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Chewyninja69

Doom 2 The Spirit World, red key door..

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Can the Arch Vile open this door, like in Monster Condo? I've been speedrunning Doom 2 on the Playstation 3 and was just curious. And if so, wouldn't it be faster to just rush to where he is instead of hunting down the key? Not that it takes long to go through this level on a speedrun, but was just wondering.

Edit: after experimenting, it seems like it takes too much time to try and manipulate the Archie's behavior to even attempt to have him try to open the door. Dumb question to ask, I suppose.

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I think monsters can only open doors that have an "allow monsters" tag and I don't think that tag applies to keyed doors, although if a door can be opened without a key from the other side and that tag is present they should be able to open it.

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GoatLord said:

I think monsters can only open doors that have an "allow monsters" tag and I don't think that tag applies to keyed doors, although if a door can be opened without a key from the other side and that tag is present they should be able to open it.


I'm slightly confused. In Monster Condo, the Arch Vile at the end of the level can open the red key door, it's a keyed door. Maybe I'm too slow to comprehend what you're trying to say? I dunno. I blame it on working 3rd shift and being awake during the daytime.

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Graf Zahl said:

It cannot open the keyed door. Due to some bad checks it can open the unkeyed backside of the door.

So basically, it can open the red key door in Monster Condo but not the red key door in The Spirit World?

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The door in Monster Condo has a "DR Door Open Wait Close (also monsters)" action on its back side, which is the action that the Archvile actually activates and opens the door that way. The door in The Spirit World doesn't have any action on its back side, the only way to open it is by the keyed action, which monsters can't do.

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Yes, the reason being the the archvile moves so fast that he technically collides with the opposite side of the door. In monster condo, the back side of the door is not keyed, only the front. Most keyed doors are keyed on both sides, the monster condo door is a rare exception (likely a design oversight)

Edit: Ninja'd

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Doomkid said:

likely a design oversight

It could be justified by not wanting coop players without the key to get stuck behind the door that another player with the key opened for them. I mean stuck as unable to backtrack, not as unable to reach the exit. In case of Monster Condo, maybe there was originally supposed to be more behind the door than just the exit.

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scifista42 said:

More info here.


Thanks for the link. Makes alot more sense.

Edit: reading the above link, it says that in Doom E2M6, a monster can open the yellow key door? I honestly don't recall ever seeing that/coming across that. Is that a typo or can that really happen?

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Chewyninja69 said:

Edit: reading the above link, it says that in Doom E2M6, a monster can open the yellow key door? I honestly don't recall ever seeing that/coming across that. Is that a typo or can that really happen?


It says only that there's a one-sided yellow key door in E2M6, which is correct. That's how the room is designed: you go in and can't leave until you find the yellow key within. Just because there's a one-sided keyed door doesn't mean there's a monster capable of opening it, however.

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Looking into the map in a map editor, the door is the same case as the one in Monster Condo, monsters can open it from the non-locked side, and it's thin enough that sufficiently fast monsters could trigger the non-locked action from the opposite side of the door, too. The door might be hard to reach by monsters, though, due to being placed in a narrow alcove, and monster walking AI doesn't like to change direction too often, making it hard to fit into the alcove.

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