Doom 64 for Doom II - v1.4 released, /idgames link is up

[Da Werecat]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

So far, all the maps have been near-perfect recreations of their respective Doom 64 counterpart - with the rather puzzling exception of MAP03, which feels like a complete reimagining. Why is that?

At that point I wasn't interested in the project's original goals anymore. I didn't want to be constrained by the original layouts or the Doom 2 texture set. That map was an experiment.

If I was to work on something like this now, I think I would drift even further away from what's expected from a D64D2 map.

[Xeogred]

This is an awesome idea! I'll check it out once the full package is complete, I love Doom 64 so this will be an interesting way to go through it again.

What I would certainly love to see someday though are some Doom 64 styled megawads.

[Dexiaz]

Xeogred said:

What I would certainly love to see someday though are some Doom 64 styled megawads.

Try Dissolution. Also I'm working (slowly) on this.

[NiGHTMARE]

Re: the final boss, perhaps you could use the Arachnorb Queen sprites that are on the Realm 667 bestiary?

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Why not just use the Mother Demon itself? I could be wrong, but I do not think it would really look out of place in Doom II.

Or better yet, the final boss could be a custom version of the Spider Mastermind that would behave just like the Mother Demon and would make use of the unimplemented animation John Romero revealed not so long ago.

[Dexiaz]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Why not just use the Mother Demon itself? I could be wrong, but I do not think it would really look out of place in Doom II.

Or better yet, the final boss could be a custom version of the Spider Mastermind that would behave just like the Mother Demon and would make use of the unimplemented animation John Romero revealed not so long ago.

https://doomwiki.org/w/images/thumb/8/8b/Magic2_1.png/250px-Magic2_1.png

Mother Demon is Doom 64 styled demon. If we've got an art-artist who can redraw her to make more like Doom1|2ish - ok, we can use it.

Spider Mastermind as Final Boss is uninventive. Even with new sprite animations.

NiGHTMARE offered brilliant idea to use ARACNORB QUEEN from Realm667:


She is flying like Mother Demon. Her attacks we can implement in dehacked patch.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

But that is my point: I do not think the Mother Demon would stand out from the default Doom bestiary, as its character design is fairly close to classic Doom and it does not have an equivalent like the other Doom 64 monsters.

I do find it ironic that you would dismiss out of hand my idea of using an upgraded Spider Mastermind with the ability to summon monsters as unoriginal... while supporting the use of a monster that is basically a modified Spider Mastermind. I guess we are all in an agreement, then! ;)

[Dexiaz]

Doom 1 last boss was a Spider Mastermind
Doom 2 last boss was the Icon of Sin
Doom 3 64 64DII last boss is a Spider Mastermind.

No. I don't like this. It should be a totally new enemy.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

The Aracnorb Queen would not be a totally new enemy either, as it is basically a variant of the Spider Mastermind. :/

[Da Werecat]

Mother Demon sprites will have to be resized and molested to death before they'll fit the aesthetic.

Then there's the question of what kind of attacks she'll have. Vanilla wad = literally nothing original is allowed in the attack department.

[Jayextee]

How about a Spider Mastermind with infinity health? Even then, a player will be able to eventually kill her before DeXiaZ and JohnnyTheWolf come to some kind of agreement. ;)

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Well, as I pointed out, we already are in an agreement, it seems. :P

[Jayextee]

Heh.

Incidentally, that Aracnorb Queen thingy scares the ever-living fuck outta me. Dat grin tho. So I guess I wouldn't personally mind killing that fucker at the end of this. ;)

[JohnnyTheWolf]

I do not think it is a grin, though. If you look closely enough, it is the same mouth as the Spider Mastermind, only with a horn on each side a la Predator.

But yeah, that monster would make for a good compromise between Doom 64 and Doom. Just like this project, in a sense!

[Mechadon]

It's nice to see continuing interest in this :)

Alright, so I've got a few updates to bring up first. I talked a bit with Da Werecat, and I think its best that we drop his MAP03. It was making use of a lot of custom textures and it was also a bit of a departure from the original MAP03. The custom textures were the main reason I dropped it; I didn't mind that it wasn't a carbon copy of MAP03, although the precedent has been set that the maps stay somewhat faithful to their Doom 64 counterparts. So yea, this map has been dropped.

I felt bad about doing this, so I took a day to make a new MAP03 replacement.


Main Engineering V1

It should be feature-complete, so all it needs is some good testing runs. I haven't done any stringent limit testing yet since my free time has been short lately, so I could use some help there.

In other news, a new build + a resource wad should come shortly. I'm working on fixing some vanilla bugs, so once those are taken care of I'll drop a new build. The resource wad is going to be more of a quality-of-life thing at first. But once we get the dehacked work in, it will be mandatory to use while mapping.

Thanks to everyone who has helped test this so far! Please remember that this build is likely to be unstable in vanilla; we need all of those bug reported. Please consider running the maps in ChocoRenderLimits, that way we can know if the maps are crashing because of VPOs or for other reasons. Also don't hesitate to give any gameplay-related feedback as well!

Concerning the Mother Demon sprites, I know this much: I'm not going to be using the ripped Doom 64 sprites unless they get a complete paint-over to match Doom's art style. It clashes way too much in my opinion. Our best bet is to repurpose the vanilla Mastermind sprites or use a sprite edit.

Last thing - I'm looking for musicians! Viscra Maelstrom has expressed some interest in doing some tracks, but we will need some more musicians to fill in some slots. So if your interested in doing some dark, creepy midi music, let me know ;)

NiGHTMARE said:

Re: the final boss, perhaps you could use the Arachnorb Queen sprites that are on the Realm 667 bestiary?

This is a pretty good idea I think! I actually used those sprites in Counterattack for the final boss, so I'm already a fan of them :D. So the Arachnorb Queen will probably be at the top of my list.

[Death Egg]

Da Werecat said:

Mother Demon sprites will have to be resized and molested to death before they'll fit the aesthetic.

Perhaps we could convince Cage they're another enemy needed to be converted to Supplice and take it from there... ;)

[Mechadon]

I'll bring it up to Cage and we'll see what he says. Don't hold your breathe though, I know he's pretty busy with a bunch of different projects, not just Supplice.

Here's another quick update for you guys. I cleaned up and tweaked BaronOfStuff's MAP20 submission. It has a bit more detailing and should be better balanced (the HK/Baron fight at the end was way too difficult in my opinion, and there wasn't really enough ammo...so they are reserved for COOP-only players). There's also some extra COOP additions, including more monsters and ammo. Grab it here: Hardcore V2.

In other news, I've heard back from Z86 and his submission should be ready for testing. He said that he never made a version of Eye of the Storm, so that should clear up any confusion concerning that slot.

I'm still waiting to hear back from _bruce_ and Fisk. If anyone happens to know how to get in touch with those guys, please let them know that I've sent them PMs.

[Da Werecat]

Mechadon said:

I felt bad about doing this, so I took a day to make a new MAP03 replacement.

I approve. Nice texturing.

Maybe a little cramped, which is one of my main concerns when it comes to my own contributions as well.

[Death Egg]

Mechadon said:

I'll bring it up to Cage and we'll see what he says. Don't hold your breathe though, I know he's pretty busy with a bunch of different projects, not just Supplice.

Yeah I figure he likely won't, I know he has at least Ken's Labyrinth II, Hacx 2.0, and his own project under his belt at the moment, let alone any others I don't know of ATM.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

One criticism regarding the new Main Engineering version: there is no Backpack spawning in the starting area. Also, why is there a Hell Knight in the large room with all the Armour and Health bonuses?

Finally, I have not figured out how to lower the pole holding the Green Armour.

Aside from that, it is a pretty good recreation of the original map!

[Mechadon]

Da Werecat said:

I approve. Nice texturing.

Maybe a little cramped, which is one of my main concerns when it comes to my own contributions as well.

Thanks :)

I pretty much copied the main architecture verbatim from the Doom 64 version. Though because the gameplay is a bit faster, it feels more cramped. I could probably widen some of the corridors a bit, but I'll need to do some actual stress testing to make sure I don't break any limits by doing so.

JohnnyTheWolf said:

One criticism regarding the new Main Engineering version: there is no Backpack spawning in the starting area. Also, why is there a Hell Knight in the large room with all the Armour and Health bonuses?

Finally, I have not figured out how to lower the pole holding the Green Armour.

Aside from that, it is a pretty good recreation of the original map!

I made a few changes that I felt improved the gameplay a bit. The backpack is part of a secret that's somewhat near the start; the GA is part of that secret as well. The Hell Knight is there to provide a tiny bit more resistance for that final key ambush; he blocks the way back to the RK and is some good RL fodder.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Okay! Thanks for the hint.

Also, what are the current plans for the Unmaker?

[Mechadon]

Unless I'm missing out on some kind of super secret dehacked trick, there's no way we'll get to have a new weapon without replacing any of the existing weapons. So I'd say that including the Unmaker or the Demon artifacts is going to be very unlikely :P

[baja blast rd.]

DeXiaZ said:

Mother Demon is Doom 64 styled demon. If we've got an art-artist who can redraw her to make more like Doom1|2ish - ok, we can use it.

Spider Mastermind as Final Boss is uninventive. Even with new sprite animations.

NiGHTMARE offered brilliant idea to use ARACNORB QUEEN from Realm667:
http://realm667.com/images/content/repository/beastiary/AracnorbQueen.png

She is flying like Mother Demon. Her attacks we can implement in dehacked patch.

Here is a vid of a 1-hr speedmap of mine that uses the arachnorb queen. (Here it has 2000 HP and a somewhat insane speed value.) :D I actually wonder if there are any other wads that use it.

[Death Egg]

I think I saw screenshots of older versions of Supplice that used it? I might be thinking of the wrong mod. Also, didn't Valiant have it too? Or was it just the small ones?

[Nevander]

Death Egg said:

Also, didn't Valiant have it too? Or was it just the small ones?

Nah that was just the small ones, the non-Queen Arachnorbs. Annoying little buggers too.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Mechadon said:

Unless I'm missing out on some kind of super secret dehacked trick, there's no way we'll get to have a new weapon without replacing any of the existing weapons. So I'd say that including the Unmaker or the Demon artifacts is going to be very unlikely :P

Well then, I guess I will have to play this mapset with zrrion the insect's 64k+ mod. As I pointed out, this project seems like a perfect companion piece! :)

[MinerOfWorlds]

New Terror Core update:http://www.mediafire.com/file/ia5szjy5uaq6fa4/MAP11.zip it's now ready for testing.

[Mechadon]

Sorry for the lack of updates guys, I've been sick lately. I do have a bit more news to bring up.

Obsidian should be working on the dehacked patch. I'm going to wait until he's done with that before dropping another compiled test build.

I also have some map updates to post. I fixed a couple of minor bugs in MAP20: Hardcore; you can grab the latest version here - http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/mekastuff/wads/D64D2/maps/BaronOfStuff&Mechadon-Hardcore-v3.wad

While I was at it, I went ahead and updated two more of BaronOfStuff's small arena maps - MAP11: Cat and Mouse & MAP26: Playground.

Cat and Mouse needed to be re-textured to match the rest of the techbases, so I started doing that. I ended up doing quite an extensive detailing job on it though. The gameplay elements are pretty much the same aside from COOP additions and some minor tweaks. You can grab this map here - http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/mekastuff/wads/D64D2/maps/BaronOfStuff&Mechadon-CatAndMouse-v2.wad

Today I did the same with Playground, though this time much less extensive. I fixed a VPO I found and I went ahead and cleaned up the visuals a bit too. COOP additions were added. And the gameplay was also changed around so that it resembles its Doom 64 counterpart better. You can grab this map here - http://mekworx.the-powerhouse.net/mekastuff/wads/D64D2/maps/BaronOfStuff&Mechadon-Playground-v2.wad

Just a note about all three of those maps. Currently you can exit the maps very early on. This will change once the dehacked patch is done; the Cyberdemon will get the Keen death codepointer which will open up the doors leading to the exit triggers. So for now, just pretend that you aren't allowed to exit until you kill the Cybers :P

MinerOfWorlds said:

New Terror Core update:http://www.mediafire.com/file/ia5szjy5uaq6fa4/MAP11.zip it's now ready for testing.

Thank you! I've updated the map list with your latest version.

[MinerOfWorlds]

I just tested my map and i messed up one of the doors needed to exit so i'll make a new version soon.

EDIT: here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ia5szjy5uaq6fa4/MAP11.zip