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Mechadon

Doom 64 for Doom II - v1.4 released, /idgames link is up

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Rename it to ZMAPINFO and make something simple that ZDaemon can understand?

 

I noticed a long time ago that MAPINFO wasn't working, simply because the custom skies weren't working. I just assumed that ZDaemon was obsolete like that.

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Ok I think all music issues should be fixed with this MAPINFO for Zdaemon: https://pastebin.com/ijGpd9jM

Just do a diff with the original MAPINFO to see the changes. We can load this in a 2nd wad for zdaemon. This should mean that the rest of the MAPINFO is parsed so music as well as sky's should be fixed also.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cbazdiu11xspyxk/ducks-D64D2_build_v8-mapinfo-20180210.wad?dl=0

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Yea I figured out the compat options were part of the problem shortly after you mentioned the music on MAP33 not playing.  Can ZDaemon really not parse the custerdef stuff though?  Well I guess I should just test it and find out :P.  But having a MAPINFO patch for ZDaemon shouldn't be an issue.  Thank you again damo2k!

 

Quote

map30 - monsters spawn in at this location, even after we use all 3 keys. Is this intensional?

Yea, I added it just for COOP for some extra difficulty.  There were originally a couple more (1 for each difficulty if I remember correctly), but I cut them out because it was easy to reach the vissprite limit.

Edited by Mechadon

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Reposting things not related to Mechadon (which is not a lot, apparently).

 

MAP06 Outpost Omega

 

https://i.imgur.com/WV2IqM1.png
Not very fond of when it has to tile, but nothing too bad, I suppose?

 

https://i.imgur.com/htmKMZI.png
https://i.imgur.com/xsdmMae.png

 

https://i.imgur.com/89sh1yB.png
Some lines in need of a 1-sided flag.

 

https://i.imgur.com/jqi6dkj.png
Brown tekwall - not sure if intended, reporting just in case.

 

Maybe the red door should lock the player again, but unlock somehow after the exit is reached. Maybe a switch would appear, or something along these lines. That secret corridor at the end is a decent candidate. Just an idea.

 

https://i.imgur.com/a1Pi2NI.png
Probably not a big deal, but such repeating elements make this unaligned texture more noticeable.

 

MAP12 The Bleeding

 

I'd work on marble alignment in the starting room, but this is a very minor nitpick.

 

Sector 221: SR instead of DR, which makes it impossible to reverse the direction of the door mid-movement. The only reason I can imagine is to prevent monsters from opening it (they can't open fast doors, but this one is slow).
 

MAP31 Hectic

 

Hidden switches in need of sound effects.

 

8/5 secrets? Maybe don't add secret effect to the 4 damaging sectors. I understand the desire to show off a neat trick, but in this case it blows up. Would be better to just have it pre-set on sector 220.

 

Launching the soul sphere crusher reveals the health potion nearby. Looks slightly broken. Could make sector 222 match the size of the potion, then it will stay in place.

 

Having an empty, rattling DM layout open up in SP is confusing at best.
 

---

 

Posting new things.

 

MAP32 In The Void

 

Automap.

 

Line 1249 has ROCKRED1 on it. Should be ZZZBLACK, otherwise looks bad when the exit is revealed.

 

I liked the previous exit more, too bad it was broken.

 

Maybe the map could use some darkening to simulate the fog.

 

https://i.imgur.com/me4WnD9.png

Black foundation occludes part of a baron cube.

 

MAP17 Eye of the Storm

 

I'm thinking maybe sectors 90 and 127 should be activated at the same time, and then there won't be need for lines 2892 and 2893, that do nothing unless you come from the other side.

 

MAP18 Dark Entries

 

felgro will love this map. :)

 

I'm still concerned about the big spawners, but for a different reason. If someone fails to spawn, what happens? Isn't there a little too much space to tumble around?

 

Four small spawners on the western side are still broken. Testing with -complevel 2 revealed some floors can't lower.

 

I think the ending would be funnier if the arch-vile teleported into the middle of the hall. Though I think I already did that too many times.

 

Impassable lines in front of pain elementals - intentional? Will this work in all engines?

 

I'd stick some imps on lower difficulties in those alcoves. It's weird when they open dramatically, but there's no one there.

 

Inaudible secret buttons. And I'd make those sectors in the start room instant.

 

And you can see their pickups through the floor from outside the room.

 

https://i.imgur.com/UIf6Dj2.png

I don't like SKINMET1 here.

 

Tag 9 bars could be made silent. They lower off-screen anyway. But they make a loud sound afterwards due to the presence of a DM-specific line.

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MAP19 Blood Keep

 

Line 1108: should be marked as 1-sided.

 

Lines near sector 334 (skylight): a lot of sky lines that aren't hidden.

 

MAP20 Hardcore

 

Line 779 was visible in my playthrough, but nothing around it. Teleporter lines are revealed, if it's important to you.

 

MAP21 Watch Your Step

 

Needs some serious automap cleaning due to the presence of a computer powerup.

 

Line 2134 has a redundant action activating the opposing door. Only slightly later did I learn that it's supposed to be activated by a switch nearby.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about some imps teleporting to the start area immediately after you shoot the switch. It's a little distracting, and being distracted with backtracking breaks the maps's flow somewhat.

 

Secret teleporter line 224: automap makes it very visible in PrBoom+. I don't know if it's useful, but I'm mentioning it just in case.

 

I managed to get the berserk 31 without activating the trap. The only problem would be, of course, if I was going for 100% and wondering where the last monster is hiding.

 

Why do we need to bring the baron out the floor if we can just teleport it? We don't need a gunshot anymore - that switch takes care of it.

 

MAP22 Spawned Fear

 

Sector 274: lines need to be flagged.

 

Line 1074: I suggest to change the action to 71 so that there's still some justification for the thin ray of light after the passage has been opened.

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MAP24 Breakdown

 

I'd rather test a finished version when it arrives.

 

MAP25 Pitfalls

 

Some more automap cleaning perhaps. An occasional grey line. Computer, etc.

 

MAP26 Playground

 

https://i.imgur.com/a52Y7js.png
It's a bird! It's a plane! I have no idea how he got there, but he wasn't alone.

 

MAP27 Burnt Offerings

 

https://i.imgur.com/icWrmzs.png

https://i.imgur.com/dhi3yiG.png

Weird and/or insufficient automapage.

 

MAP28 Unholy Temple

 

https://i.imgur.com/6VvjL2f.png
No light source.

 

I'm thinking maybe set some block monster flags on 3D bridges? I didn't run into any problems (aside from one line skip), but if a monster wanders somewhere at a wrong time, a segment might not ascend.

 

I think the midtex trick near the exit is nice, but I didn't notice it until the editor, and after that it was hard to unsee its side effects. I made a few edits and made it look good in vanilla, but freelook still ruins it, arguably even worse.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10CsZwJbCeO4T53BZaM2moOXFVvSA_o15

 

I think the easiest way would be to just discard the midtextures and leave it simple and clean.

 

MAP29 No Escape

 

Automap shenanigans.

 

MAP30 The Absolution

 

Maybe some automap work. Lines 2063, 1909, 2019 = 1-sided?

 

Can't you also crush the monster spawners so they don't spawn anything anymore? You'd have to alter their properties in DEHACKED, of course.

 

The "empty" sounds of the spawner are not empty. In fact, the popping they make is pretty loud.

 

---

 

I'm getting tired of this (I CAN HEAR YOU SIGH IN RELIEF) so I skipped testing of some of the late maps on all difficulty settings. Which means I only made one run, not three. Which is regrettable, but maybe I'll do it later.

 

I didn't write anything about MAP14 not because it's perfect, but because I'm still deciding on what's worth changing and what isn't. When I looked into it, small issues kept piling up until I put it aside to do other maps.

 

Edited by Da Werecat

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@Megalyth Hey lemme know if you need/want me to update your map for you.  We don't have a release deadline just yet, so you don't have to worry about that in the short term (but the sooner you can make your updates, the better).

 

9 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

Can't you also crush the monster spawners so they don't spawn anything anymore? You'd have to alter their properties in DEHACKED, of course.

I had this idea at one point, but didn't follow through with it for some reason.  I assume all I would need to do is give it properties similar to a monster so that it can go into a death state?  Killing the spawners would be preferable to crushing monsters forever.

 

9 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

The "empty" sounds of the spawner are not empty. In fact, the popping they make is pretty loud.

It figures this would only work in Chocolate Doom and not the other ports.  Actually it would probably make more sense to just blank out the sounds in the dehacked/decorate instead of using empty sound files.

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Looking forward to this the most out of all the projects out there. Just need to get a computer able to handle Doom ports (weird thing, but this computer HATES Doom ports and cant run anything except 64EX for some bizarre reason)

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8 hours ago, Mechadon said:

I assume all I would need to do is give it properties similar to a monster so that it can go into a death state?

Well, it needs a Shootable flag, and it needs an Obstacle flag (otherwise ZDoom won't recognize it as crushable) - in theory. This needs to be checked out, of course. There are other flags that control clipping, IIRC.

 

8 hours ago, Mechadon said:

Actually it would probably make more sense to just blank out the sounds in the dehacked/decorate instead of using empty sound files.

I thought those sounds were hardcoded in the actions.

 

By the way, I broke the red door in Terraformer. It won't close until the barrels are dead.

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I'm gonna do some testing soon to see if the crushable spawners is a doable thing.  Not sure about the spawners sounds to be honest, so I'll just test that out too while I'm at it (something tells me there's a reason why I used empty sounds instead of blanking them in the dehacked...).

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Is it possible to have the wall in front of Map01's "coop" switch reappear when the player on the other side of the bars lowers them again? I understand the necessity for it the be there, especially with vanilla limitations, but if it's hidden when its function is no longer necessary then someone playing single player won't feel like they were taken out of the game for a moment when they see it. I imagine there are other instances of switches like that throughout the wad, and they may have to be handled in different ways.

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@Mechadon

 

Nah I got it, just had to space things out a bit and reshape a few spawn closets. I swear I've never even encountered that "linedefs too close to monsters" bug until like two years ago, and now it seems to plague me at every turn.

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2 hours ago, SiFi270 said:

Is it possible to have the wall in front of Map01's "coop" switch reappear when the player on the other side of the bars lowers them again? I understand the necessity for it the be there, especially with vanilla limitations, but if it's hidden when its function is no longer necessary then someone playing single player won't feel like they were taken out of the game for a moment when they see it. I imagine there are other instances of switches like that throughout the wad, and they may have to be handled in different ways.

I can look into this.  However sometimes this is difficult to do in a way that a SP player will never see it (outside of using voodoo dolls, which is excessive in vanilla).  I agree that its probably better to hide the COOP switches after they are no longer useful, and especially so for singleplayer games.  It was a low priority for me just because it can be a headache.

 

@Megalyth Ok sounds good!  Just let me know if you need any help.

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Nice to see that the faux-Archvile works with -nomonsters.  I actually had to double-check that it was showing up properly because it didn't work for me at first.  Until I realized that I needed to fire a weapon to wake the thing up...something that I don't usually do when running through a monsterless map :P.  Dunno if I should toss in a forced weapon shot in the map now since it could be broken if a player doesn't wake it up (even without -nomonsters).  Anyways, the Motherdemon update takes precedent over this, but hopefully it will all fit in once that's done.

 

I guess the red health potions are just to say "hey this is a voodoo doll"?  Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't know that they are really needed at this point.

 

I wanted to have the crusher raise back up after it "crushed" the ground, but I couldn't get it to work because of VPOs.  I don't know why I never thought to just offset the crusher a bit so it blocks the view back to the courtyard...very good idea there.  Maybe I was trying to preserve Blastfrog's original layout or something.  But I'll definitely use this idea for an update.

 

By the way, I'll probably be recreating these ideas in a separate update.  Mostly because I've already updated MAP02 and it would be a pain to try and merge this with it.

 

*edit*

 

Guess it might be a good idea to post the MAP02 update along with a MAP27 update I did yesterday.

 

The Terraformer v8

Burnt Offerings v8

 

MAP02 incorporates the offset crusher along with Da Werecat's altered voodoo doll actions.  So the crushers should now raise back up after a moment.  There's also other changes and tweaks here (thanks again to Da Werecat for some of them).  I made the RK crusher section a little more difficult because before you could basically just run through them without too much trouble.  I think I also cut out a bit of shell ammo.

 

For MAP27, I ran into a really close VPO in the rocket launcher trap room.  I already knew it was really close under certain circumstances, but I decided to see if I could knock it down a bit more.  It also gave me the opportunity to tweak the trap a bit since I wasn't totally happy with the previous iteration.  This new one is a good bit more difficult now since you have to press a series of switches to get out of the trap (instead of instantly shooting a nearby switch, thus defusing all the tension).  I think it might be a little less confusing for new players too.  The visplanes aren't too much better than before though :P

Edited by Mechadon

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The idea was that if you can't hide the side effects of a hack, you may as well turn them into a feature. ZDoom pickup message explains it better, but in general the player is presented with a loose system - you pick up a weird bottle, it hurts you, things are happening. In the case of the BK switch I got lazy.

 

4 hours ago, Mechadon said:

I actually had to double-check that it was showing up properly because it didn't work for me at first.  Until I realized that I needed to fire a weapon to wake the thing up...something that I don't usually do when running through a monsterless map :P.

This is actually a serious issue, because if you don't have the arch-vile running around at the right time to open a door, no waking it up afterwards will fix the broken script. I guess the least you could do is to wake it up from the BK room instead of the start room.

 

I have an idea for a different voodoo setup to minimize the risk as much as possible, but it would involve yet another item being cannibalized.

 

4 hours ago, Mechadon said:

I wanted to have the crusher raise back up after it "crushed" the ground, but I couldn't get it to work because of VPOs.  I don't know why I never thought to just offset the crusher a bit so it blocks the view back to the courtyard...very good idea there.

Weird, I didn't think of visplanes at all. I was just messing around with timings and actions, trying to subtly improve the sequence. I moved the hammers to the side because of vanilla collision issues - the floors wouldn't move, or the door wouldn't close, that kind of stuff; and after I put more space between the moving parts it was just easier to do what I wanted.

 

Anyway, it's been educational. Some things I didn't understand: why do you use multiple unclosed sectors in voodoo rooms, and why do you damage the doll diagonally?

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13 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

This is actually a serious issue, because if you don't have the arch-vile running around at the right time to open a door, no waking it up afterwards will fix the broken script. I guess the least you could do is to wake it up from the BK room instead of the start room.

Yes it is, I'm not sure why I didn't think about it before.  Honestly I'm surprised the map hasn't run into more problems, it has been surprisingly stable and consistent.  I was expecting to hear all sorts of issues when I first uploaded it :P

 

I didn't add in a forced shot into the map yet because I need to try and figure out a graceful way of doing it.  I'll have to think about that a bit...

 

13 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

Weird, I didn't think of visplanes at all. I was just messing around with timings and actions, trying to subtly improve the sequence. I moved the hammers to the side because of vanilla collision issues - the floors wouldn't move, or the door wouldn't close, that kind of stuff; and after I put more space between the moving parts it was just easier to do what I wanted.

Ah interesting, I thought for sure it was a VPO issue.  When I had the crushers raise back up, it would jump the limit if you viewed back out into the courtyard from the lower hallway.  So the simplest solution I could think of at the time was to just leave the crushers in the lowered position.  But I did prefer them to raise back up...I just didn't offset the view.  Apart from fixing collision issues (which I also ran into with the old barrel crusher setup), I liked the cavern~ish decor that you added to the entrance of the underground hallway.  So these changes are a win-win I'd say.

 

13 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

Anyway, it's been educational. Some things I didn't understand: why do you use multiple unclosed sectors in voodoo rooms, and why do you damage the doll diagonally?

Those voodoo doll setup actually come from this demonstration map that I discovered a while ago.  I just copied it as a prefab, unclosed sectors and all.

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9 hours ago, Mechadon said:

I didn't add in a forced shot into the map yet because I need to try and figure out a graceful way of doing it.  I'll have to think about that a bit...

My idea involves an object that explodes constantly instead of a barrel.

 

Arch-vile should be awoken from the first room so it can run around for a bit - otherwise its position probably won't be very random. In the BK room, the BK switch would open a shootable button in a wall. Shooting it would wake up the arch-vile (if it went dormant again), and also release it to open one of the four doors separating voodoo dolls from the exploding objects. One of the objects will then damage one of the dolls; ideally, the latter should descend a step to avoid any further damage, unless the distance it traveled is enough. I can see how this can be set up either way.

 

It would require:

 

- One spare item slot.

- One spare state with a codepointer.

 

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j4VA6nA.png

 

The height of 256 seems to be too much in ZDoom. Everything is shifted downwards compared to the short skies in vanilla. I recall 240 working well.

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I like the lightning and the shading, awesome job there!  I'm not a fan of the old clouds at all though.  I would much prefer the new ones.

 

If its the same thing I think your talking about in regards the sky being shifted down in GZDoom, I'm pretty sure thats a bug.  256 should work fine in the other ports.  If it is the same thing, the sky will look correct in software rendering but not in hardware.  I noticed this recently when some older maps were having their skies pushed down into the horizon.  Maybe you mean something else though?

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7 hours ago, Mechadon said:

I'm not a fan of the old clouds at all though.  I would much prefer the new ones.

I already made adjustments for the old clouds when I got the new ones. When I tried to replace them I ran into problems immediately. I dunno.

 

7 hours ago, Mechadon said:

If its the same thing I think your talking about in regards the sky being shifted down in GZDoom, I'm pretty sure thats a bug.

No, I'm talking about ZDoom 2.8.1. Here's how it looks with SKY2:

yxBgerz.png

 

And here's how it looks with SKY2TALL:

lsD1Rai.png

 

It's not recent either, I remember running into this way back. I vaguely remember 240 being optimal.

 

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13 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

I already made adjustments for the old clouds when I got the new ones. When I tried to replace them I ran into problems immediately. I dunno.

I'll see if I can take a stab at merging the lightning with the new clouds I guess.  I really do not like those old clouds, that's why I spent time making entirely new ones.

 

13 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

No, I'm talking about ZDoom 2.8.1. Here's how it looks with SKY2:

Ok yea that's different from what I was talking about.  Should be no problem to crop the rest of the skies to to 240px.

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Just now, Mechadon said:

I'll see if I can take a stab at merging the lightning with the new clouds I guess.  I really do not like those old clouds, that's why I spent time making entirely new ones.

Why though? I can see some problems with them, but they're minor, and I'm not sure it's the same problems you see. I may still attempt to replace them later, but it's gonna be low priority for now. Here's my current (finalized, more or less) PSD just in case:

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-l4jsCIh4wP0D3dlIn-ZbKkVjzHy5Z-Q


Its organization leaves a lot to be desired, but it was easier to finish it like this than to redo it.

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I'm just not a fan of how blotchy and low detail it is.  The original sky that I made way back at the beginning of the project was hastily put together and I started to really dislike it.  Using it as a base for the newer sky just made me dislike it that much more, because it could have been done better.  The new clouds came out more like I originally wanted.

 

Thanks for the .psd, I'm currently trying not to butcher your awesome artwork while using the new clouds.  How were your going to handle the foreground aqueduct by the way?  Did you just want to use the older foreground colored one for the non-lightning frame?

 

*edit*

 

Actually I think I see how you intended it to go from your .psd.  Just the same aqueduct but without the blue highlights, is that right?

 

Here's what it looks like:

 

z54W1gA.pngDgBiQ6s.png

Edited by Mechadon

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9 hours ago, Mechadon said:

The original sky that I made way back at the beginning of the project was hastily put together and I started to really dislike it.

I know the feeling.

 

9 hours ago, Mechadon said:

Just the same aqueduct but without the blue highlights, is that right?

Well, yeah. I have a bunch of layers grouped as "BLU storm" that I turn off to make the default sky.

 

These turned out fine. The mountains are kinda rough. I see you've used the old version as a base. What I posted earlier was pretty much the first palette conversion - it turned out better than I thought it would, but worse than I'd like. I made a lot of small adjustments since then.

 

Maybe I'll have a go at this myself today.

 

The new clouds always gave me a strange feeling, like they didn't look ominous enough. I only asked for them because I wanted to use your lightning without the pains of trying to fit it to another background, but I ended up enduring said pains anyway. The old ones have a weird perspective, which makes them interesting to look at, but at the same time harder to work with. I'm still not sure I got the lighting right on them.

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Harder to work with, my ass.

 

B21leJe.png

 

The composition displeased me until I finished the cloud highlights. I still think it looks a little flat when not lit up. But it's more elaborate.

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To be honest, I don't like the idea of lighting bolts in the static picture. It looks too "supernatural". Light must be flickering, not freezing.

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Hey! I took my music and tweaked the ones that needed some adjustments so they sound better with OPL (mainly deleting notes and instruments). Some songs are still not perfect in OPL because I had to make sure they sounded OK with General MIDI as well. If there are any changes to the tracklist and more of my music is included, let me know so I can take a look at those tracks as well.

 

By the way, the name of the music for D_READ_M is called First Departure. It's just the first part of the song from which the other "Departure" MIDI I uploaded a while ago comes from.

CoTeCiO Simplified MIDIs.zip

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