sure there aren't any show-stopping bugs in vanilla.  The end of January should be plenty of time if we're just talking about maps.  So long as the remaining mapping work can be finished up by the authors who need to do it (I'm always around to step in and finish stuff if it comes down to it).

 

Extending to the end of January would be really nice for any extra stuff we'd like to work on, like sprites, graphics, music, etc.  It would also be nice for me since I'm probably going to be fairly busy in the latter half of December.  And some extra testing time is always a good thing.

 

All that said, if we need more time past January for whatever reason, there's no doubt that I will extend the deadline for as long as needed.

 

4 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

I wanted to maybe do some graphics, but with the maps still occupying my time/attention it seems like a pipe dream. But I've been looking for a final boss replacement - was Overlord considered?

Yea, Obsidian and I considered it if I remember correctly (we probably thought it was too overused or something).  It would probably fit in pretty well; its a large and detailed sprite and definitely menacing enough.  But I really enjoy the idea of our Motherdemon being based off of the Spider Mastermind since it doesn't make a 'normal' appearance, and having it be the final boss fits the theme of the project. 

 

Although I'm not a huge fan of the sprite we're using (except for the alpha 'mind attack' frame, I thought that worked out really well for the Archvile fire counterattack).  I thought about looking into fraken-spriting something better using the same proportions.  But I don't know if it would have came out better, especially because I can't actually draw very well :P

Share this post


Link to post

Gonna test things now.

 

MAP01

 

- Conveyor texturing is illogical, I'd redo it just a little bit.

 

- Maybe there should be an additional line on the conveyor to open the alcove with snipers? I always jump onto it from the nearby pillars.

 

- Soul sphere lift: there was a misalignment at the bottom I forgot to report; it seems to be gone, but now there's a misalignment at the top.

 

- The amount of bullet ammo is insane (on UV).

 

- Automap hides even more than it should now - door tracks for some reason, and secrets look like holes.

 

MAP02

 

Oh balls. Trying to understand how this map works literally made my brain hurt. The problem where the wrong flat is being assigned might have something to do with linedef numbering, but it's hard to be sure without making my headache worse. I'll look into it later. It is both amusing and terrifying to encounter a map that's hackier than Final Outpost.

 

- I'd use silent sector movement trick where the blue key's at. Voodoo scripting that hurts you and gives you pickups out of the blue is confusing enough.

 

- Maybe crush less barrels when the terraformer terraforms? I'd say much less. The resulting boom is unbearable in headphones.

 

- Also, the crusher keeps humming afterwards. Wouldn't action type 56 work too?

 

Two instances of slight automap garbage.

 

MAP03

 

Inconsistent offsets on the pillars.

 

MAP05

 

This one feels very simplistic compared to some of the other contributions. But not a lot to actually nitpick.

 

Not entirely sold on the alignment here.

 

By the way, I'm on a holy mission to remove FLAT20 from existence, starting with my own maps. Slightly disappointed that other people are using it as much as I did at first, but I guess I can live with that? Not sure.

 

Edited by Da Werecat

Share this post


Link to post

I almost feel like volunteering to overhaul more maps if their authors don't mind. Since I'm interested in this project again, I'd like it to go all the way.

 

MAP06

 

Now yeah, this one needs a facelift. I'm not gonna talk about every single instance of it not looking entirely finished. But I'd be disappointed if the texture scheme was changed in any fundamental way - it's unusual and cool. CEMENT FTW.

 

Not sure how I feel about the inclusion of nukage at the bottom of the maze. It's kinda cruel, but removing it will take something away.

 

I like how the fake 3D area was reworked - I didn't even recognize it. This stuff is why I signed up in the first place.

 

- The door still has a redundant action that makes a sound when you try to open it (but nothing happens).

 

- These bars are separate sectors. One of my pet peeves.

 

- At the end of the level, there's a door that leads back to the start, and it requires the yellow key. Where's the yellow key at? If it's supposed to feel weird and/or hopeless, then I can kinda get behind that, but I'm not sure a lot of people are gonna feel the same way, and I'd like to confirm it wasn't an oversight.

 

- The automap needs work.

 

MAP07

 

Textures aren't aligned in all four corners, but I only noticed in the editor.

 

MAP08

 

Another simple one, if not for the scripting. Buncha misalignments.

 

Then there's constant rattling of floors moving 0 mp. And of course PICKED UP A HEALTH BONUS when none are around. Do we absolutely have to imitate the original 100%? In my opinion, if a hack looks like a hack, it's not worth having.

 

- Missing texture.

 

MAP12

 

- Monster pop-ups off-screen make that rattling again.

 

- This problem is present in the original as well.

 

Why the green sky in MAPINFO, by the way? I think red looks great against green walls.

 

Before I forgot, TEXTURE PACK

 

- Maybe replace TTALL1_2 with this one. Should tile even better.

 

- That "overanimated" SWxDIRT switch - it shouldn't be hard to fix in TEXTURE1.

 

- Perhaps we should make an exception and add the waterfall textures. COMPBLUE looks bad in their place.

 

- RW28_2 and RW36_2 - garbage reduced like in TEKWALL4.

 

Edited by Da Werecat

Share this post


Link to post

MAP13

 

- RATTLESNAKES.

 

MAP14

 

- An occasional hidden button in need of activation sound for consistency.

 

- I think the bottom step on the left wasn't supposed to be bloodied (all others aren't).

 

- Maybe there's a way to improve lighting here?

 

- And texture alignment here.

 

- The key was the only possible light source here.

 

MAP32

 

- Has the usual automap problems.

 

- How do I kill these fucks? They seem to be out of my autoaiming range.

 

- If I go through in this direction, nothing happens. Maybe a second teleporting line?

 

- Sliding door tracks. I remember them from way back when the map was new. Probably unaligned too.

 

- The invisible walkway trick breaks when you approach the last platform for some reason.

 

- I shot myself, and then myself was a zombie.

 

MAP17

 

- Sky again. Maybe I could remedy it by simply adding red fog at the bottom that would blend with the sky at the top.

 

MAP18

 

- Shit forgets to spawn at the star area. Probably because vanilla can't lower the floors when someone is stuck in them? Should use a safer spawner design.

 

- Non-damaging lava?

 

MAP19

 

- Yeah I don't know, maybe it should lower to 8 above the floor instead? I don't like it when flats are mixed like that without height variation.

 

MAP20

 

- Gasp!

 

E2 was consistently very good. E1 had me worried for a moment.

 

I think there's a shortage of shells and comparatively more bullets in this wad. Not sure if bad, considering how overused SSG is. But goat spam is still a thing, and tickling them to death with the chaingun isn't always fun.

 

In the second half it seems to be replaced by a general ammo shortage, especially for heavy weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

I don't like it when flats are mixed like that without height variation.

You're damn right. This is one of my biggest pet peeves of mapping. I hate it when flats randomly change without any height variation. Even though logically it's still fine (a cement wall with cement colored flat lowers into ground), visually it looks like ass.

Share this post


Link to post

@Da Werecat

 

That's my bad, I only tested vanilla limits in Chocolate Doom. I tested the functionality in GzDoom, which is probably why they worked for me.

 

The non-damaging lava was an oversight on my part because I was in a hurry to get the map out the door. I fixed it soon after (but haven't been able to upload a new version). I always wait until my architecture is done before I assign sector damage specials to avoid them carrying over to other sectors.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the reports Da Werecat!  I've been busy lately but I will try to get these logged in the bug tracker soon.

 

On 12/18/2017 at 4:49 AM, Da Werecat said:

Oh balls. Trying to understand how this map works literally made my brain hurt. The problem where the wrong flat is being assigned might have something to do with linedef numbering, but it's hard to be sure without making my headache worse. I'll look into it later. It is both amusing and terrifying to encounter a map that's hackier than Final Outpost.

Heh, yea no kidding.  After getting it set up, I was convinced it wasn't going to be consistent enough.  But its worked every time I've tested it (apart from the one hallway not transferring the water...which I'm pretty sure is a linedef numbering problem like you mentioned). 

 

Concerning voodoo doll usage in general - I would say that it should only be used as a last resort.  Actually I think I'm the only one who has used them (other than in Archvile Hunter's map).  Vanilla seems to be picky about how the player gets damaged by the explosive barrels; in some tests I could set them up in a way that didn't hurt the player at all, but it wasn't consistent.  But that's all tossed out of the window now because ZDaemon required that I move the barrels closer in order to push the player across the line actions.  So I had planned to go back in my maps to see if there was ways I could replicate the voodoo doll actions without actually using them (some maps are gonna have to keep them if they stay as-is though).

Share this post


Link to post

I really liked how it was handled in Burnt Offerings. There was a bunch of health bonus items on the ground, masking the hack. I didn't know it was voodoo until I looked in the editor.

 

Really enjoyed E3. End of January sounds realistic again.

 

MAP21

 

I was pretty sure it was a _bruce_ map - somewhat bland texturing, but weird and cool shapes. Turns out, I was only partially right.

 

- Different flat, same height. Not sure if deliberate.

 

- You can lure a cyberdemon into the teleporter, and then telefrag it. TBH, if not for that, I wouldn't have ammo to kill it properly. This map has very obscure secrets.

 

MAP22


- Automap hole.


- Activates redundant sectors, which results in confusing redundant sounds at the very least.

 

MAP24

 

Gave me some lost desert temple vibes. I thought the fact that the author abandoned the original's creepy fleshy texture theme would bother me, but it didn't. Probably the artsiest map in the set. The lighting is insane.

 

- Usual automap problems. Though the map is clearly not entirely finished.

 

- The way these textures connect doesn't agree with me, but I'll probably live. Still better than FLAT20.

 

- It's not impossible to imitate the original's floating switch tablet, I believe. But it'll probably have to be 128 mp tall. New black texture could help in making it pretty.

 

- This is one of the places where I'm not sure where the light is coming from. Unless that was the idea.

 

MAP25

 

- Slightly off-center?

 

- Some cleaning up maybe. Like action lines or lighting lines (no height change). Since this map has a computer.

 

- Enemies stuck below the floor. Not sure why those sectors are even lowered.

 

MAP28

 

- More rattling.

 

MAP29


- The sound of the elevators is too far from its source, and in this case it's not desirable.

 

Seeing one of the maps in the editor made me think about DM starts. The author had the right idea, although they didn't invent it: just have a separate layout for DM. It seemed identical to the first one aside from (I'm assuming) thing placement. Could always go further and make layout changes: add things, remove things, less doors, get rid of the scripting, and so on. Some loose guidelines.

 

That is, if DM is important. It's just that I don't think anyone will ever DM on these maps in their current state. And of course such an undertaking will take longer than a month.

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

MAP24

- This is one of the places where I'm not sure where the light is coming from. Unless that was the idea. 

Its always best to not overrate real optics

and aesthetics over true visionary style! 

9 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×