Doom 64 for Doom II Respawned! - Build v5 is out! Looking for dedicated testers!

MinerOfWorlds said:

I just hit the limit for linedefs and know if i add more and try to save gzdoom builder crashes and i haven't even finished the base map so i'm not sure what to do.

Nothing. If you hit the linedef limit, all you can do is calm down the map's detail. Considering Velapax is capable of staying under this limit, this is accomplishable.

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Mechadon said:

A couple of reasons. The Mastermind is kind of a boring boss, especially when you are restricted to a map like The Absolution (essentially a big arena). This is a one-time use monster, so it doesn't really affect any of the other maps.


My only real problem with a custom monster in an otherwise vanilla recreation of Doom 64 is that it might make the mapset incompatible with mods that replace the monsters and alter gameplay mechanics, e.g. D4D, MetaDoom, Contra Doom, etc.

Have you considered replacing the Mother Demon with a sizeable force of monsters that do not appear in default Doom 64? Instead of just the Spider Mastermind, there would also be Chaingunners, Revenants and Archviles, and you would have to kill them all in order to beat the level.

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Death Egg said:

I wonder if it'd be possible to get someone to remaster the Mother Demon to look like the original Doom style? Someone like Cage for example. It'd have to be shrunk a bit since the Doom 64 sprites are somewhat larger in scale too.

Well I know Cage is more than capable of doing something like that. Whether or not he has the time or interest is another thing entirely :P.

A repainted Mother Demon sprite that fits the Doom art style would be cool. I would include that in a heartbeat. What I don't want to do is use a straight-up ripped Mother Demon sprite; it clashes way too much with Doom's art style. The way I was thinking about approaching it was to just use the normal Mastermind sprites (or a Mastermind sprite edit) but change its behavior to something like the Motherdemon.

MinerOfWorlds said:

I just hit the limit for linedefs and now if i add more and try to save gzdoom builder crashes and i haven't even finished the base map so i'm not sure what to do.

EDIT: here's the wad file: http://www.mediafire.com/file/qnpf0ydnc7cro1c/MAP11.zip

Hmm, I'm not sure what sort of problem your having. Your nowhere near the linedef limit though, that much I can say for certain. If you can give a bit more information on the problem your having, we can probably help you out.

How much experience do you have with mapping by the way?

Ragnor said:

Playground and Hardcore were much harder to place. Hardcore was the one in the outdoor hell arena right?

Hardcore is the Mancubus+stairs arena map. Playground is the one with Arachnotron's on pedestals with weapons and a bunch of Blursphere's scattered everywhere. Both are really simple maps with very simple gimmicks. And I think that's why they are hard to place. I was trying to think of them as Tower of Babel analogues, where the player is presented with a straightforward fight in simple arenas at the end of a bulk.

Placing Hardcore at the end of the 3rd bulk seems like it will work ok. But Playground has to compete with some strong contenders in the final bulk. Since The Absolution is just another arena map, I didn't want to put it right before that. Unholy Temple and No Escape feel like they should stay close to The Absolution. So that only place where it seems to be is somewhere in the middle (for a bit of variety). Honestly it could be moved back to MAP25 and be just fine there too, I think. Though on second thought, maybe it should stay where it is so its not too close to The Spiral (another arena~ish map).

Thanks for your work on the map ordering by the way! I think you did a great job coming up with making a logical reordering of the Doom 64 maps that fits the Doom II progression :)

JohnnyTheWolf said:

My only real problem with a custom monster in an otherwise vanilla recreation of Doom 64 is that it might make the mapset incompatible with mods that replace the monsters and alter gameplay mechanics, e.g. D4D, MetaDoom, Contra Doom, etc.

Have you considered replacing the Mother Demon with a sizeable force of monsters that do not appear in default Doom 64? Instead of just the Spider Mastermind, there would also be Chaingunners, Revenants and Archviles, and you would have to kill them all in order to beat the level.

I understand, that's a valid concern. Though ultimately I have to think of the project first and any gameplay modifications second. If there's a way to have both, then I'll definitely work to make that happen. Some of the dehacked work is going to be replicated in DECORATE (so we can add things like new obituary messages). So there might be ways to keep gameplay modifications working with that.

I'm still waiting to discuss MAP30 ideas with Fisk, so I won't rule out your ideas of having Doom II specific monsters at the end. I honestly would prefer a straight-up boss fight though :P

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Mechadon said:

Hmm, I'm not sure what sort of problem your having. Your nowhere near the linedef limit though, that much I can say for certain. If you can give a bit more information on the problem your having, we can probably help you out.

How much experience do you have with mapping by the way?


I don't have much experience mapping and non with doom's format.

anyway i just deleted some unneeded lines to fix this here's the file: http://www.mediafire.com/file/esfp3k1p7klsynl/MAP11.zip

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That's ok MinerOfWorlds, just keep at it. If you need some more help with the map, consider finding a partner who can work with you :)

I've updated the link to your map in the OP with the new version.

*edit*

By the way, I've marked Pedro VC's and BaronOfStuff's submission as "Open for Editing". So if something needs to be cleaned up or fixed on those maps, someone can claim them to do that work.

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

My only real problem with a custom monster in an otherwise vanilla recreation of Doom 64 is that it might make the mapset incompatible with mods that replace the monsters and alter gameplay mechanics, e.g. D4D, MetaDoom, Contra Doom, etc.


This is the exact argument i made when you said Mutiny should have custom monsters.

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Mechadon said:

I understand, that's a valid concern. Though ultimately I have to think of the project first and any gameplay modifications second.


I am most likely going to play this mapset regardless. ;)

40oz said:

This is the exact argument i made when you said Mutiny should have custom monsters.


Mutiny is not a recreation of Doom 64 maps using vanilla assets.

And Doom 64 is not about a rogue cyborg on a revenge mission against the UAC.

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I would like to edit MAP18 Spawned Fear.

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Did you find something wrong with it? Or are you looking to improve it? Those maps are open mostly so that someone can be responsible for fixing bugs and making improvements.

If that's what your planning on doing, then I can give the slot to you.

By the way guys, I'm going to be putting together a new test build tonight using the proposed map order from HERE. I will probably be pretty bare bones at first (just map, no graphics or anything extra) so that we can get people testing as soon as possible.

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I wanted to improve it but it wasn't a one to one port (or as much as it can be) so now i'm remaking it from scratch to make it more like the original.

and what format can we use? the wad was in boom format.

I updated Terror Core so i need to send that to you.

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Hmm, I don't think we should start digging into totally replacing already submitted maps. We need to do some testing and get some feedback first before doing things that drastic. Wait a bit and let's get some comments on what's done already first.

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Since I have been working on a faithful TC of Doom 64 to GZDoom, you can be sure that I've played the shit out of the original maps, which naturally means I know everything that happens on the maps and how they happen.

I can offer some solid advice for map behavior once there's a fresh testing build. I know not all Doom 64 effects are doable in vanilla, so that will obviously be kept in mind. I guess what I mean is I can offer suggestions and such for the way the map actually plays in comparison to the original.

The project is looking good and glad that it has risen from the dead!

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(weird, I swear I already posted this)

Hey Mechadon and others, just wanted to pop in to say my old Map02 for this project is long lost due to a crash I had some time ago. It seems like it was never uploaded either, so the work is well and truly lost :(

A few people have PMed me asking about this map over the last few months, so this is the answer to everyone. It blows!

Good luck with this project Mechadon, I'm sure with you piloting it will end up awesome.

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I'm not sure if anyone ever made these or if the newer compiled pack from CoTeCiO has them but I made them anyway.

Behold! CWILVs in vanilla Doom font!

Spoiler


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More updates incoming!

First things first, I have a brand-new test build ready to go for you guys.

D64D2 Build02172017

This should contain the latest versions of all the maps (including the ones that I could dig up from old builds and download links). In addition there are new sky textures, Nevander's CWILV graphics, some new music, other other things.

There's a MAPINFO lump which, among other things, defines some sky variants for certain maps. If you guys can remember, in Doom 64 many of the hell maps had different sky textures (a stormy blue sky, a dusty brown sky, etc). I spent a bit of time making some variants of the SKY2 by Da Werecat so those maps can use those variants. They somewhat follow their Doom 64 counterparts. Except for the SKY3 variant, which is just a really crappy coloring of this sky. These might just be placeholders for now (though SKY1 is probably final). It will depend on what Da Werecat is up to making.

The wad will load in Chocolate Doom, and I idclev'd through all of them without any issue. I do not know if they will all play yet though. This is something that we will need to heavily test in the future.

Also, not all of the maps can be completed. Some seem to be broken and others just aren't finished yet. So keep that in mind.

Oh, and the maps are now using this ordering. I've updated the map list in the OP to reflect that.

I will be getting a resource wad up in the near future, hopefully once the dehacked gets hammered out.


In other news, I just need to hear from a few more people so that the map list can be totally up-to-date (those people would be _bruce_, Fisk, and ArchvileHunter).

The MAP03 slot is in a semi-limbo state at the moment, and it may open up. Da Werecat's submission makes use of new textures, and currently is the only map in the pack to make use of them. If the map stays, it will need to be vanilla-ized (the version that CoTeCiO did looks very sloppy, no offense). I'm leaving the decision on what to do with it up to Da Werecat.

Lastly, I think I will be giving some preliminary feedback on visuals and gameplay sometime soon. There are a few maps that could really use some visual polish in areas (nothing drastic, just enough to make them nice looking). If I manage to get the free time, I may go through some of them and do a bit of polishing (for the ones that aren't claimed, that is).

Doomkid said:

(weird, I swear I already posted this)

Hey Mechadon and others, just wanted to pop in to say my old Map02 for this project is long lost due to a crash I had some time ago. It seems like it was never uploaded either, so the work is well and truly lost :(

A few people have PMed me asking about this map over the last few months, so this is the answer to everyone. It blows!

Good luck with this project Mechadon, I'm sure with you piloting it will end up awesome.

Hey Doomkid! Thanks a ton for the clarification. Blastfrog got back to me via PM and cleared up things a bit; I guess at some point both of you were working on a MAP02. Following the history of the project from the old thread was kind of confusing, so I might have gotten people mixed up a bit. It sucks to hear your lost your map, that's one of the worst things that can happen :/

Anyways, I appreciate the luck. If your interested in contributing again, I would definitely love to have you on board ;)

Nevander said:

I can offer some solid advice for map behavior once there's a fresh testing build. I know not all Doom 64 effects are doable in vanilla, so that will obviously be kept in mind. I guess what I mean is I can offer suggestions and such for the way the map actually plays in comparison to the original.

This would be super helpful! I'm pretty familiar with Doom 64 too, but I don't know every single detail :P. Having you on board with your knowledge would be extremely helpful. I would just say that try and allow a bit of wiggle room for the author's creativity, even when thinking about the vanilla work-arounds. A few creative liberties in places is an ok thing, I think.

Oh and thanks a ton for the CWILVs, that was very nice of you! I've already integrated them into the test build.

So should I mark you down as a tester?

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Mechadon said:

So should I mark you down as a tester?

Sure, since I just started testing.

I am getting a crash though consistently on MAP01 (maybe more, I can't get past MAP01 yet w/o it doing this) in Chocolate Doom 2.0.0.0

W_CacheLumpNum: 1903309 >= numlumps
It may be my version of Chocolate Doom is too old, but not sure.
Updated to 2.3.0 of Choco Doom and still doing it...

EDIT: Main Engineering played fine, but it crashed same message near the end of Holding Area

EDIT 2: and crashed same message yet again at the acid area of Research Lab

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Nevander said:

Chocolate Doom 2.0.0.0

Updated to 2.3.0 of Choco Doom and still doing it...

ROFL

- The wad currently runs in PrBoom+ and ZDoom


Damn I always laugh when people does not READ THE README FILE.

UPD: Ok, checked it out. I will rework my Map07. I'll place exit in another place and change textures to techbase-like set.

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DeXiaZ said:

ROFL

Damn I always laugh when people does not READ THE README FILE.

Wtf? The point is to run it in vanilla...

Mechadon said:

The wad will load in Chocolate Doom, and I idclev'd through all of them without any issue. I do not know if they will all play yet though. This is something that we will need to heavily test in the future.

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Nevander said:

Wtf? The point is to run it in vanilla...

The point of this PROJECT (idea) is run it in vanilla.

But not the unstable beta-build! So you're still guilty :p Because everyone MUST read the readme file.

<!> IMPORTANT THING <!>
I've reworked my Map07 map so it's totally different now. It uses new exit and now I've fixed Visplane problems. Also I did a retexture work.

DOWNLOAD: https://yadi.sk/d/l1bdy-_y3EET7E

Video: https://youtu.be/5dAfnKi1GI0

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The build definitely does need to be tested in vanilla (chocolate doom or, preferably, chocorenderlimits). I just wasn't guaranteeing that all of the maps were crash-free, only that the wad and all of the maps loaded. We need to know which maps have issues in vanilla sooner rather than later. So yes, please test it in vanilla.

You guys can test in other ports too, of course. Feedback from them is still relative to the project. And if a map is crashing in vanilla, then consider running it in another port so its still possible to give feedback. Its just that vanilla errors are likely to be the biggest hurdle here, so do as much testing in vanilla as possible.

@DeXiaZ: Thank you for the map update! When I get a chance I will update the link in the OP.

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It's nice to see that this project will hopefully be finished soon.

Progress is being made on Alpha Quadrant, although it is very slow. Trying to recreate an existing level accurately turned out to be tougher than I had originally anticipated, and Alpha Quadrant has a lot of quirks that are really tough to emulate in vanilla.

I'll try to have the map ready in the coming weeks.

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Hey thanks for the update ArchvileHunter! I will update the map list in the OP :)

Those raising bridge platforms in that map will be a challenge to get working, I bet. Unless you figured out a different way to approach it. I'm going to be looking forward to what you come up with!

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Please don't make stealth changes like making shotgunners faster, rockets faster, lost souls more aggressive etc.

Making the chaingun faster I'm ok with, but only if you change its sprites so it looks like the D64 chaingun.

I don't like hidden/subtle changes to Doom's gameplay. Just my 2c. There are so many Doom 64 projects that are faithful, just keep this one faithful to Doom. (The venerable Doom 64 chaingun may be needed to deal with all those Hellknights, though, Doom's is too weak)

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I appreciate your input VGA. The plan is to experiment with changes first, and then go from there. More than likely those changes won't make it in; my only plans were for a new boss, nightmare Imp, and maybe a faster Chaingun. Anything else is just a "let's play around with it and see" (although I admit, some weaker but more aggressive Lost Souls might be a good change too...I prefer them to vanilla ones, but that's just me).

Just to emphasize again, since I think some people might think I want to do a bunch of gameplay tweaks, any changes we try are experimental.

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I am OK with changed monsters/weapons that look different. Nightmare imp replacing SS Nazi would be cool, for example.

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I think the new enemies should be the only main change, with any others stuffed in a second, optional add-on DEHACKED patch.

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Question: is the project going to use the default Doom II soundtrack or a full MIDI-fied version of Doom 64 soundtrack (assuming that is doable)?

Also, some feedback regarding MAP01: it does not seem possible to get 100% kills as of now. I can hear the two elusive enemies hiding behind walls at the starting point, but I am not sure how I am supposed to get them.

Also, is it normal if the secret exit currently leads me to The Terraformer?

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Death Egg said:

I think the new enemies should be the only main change, with any others stuffed in a second, optional add-on DEHACKED patch.

This seems like a good idea to consider! We'll see how things pan out :)

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Question: is the project going to use the default Doom II soundtrack or a full MIDI-fied version of Doom 64 soundtrack (assuming that is doable)?

Also, some feedback regarding MAP01: it does not seem possible to get 100% kills as of now. I can hear the two elusive enemies hiding behind walls at the starting point, but I am not sure how I am supposed to get them.

Also, is it normal if the secret exit currently leads me to The Terraformer?

I want to avoid using any Doom or Doom II tracks. And I'm actively seeking musicians to contribute new tracks to the project. They don't have to be pure dark ambient pieces, just something more fitting of a hybrid Doom 64/Doom II mapset. Fisk did a couple of tracks which are in the latest build, and I really like them.

Concerning MAP01, from what I gathered from the old thread, I think Fisk was working on updating it. So those things you mentioned might be fixed by now. But I haven't gotten in touch with Fisk yet, so I'm not sure.

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So far, all the maps have been near-perfect recreations of their respective Doom 64 counterpart - with the rather puzzling exception of MAP03, which feels like a complete reimagining. Why is that? I mean, do not get me wrong: it is a good map in itself, but it is just too different from the original. :/

EDIT #1: MAP05's crate-jumping puzzle with the Backpack seems impossible, as the raisable crate does not go high enough to allow to straferun to the next crate.

EDIT #2: I seem unable to get 100% kills on MAP07. I killed all hidden Pain Elementals, yet I just cannot find the final enemy.

Mildly negative feedback aside, playing this build is really exciting! It feels like discovering a lost Doom II mission pack.

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