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Mechadon

Doom 64 for Doom II - v1.4 released, /idgames link is up

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3 hours ago, wildweasel said:

Well, given 64doom's maintainer never wrote compiling instructions (only instructions to build the ROM), this is gonna be an adventure...and it starts with installing the N64 toolchain. Here we go... 😖

Update for those that care: I got the toolchain installed, along with what I assume are all its dependencies, but upon trying to Make in the 64doom/src folder, I'm running into problems where it's failing to #include libdragon.h and I don't understand how to tell it where to look for it. I even copied the libdragon files into (a copy of) the /src folder, no effect.

 

I'll take a break from this for the time being - if I pick it up again, I'll probably go start a thread in Source Ports to avoid cluttering this one too much. (unless someone else feels like trying).

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I was wondering, does anybody here know if it's possible to turn this into an episode? I've tried it myself but it breaks all scripts, apperently

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I find a exploit in map 12 the bleeding with 2 barons of hell.
They are behind a iron fence and this iron fence block their projectiles but me I can shoot them with hitscan weapons like the super shotgun.
I take 2 screenshot of their location.

Screenshot_Doom_20180716_144102.png

Screenshot_Doom_20180716_144729.png

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On 7/15/2018 at 7:37 AM, Zemini said:

I just ripped the motherdemon out of the wad for my own megawad.  Thanks!


Did you play at least one map or just jumped in straight to Slade? xD

Personally I don't care, I was always meaning for motherdemon sprites to be available to everyone for whatever as long as it was after the project is officialy released - which it is now. But that post really sounds like you've ignored everything else and just went for the monster, which is kinda sad seeing that the core of the D64D2 experience lies in the hard work put into the maps and the new monster is just some extra sprinkles on top. I'm sure that if we had any numbers on work hours put into the project, the mapping would totally dwarf the time it took to make all of the custom graphics for this megawad. And going by your post, you just reduced it to a sprite donor.

Have fun with your new monster.

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And if you ain't played through this thing WHAT ARE YOU EVEN DOING, DRAG THAT SHIT ONTO YOUR G/ZDOOM EXECUTABLE NOW.

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5 hours ago, FrenchGuy said:

I find a exploit in map 12 the bleeding with 2 barons of hell.
They are behind a iron fence and this iron fence block their projectiles but me I can shoot them with hitscan weapons like the super shotgun.
I take 2 screenshot of their location.

Screenshot_Doom_20180716_144102.png

Screenshot_Doom_20180716_144729.png

Hmm, it may be best to just get rid of the invisible blocking wall there altogether.  I forget if it works the same way in the original map though.

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1 hour ago, Mechadon said:

Hmm, it may be best to just get rid of the invisible blocking wall there altogether.  I forget if it works the same way in the original map though.

I try the same thing in doom 64 EX the most accurate port of doom 64 as far as I know.

It appears this barrier work in the same way that this doom 64 for doom II.
Enemy which can't hit back in doom it is very strange to me but apparently it is normal in this map.

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Yup, just had a chance to try it out myself.  So we'll leave that as-is then.  It's not too bad anyways because the main trap there is having to deal with the Barons either before you jump down or in the pit with them at the same time.

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In map 18 dark entries if I kill not any monsters in the first room and go directly search the blue key in the second room, when I activate all the necessary switchs for the blue key, I don't meet the teleported monsters and I can pick the blue key without fight the archvile and his friends.
I don't know if it's intended but it look strange. I play with GZDoom 3.4.1 x64

Screenshot_Doom_20180717_153808.png

Edited by FrenchGuy

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14 minutes ago, FrenchGuy said:

In map 18 dark entries if I kill not any monsters in the first room and go directly search the blue key in the second room, when I activate all the necessary switchs for the blue key, I don't meet the teleported monsters and I can pick the blue key without fight the archvile and his friends.
I don't know if it's intended but it look strange. I play with GZDoom 3.4.1 x64

Screenshot_Doom_20180717_153808.png

That's a byproduct of teleport closets and sound propagation. Forcing the player to shoot would prevent cheesing the blue key room, maybe a mancubus blocking the way or a shootable switch.

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1 hour ago, Megalyth said:

That's a byproduct of teleport closets and sound propagation. Forcing the player to shoot would prevent cheesing the blue key room, maybe a mancubus blocking the way or a shootable switch.

I'm looking at the map now and I have an idea, but it kinda changes how the trap works.  I can change the three switches that the player presses to use action 24 (G1 Floor Raise to Lowest Ceiling) so it forces a gunshot.  I would have to change the switches a bit so they are pushed back and then put up a blocking fence so it says "shoot me".  The only drawback is that it means the player can shoot the switches from the other side of the room, which gets rid of forcing them to criss-cross through monsters to press them.

 

Let me know how you'd like me to handle it @Megalyth

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Query: was the teleporter to the switch to the yellow key in MAP09 a serious problem for you? I'm being told that it's confusing, and my opinion is that players should re-learn how to let go of W.

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This is the area in question:

 

69YvHMcm.png

 

You teleport onto the ledge like this:

 

wjZyY4Bm.png

 

I had brought up that it might be a good idea to alter the teleport destination in a way that its less confusing to new players.  Either by adding a visual cue (a teleport flat visible from below) or by turning the teleporter destination around.  The original map is like this, but I've always thought it was needlessly confusing in an already confusing map.

 

If its not a huge deal, we'll just leave it as-is.

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MAP06: I'd say remove the hurt floor in the area with the red key. It seems unnecessarily punishing of the player for not being an instant expert at an already obtuse puzzle.

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I remember complaining about it too. But I think, in the end, it's actually too cruel and unusual to remove.

 

It's a landmark, after all.

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14 minutes ago, SteelPH said:

MAP06: I'd say remove the hurt floor in the area with the red key. It seems unnecessarily punishing of the player for not being an instant expert at an already obtuse puzzle.

Maybe @dt_ can chime in here?  There have been quite a few people express their dislike for the damaging floors in that area.  I'd be for removing it since that whole puzzle was meant to be fairly difficult to figure out from the get-go in the original map, but that makes less sense here.  Either that or toss in more readily available radsuits.  It's been an ongoing issue because it was originally for a demon artifact, but in this its part of the normal progression of the wad.  I've already tweaked some things about it in the past to make it less cryptic.

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When I took on this map, I remembered how horrible the original puzzle was, with the rest of the level being relatively unremarkable.  It's really hard with a d pad like the N64, so to keep that harshness in, I felt like I had to add another extra hazard in there to compensate slightly for the average modern doomer's improved skill.  It's only a -5 damage floor, and the map's not too hard, if you run fast and know which Tele you need it's possible to not take any damage at all.  I'd say maybe one extra rad suit, on hntr

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When MTX1996 got to that part in Map06 in his twitch stream, he said that the switch to get the red key was a bad design because he thought it actually required the red key to use.

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16 minutes ago, dt_ said:

When I took on this map, I remembered how horrible the original puzzle was, with the rest of the level being relatively unremarkable.  It's really hard with a d pad like the N64, so to keep that harshness in, I felt like I had to add another extra hazard in there to compensate slightly for the average modern doomer's improved skill.

The puzzle is also stupidly obtuse. Having a mouse and keyboard does not justify forcing a player trying to figure it out to take damage every time they screw up. The original puzzle couldn't kill you.

16 minutes ago, dt_ said:

It's only a -5 damage floor, and the map's not too hard, if you run fast and know which Tele you need it's possible to not take any damage at all.  I'd say maybe one extra rad suit, on hntr

That's treating the symptom and not the disease, so to speak.

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I hear what you guys are saying, but do you honestly remember the original outpost omega for being nice?  There was also a map later on (in the original) that was an absolute slog, and in the last room, if you were not stood in exactly the correct place the floor dropped and turned into an inescapable death pit, would you disagree with that also?

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I'm messing with the map now and this is what I've done so far:

 

- Added an extra rad suit in the north-eastern section of that area (Easy/Medium difficulty only).

- Fixed the switch that lowers the red key (I think its meant to reveal the red key marker instead of display it from the get-go, so this was probably a bug?).

- Added a hint next to the switch that opens up the bars to hopefully reduce confusion some more.

 

I'll leave the inclusion of the acid up to @dt_.  And dt_, if you have any issues with those changes, let me know.  It's hard to gauge this stuff with other players, but I will say that the puzzle is already way less complex than the D64 version.  I feel like if the puzzle is less annoying to do, the acid won't be as much of a headache.  Again, part of the problem is that in the original it made more sense for the map to be difficult and cryptic.  Here it is being treated as a normal map.  So we have to try and strike a balance.

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Ok, for a compromise, how about making the area (128x128) opposite the teleporters non damaging, which will give the player time to stand and work out which one they need to take.  Don't forget that there's basically a free soulsphere down there aswell

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4 minutes ago, dt_ said:

Ok, for a compromise, how about making the area (128x128) opposite the teleporters non damaging, which will give the player time to stand and work out which one they need to take.  Don't forget that there's basically a free soulsphere down there aswell

That's a great idea actually.  Giving an area where the player can get a bit of respite to hear the audio cue from the bars opening without getting melted by the acid over and over is a good compromise I think.  Consider it done.

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You do realise that the only thing that damaging floor is encouraging is flagrant abuse of the 'reload saved game' function, right?

I say this as a person who loved every bit of D64D2. Okay, except the part we're discussing right now. ;)

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15 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

I say this as a person who loved every bit of D64D2. Okay, except the part we're discussing right now. ;)

 

I will take this as 1 voice in favor of keeping MAP09 as it is. This will slightly offset the wave of annoyance that I'm expecting from other people.

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8 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

 

I will take this as 1 voice in favor of keeping MAP09 as it is. This will slightly offset the wave of annoyance that I'm expecting from other people.

I took great pleasure to explore map 09, this level is not too easy or difficult and have great atmosphere and music.
Currently I stuck in map 18(this map in ultra-violence is really hard with no save and pistol start) so I can't talk about the following maps but map 09 is the level that has marked me the most.

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Nightmare Imps don't seem to make a sound for melee in ports outside the ZDoom family. Is this a limitation of DeHackEd?

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