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Memfis

YouTube speedrunners

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There is a bunch of players that upload speedrunning videos to YouTube, but don't (always) share the *.lmp files on Doomworld or DSDA.

Obviously, there are many problems with this. The videos might become unavailable at any moment. Watching them is uncomfrotable compared to watching actual demos, since you can't use walkcam or change the display settings for example. This phenomenon also creates a divide in the community: we don't have everyone gathered in the same central space anymore, it becomes difficult to find out what's the best time on a map is, and so on.

An unpleasant situation, right? But perhaps there's still time to change something. Should we maybe reach out to some of these people and try to "enlighten" them? What do you think?

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That doesn't sound like a bad idea at all!

I'm actually one of the few who prefer a YT video over a demo because I tend to watch speedruns from my phone, but that doesn't mean that the demo shouldn't be made available. It could be argues that without the .lmp, how can the run be verified as non-tas?.

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i tried to get some Chinese runner who broke the Tombstone UV-max record to upload to DSDA but it was reported in the DSDA thread that he cant email the file for some reason...

TheV1perKiller is the main one that comes to mind; he does a lot of UV-max runs, however they are using GZDoom

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is there a reason NOT to record a demo if it is done on a proper speedrun port? Imo there is none and I wonder why somebody would do that.

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Memfis said:

The videos might become unavailable at any moment.

I mean... unless the person intentionally deletes it, I think the chances of Doomworld / DSDA suddenly dying / losing data are a lot higher than the chance of Youtube doing so.

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Well, how many people download videos from YouTube and how many people store lmp files in their personal archives?

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Whenever I find someone running doom/related on the "wrong" port or without recording, I tell them about the community here but it usually amounts to nothing. A lot of people don't seem to really care enough to change their ways, or otherwise aren't interested in the competition aspect of it.

w.r.t. availability, dsda is fully-backed up by multiple people afaik, not to mention personal copies of many demos, and lmps aren't going to be hit by a copyright strike or anything, so I'd agree that they are a more stable medium.

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kraflab said:

dsda is fully-backed up by multiple people afaik


Sorry for the little off-topic, but this made me wonder, is there a way to download all of the demos there? Like a torrent or something, or like the version(s) of idgames in archive.org? I'm interested in making my own backup of them as well.

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Well, you *could* of course mirror the whole website, for instance with wget or curl. But it's not considered to be Very Nice[TM] due to the high load it imposes on the server. Thus, if it gets abused the server maintainer can and probably will establish measures to prevent mass downloading / mirroring of the site.

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rehelekretep said:

i tried to get some Chinese runner who broke the Tombstone UV-max record to upload to DSDA but it was reported in the DSDA thread that he cant email the file for some reason...

TheV1perKiller is the main one that comes to mind; he does a lot of UV-max runs, however they are using GZDoom


What's the issue with GZDoom? Honest question, because I know next to nothing about ports/engines/etc.

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GZDoom's physics are modified from vanilla, it can't run vanilla demos, and GZDoom demos go out of sync with every new version.

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Arctangent said:

GZDoom's physics are modified from vanilla, it can't run vanilla demos, and GZDoom demos go out of sync with every new version.


Ah, ok...I can see how that would be an issue then. Thanks for the reply.

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Chewyninja69 said:

Ah, ok...I can see how that would be an issue then. Thanks for the reply.


Just to further clarify things, the collision physics (with walls and monsters) is different and damage calculation (random generation in general) is drastically different, which has pretty big implications for something like uv-max.

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kraflab said:

Whenever I find someone running doom/related on the "wrong" port or without recording, I tell them about the community here but it usually amounts to nothing. A lot of people don't seem to really care enough to change their ways, or otherwise aren't interested in the competition aspect of it.

Part of this is the fracturing of the 'official' records (Compet-n) vs. DSDA records, as well as the fact that there are people such as myself who are competent speed runners who don't necessarily bother to learn some of the untricacies of doom programming, as well as how to record for the sake of posting to YouTube.

For me, I still don't know how to record an .lmp. Compounding matters is that getting a copy of vanilla doom that is recognized as 'official' for compet-n/record purposes can be difficult. Should someone point me (as well as many others) in the right direction (how exactly do you record an .lmp?) many of the records would fall.

As an addendum, many people also play as hobbyists and don't consider themselves part of the community, perhaps because many of us are a little older and have full time jobs, as well as families in some cases, and would prefer to see ourselves more from these perspectives.

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I agree with you Memfis. I have a YouTube channel but also contribute here. Once in a while, I tell an interested commentator and/or aspiring speed runner that they should post here and try to help where I can. I always post in the description where the original demo can be found and what software is needed. PS If I remember correctly you posted on one of my first vids around 5 years ago and encouraged me to post to DSDA as well. :)

I also post videos for which I don't post the .lmp here. Recently I started doing multi-segmented runs (no proper TAS) that I try to do well but without being competitive, because there is no such category. Just made such a run for one of the Coffee Break maps that I haven't converted to video yet. Apart from maybe functioning as a demo to give someone ideas for tackling the map, I see no reason to post it here otherwise. (But let me know if you disagree.)

Hence I agree with guys like RobinSena that not every demoer necessarily does it for the competitive aspect, even if the demos are good. I don't think it's bad that this split exists, it just means that there are different communities that cater to different needs. However I agree that it's good to let more people on YT know about the existence of the DSDA and encourage them to contribute.

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rehelekretep said:

imo compet-n is an irrelevance in 2017 doom speedrunning


Well, ya, compet-n has been dead for a while and irrelevant for longer. There's no "fracturing" of records between compet-n and dsda.

RobinSena said:

Compounding matters is that getting a copy of vanilla doom that is recognized as 'official' for compet-n/record purposes can be difficult.

Assuming you already have doom since you play doom, all you have to do is play on a vanilla-compatible port, e.g., eternity, prboom+, cndoom, chocolate doom, etc. It's not any different than using another port, it's just that the mechanics are preserved. So, it's no more difficult than using zdoom or anything of that nature.

BTW, if anyone has questions or wants help with anything like this, the discord channel is a great place, linked here, and that thread has a lot of other information as well.

Kotzugi said:

I also post videos for which I don't post the .lmp here. Recently I started doing multi-segmented runs (no proper TAS) that I try to do well but without being competitive, because there is no such category. Just made such a run for one of the Coffee Break maps that I haven't converted to video yet. Apart from maybe functioning as a demo to give someone ideas for tackling the map, I see no reason to post it here otherwise. (But let me know if you disagree.)

I think these are worth posting, so people can see your ideas. That's especially true for runs that seem too hard to complete without segments, since someone else in the future might see what you did and come up with some changes that make it work. I sometimes post tases for tricks I find that are either too hard for me to pull off, or that I feel aren't worth my time to do, but someone might want to do it later on, so it's nice to have a record. For what it's worth, the new dsda has a "scale" of tasing effort that makes it clear when something is just segmented versus being a tas in the sense of high optimization.

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kraflab said:

I think these are worth posting, so people can see your ideas. That's especially true for runs that seem too hard to complete without segments, since someone else in the future might see what you did and come up with some changes that make it work. I sometimes post tases for tricks I find that are either too hard for me to pull off, or that I feel aren't worth my time to do, but someone might want to do it later on, so it's nice to have a record. For what it's worth, the new dsda has a "scale" of tasing effort that makes it clear when something is just segmented versus being a tas in the sense of high optimization.

OK cool, I suppose I'll post it then because that map hasn't been done yet. Obviously I'll be clear that it was a TAS and what kind. Cheers

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Id love to get some tips about making watchable Youtube videos - but I can´t upload this huge amounts of data most recording tools produce (due to very limited internet connection) and still get a decent "watchable" vid.  .... 100 MB /hour be ok at max

But I rather "waste" all the funtime speedrunning, and then theres usually no motivation left to work on connecting vids, or any ideas on effects like in-framing to another vid as quick comparison, actually even not sure how to get a simple voice over WITHOUT Adding huge amounts to the filesize.

 

Latest bit of experience here: Some people on this Forum advocated "Fraps", so for the bazillionth time i thought I give it a try:

- 2MB download, lovely!

- quick installation, absolutely no options at all , perfect! (ok i started wondering a bit here^ but felt still fine)

- then first attempt - F9 - F9 ...whats gonna happen? Did it record anything? ...yes it did :)

... it recorded 6s of an 200MB 2h(!) Vid I was watching - 6 seconds = 50MB !! - BAMM, end of "Fraps-story" for me...extending 200MB to 60 GB wtf?!

 

Best I found (and use) yet was Bandicam, which already is on my upper Upload limits, and probably on the lower end concerning resolutions people could accept to watch (which I don´t care too much as long as Id watch em) - but only 10min videos due to registration stuff ... *sigh* - and If I use anything else than Bandicut to connect 2 or more of these 10min vids they kinda always seem to explode MB wise + resolution getting incredible worse...its unbelievable - soon I gonna try this with a text editor :)

And on my recent work with Saboteur Speedrunning it decreased my Framerate even more when running in backround....but still acceptable for me, other Recording tools failed here too I remember. Needing too much CPU to leave any speedrunning fun for the main game.. (erm no - i dont plan to record Doom vids^ - and If at all Id upload .lmps - that worked kinda perfect;))

 

So If you have any starterTips, or just your own story - for a poor equipped and real (lazy) Tech Noob, to quickly get acceptable solutions and maybe gaining some fun in this Video Preworks, Id be grateful.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, PanterD2S said:

100 MB /hour be ok at max

This would be a piddly 230kb/s video quality for 1 hour, and that's not including audio. Considering Dooms high rate of pixel motion, that is way too low. You probably want to at least double that.

 

32 minutes ago, PanterD2S said:

... it recorded 6s of an 200MB 2h(!) Vid I was watching - 6 seconds = 50MB !! - BAMM, end of "Fraps-story" for me...extending 200MB to 60 GB wtf?!

You are using FRAPS wrong. FRAPS is a lossless video recorder, you need and are expected to run the content through a video editor first. It's designed so that video editing doesn't double encode the source content (when video editing, you should avoid double lossy encoding wherever possible). Most video hosting sites wont even accept the FRAPS codec anyway.

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Prboom-plus is probably the fastest way to get youtube-ready uploads these days:

  • Download the latest version from here.
  • Run it once and set up all the video options for how you want the actual video to look - for instance I upload in 1280x720 so I set the screen resolution to that.
  • In the prboom-plus directory there's a text file, usage.txt. Open that and go to the VIDEO CAPTURE section. This gives examples of three utilities you need to encode the screen output to video. Download them and copy the files into the prboom-plus directory (you probably only need the .exe). You can also tinker with the options in prboom-plus.cfg (usage.txt lists how to do this) but the defaults are fine for encoding youtube video.
  • Run prboom-plus from the command line with the -timedemo and -viddump commands. Eg prboom-plus -timedemo lv01-001 -viddump lv01-001.mkv
  • prboom-plus will run through the demo at a slower than usual speed, which is because it's encoding the output in real time as well as capturing it. Don't worry, the final file will play at the correct speed.

And that's it. Once the setup is done you only need the fourth step, so doing more videos becomes very straightforward. Fraps is much more work. When I was still using it the largest video I ever recorded ended up using 44 GB, which needed another encoding step before it became a more manageable 3 GB.

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Quote

This would be a piddly 230kb/s video quality for 1 hour, and that's not including audio. Considering Dooms high rate of pixel motion, that is way too low. You probably want to at least double that.

thats a point we could argue/discuss long and it would not lead /help me anyway I guess.  "Get a better computer and a normal internet connection as everbody else!"  ;)

Yeah,... (500MB/Day or drop back to Edge...anyone knows Edge?^^)

 

 

However some "arguments":

 

- I had recordings of like 800 MB for 10mins, and I could not see anything cause of compression issues. 

Quality, Format, size frames, tons of stuff matter and someteims can be adjusted.-> but imho one cant generally say "100MB/hour is not enough."  Maybe simply get  a better compression method then?! - Zip it before upload?   ok for me but not for Youtube I guess..

(My actual Bandicam settings FYI: mp4 "half size" 15 FPS  MPeg-4  Quality 20 or 10,  Audio at 128 kbps mono 48khz...and this is taking 110MB for 33min25s at 800x600 - which I find a bit too much, probably more for less is possible somehow...but how? - beside youtube upload time aprx 2h, but that doesnt really matter)

 

- especially considering Doom and me ...^ - I instantly download all youtube stuff instead of watching online to lower my traffic when watching another time. (or being able to rewatch stuff at all)

So zeromasters 25mins is at 15 MB (!), and "I" can still enjoy... ;)

(144kb that is i think acc to youtube - true bit edgy when its getting tough to decode the health % - but content over better graphix, even a blind could feel and hear the quality I guess)

 

 

Quote

You are using FRAPS wrong.

 

Im sure youre right!

...but I have a really tough time figuring all this sht out by myself ..

 

-I already learned the hard way "double encoding is evil", especially when the video is getting 20x larger and 5x worselooking each new encoding and this even gets started when I just try to connect 2 of the same compressed files. :fp:

 

-Actually It sounds like Fraps could help me some day to decrease the final upload file - but right now the problems starting way earlier when creating "content" and video edit it before..

 

 

Ok, lets assume I have a perfect "content" recorded and spent tons of hours on editing my upload file - BUT the file is 5.5GB, either from recording or editing - THEN Fraps can help me get it back down to 100MB without loss of too much quality?...  

That be great and exactly what I needed If it worked (so I could set Bandicam back to Max) - but I believe I still missunderstood alot and it all doesnt help with recording and editing issues I have in the first place.

 

 I thought all these Programs/Tools want to deliver "all in one solutions". Recording, Editing, and vast choice of settings about size and resolutions best with instant upload click. Bandicam got closest to "my" picture - but should I reather use 3 different Tools maybe? 

 

1. Record File

2. Edit File

3. Clean Problems of 1 and 2 and get it back handy in size and quality (Fraps?)

 


 

Spoiler


 

 

 

...and after 1h trying to understand Edward I just noticed Ryback´s new post :)

ok lets see - PRBoom - isnt that some Doom AddOn  (from Peo S.?^^) to do various Doom stuff like multiplayer ports and strange weapons on even stranger wads?? really never used that - But the Topic is "youtube speedrunners" and I explicitely dont want to play Doom ^   sure this helps me with any other game ?...mkey..then I give it a try for sure....but Im not convinced yet reading through the change log...you all wanna see how bad skills can fall apart after 20years of trying to delete insanity from brain :)  

 

"encode the screen output to video."  sounds like any game screen is ok, not necessarily showing doom - gonna risc to run into it I guess...after some sleep.. :)   thx so far - keeping you updated

 

 

Edited by PanterD2S

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5 hours ago, Ryback said:

Prboom-plus is probably the fastest way to get youtube-ready uploads these days:

  • Download the latest version from here.
  • Run it once and set up all the video options for how you want the actual video to look - for instance I upload in 1280x720 so I set the screen resolution to that.
  • In the prboom-plus directory there's a text file, usage.txt. Open that and go to the VIDEO CAPTURE section. This gives examples of three utilities you need to encode the screen output to video. Download them and copy the files into the prboom-plus directory (you probably only need the .exe). You can also tinker with the options in prboom-plus.cfg (usage.txt lists how to do this) but the defaults are fine for encoding youtube video.
  • Run prboom-plus from the command line with the -timedemo and -viddump commands. Eg prboom-plus -timedemo lv01-001 -viddump lv01-001.mkv
  • prboom-plus will run through the demo at a slower than usual speed, which is because it's encoding the output in real time as well as capturing it. Don't worry, the final file will play at the correct speed.

And that's it. Once the setup is done you only need the fourth step, so doing more videos becomes very straightforward. Fraps is much more work. When I was still using it the largest video I ever recorded ended up using 44 GB, which needed another encoding step before it became a more manageable 3 GB.

ive tried setting this function up twice now and just get nothing except errors in the output text files.

if you have a free moment id appreciate help if you know what my mistake is:

outputtextfiles.zip

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Fraps?  Bandicam?  Is it the early 2000s again?  :P  Definitely recommend prboom+ built in feature, it's easy and smooth once you set it up properly.  Zeromaster figured out a really good process, so probably worth asking him directly if you want specifics.  Also, I'm sure someone wouldn't mind processing / uploading for you if you'd like to go that route.

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btw if you have a relatively new NVIDIA graphics card, you can now use their 'Share' feature to record video. the default shortcut is Alt+F9.

it gives very good quality but seems directly tied to your desktop resolution (even if playing in a window) which is a shame for people with unconventional aspect ratios/resolutions.

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The pr+ process has one downside: if you have a toaster CPU, it'll take ages to capture longer videos. It has to play the video back in its entirety and it's not going to be at full speed. I've got an i7 and this 2h 45m run took thirteen hours to grab at 1080p/60fps. Reducing the quality would speed up the process immensely, of course. But it looks soooooo smooth and crispy!

 

When I'm impatient or want to cut out a very specific part of a video, I just record to file with OBS. Definitely preferable to fraps, at least in 2017 AD.

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Never mind Panter, I missed the "not recording Doom" part of your post. In that case prboom-plus isn't going to be of any use to you. In that case I'd stick with Fraps, and download a simple video encoder program like Handbrake. Let Fraps do its thing, chew up tens of gigs of HD space, and when you're done load the files into Handbrake. All you really need to do is set the quality (20 is good for HD video, 23 is fine if you want to save space), then let it run. Depending on quality settings it'll reduce file size by 20-30 times.

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5 hours ago, rehelekretep said:

ive tried setting this function up twice now and just get nothing except errors in the output text files.

if you have a free moment id appreciate help if you know what my mistake is:

outputtextfiles.zip

It would help if you also posted your config file (glboom-plus.cfg or prboom-plus.cfg). And maybe also the standard output file (stdout.txt?) From the logs the issue is with x264, it's expecting a file to encode but hasn't been given one. This is the default setting for video encoding in the cfg:

 

cap_videocommand          "x264 -o output.mp4 --crf 22 --muxer mp4 --demuxer raw --input-csp rgb --input-depth 8 --input-res %wx%h --fps 35 -"

I suspect what might have happened is that you've lost the hyphen at the end. This option tells x264 that instead of encoding an existing video file, it should take its input from a stream (which is what prboom-plus is sending to it). So if that's missing x264 expects a filename somewhere on the command line and can't see one.

 

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