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Edward850

Turok 2: Seeds of Evil (Now on XboxOne)

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Medal of Honour for the PS1 had multiplayer. It wasn't very good, but it was there.

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That was a 1999 fps. Goldeneye for 1997 was amazing, but if you were not around that time when the game was new. It may look dated and crappy.

In 8 days we will see if this port, give us a good Turok 2 for PC.

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Jello said:

; the ability to grab my N64 and four controllers, throw them in a backpack, and take the to a friends house and spend hours shooting each other in a game was unprecedented.


I guess I wasn't the only one who did this. Almost all my friends played Goldeneye and it was a big thing back then.

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Ajora said:

Medal of Honour for the PS1 had multiplayer. It wasn't very good, but it was there.


I completely forgot about it, probably because it wasn't very good. Now that you've mentioned it, I do remember playing it a few times, but we just went back to GoldenEye.

Duke Nukem 64 had pretty decent multiplayer as well. I remember playing Duckhunt on the pirate ship map quite a few times. One player would get a few minutes to grab a jetpack and whatever weapons and ammo they wanted, usually the devestator, then hide behind the pirate ship. The other players could only use shotguns. The duck would then fly up from behind the pirate ship and the other players would try to bring them down. I was actually surprised how often the duck would win. Unless of course people cheated and got the explosive shells.

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Jello said:

Could you name another console FPS with multiplayer from 1997 that was better?


That's a very specific combination and all it tells me is that y'all people who fellate Goldeneye's multi just didn't have anything better to play that year. 1998 was a far better year for FPS games, console and PC.

When I first played Goldeneye my immediate reaction was "why the hell can't I jump?" You could jump in Quake and Duke Nukem. But not in Goldeneye 64. It also looked like absolute dogshit, though a lot of that is down to the N64's texture filtering. The only thing halfway original it introduced was an objectives checklist and it was the first game I played with a sniper rifle.

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dethtoll said:

That's a very specific combination and all it tells me is that y'all people who fellate Goldeneye's multi just didn't have anything better to play that year. 1998 was a far better year for FPS games, console and PC.

When I first played Goldeneye my immediate reaction was "why the hell can't I jump?" You could jump in Quake and Duke Nukem. But not in Goldeneye 64. It also looked like absolute dogshit, though a lot of that is down to the N64's texture filtering. The only thing halfway original it introduced was an objectives checklist and it was the first game I played with a sniper rifle.


Maybe you're getting the PS1's texture filtering mixed up with the N64's. Textures on the N64 generally looked fine but muddy, on the PS1 they were jumping all over the place. Go back and play Medal of Honor on PS1, it looks like ass. GoldenEye still looks ok today, not great, but not terrible.

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dethtoll said:

y'all people who fellate Goldeneye's multi


Lol. You can smell the butthurt from miles away.

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Back in the day, Goldeneye was the bee's knees. It's the game that made me buy an N64. For the time, it even managed to surpass Doom as being my favourite first person shooter. But unlike Doom, time has not treated Goldeneye well. Its mechanics, artificial intelligence, controls, and graphics have aged like a 20 year old packet of creamy ranch sauce from McDonald's.

And yeah, the single player was always better than the multiplayer component.

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Jello said:

Go back and play Medal of Honor on PS1, it looks like ass. GoldenEye still looks ok today, not great, but not terrible.


They look equally bad.
Disclaimer: I don't like either game.
If I was forced to play either of them I'd instantly pick MoH just because the controls are still bearable today.

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You need to choose the "Solitaire" control layout for Goldeneye (if I remember it right)

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I personally find both the Playstation and N64 controller layouts uncomfortable in their own ways at least as far as fps games are concerned, I like neither of them.

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Jon said:

Lol. You can smell the butthurt from miles away.


I can smell the 12th birthday cake from miles away. What am I being butthurt about, exactly?

Jello said:

Maybe you're getting the PS1's texture filtering mixed up with the N64's. Textures on the N64 generally looked fine but muddy, on the PS1 they were jumping all over the place. Go back and play Medal of Honor on PS1, it looks like ass. GoldenEye still looks ok today, not great, but not terrible.


You don't even know what texture filtering IS, and this post proves it.

"fine but muddy" is an oxymoron, are you sure you meant to say this?

As far as PS1's textures being jumpy and jittery, that has zero to do with texture filtering (which the PS1 didn't do.) It's a more complex issue to do with the system's lack of perspective correction and lack of z-buffer. Yeah, it looked shit, but at least the textures were crisp. I hate texture filtering.

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Medal of Honor did look much better than Goldeneye. Now don't compare them using an 4K UHD Screen, you must compare them on their intended hardware..
Goldeneye was amazing for 1997, because it was a never seen on console before. It gave Console players a fun Multiplayer, something if they had never played with a PC was mind blowing. A year ago they were playing Donkey Kong Country 3 alone or with limited multiplayer, next year they rocking 4 player Deathmatch.
If we left that aside, it was an average shooter with some basic levels.

About 1998 that's the year of our Lord Half-Life....

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Wild Dog said:

About 1998 that's the year of our Lord Half-Life....


Also the year of the underrated Unreal, which still manages to look very decent today.

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I'd argue that MoH only started to become good when Allied Assault turned up. Graphics aside I personally just don't see the original MoH as being better than Goldeneye.

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The original Medal of Honor (and Underground) will always have a place in my heart from back in the day, but I think people are forgetting what PlayStation graphics where actually like. Sure Goldeneye was a bit blurry, but you could auctally see into the distance and the textures didn't warp and wobble constantly. I didn't regret getting the PSX first, but even when MoH was the hot new thing, I always thought of it as a consolation prize for Goldeneye.

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Back to Turok 2, I thought it was amazing at the time. I didn't have a PC, so I didn't get to play those games at the time. When I was younger, I didn't really notice the low framerate (but now I'm spoiled).

The only issue I had was aiming with the N64's shitty joystick. Other than that, it had neat things going for it. Some of the weapons are great. the Mag60 could blow off heads. The shredder with explosive shells was simply death. Even arrows sticking into walls was really cool at the time. And who could forget wrecking shit while riding a triceratops?

Not sure if I'll buy this when it comes out though, I'm kind of in a gaming slump and money is tight. Good to see the game getting some love. It will be awesome to play at a proper frame rate and mouse aiming.

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Unreal was terrible. I played it when it was new and it was boring as shit. I played it again a couple years ago and it was still boring as shit. I don't understand why that game gets the adulations it does; other than a halfway-interesting opener with the big open vista there's really nothing to recommend it. It's a game that's built on being pretty instead of being fun.

But 1998 was also the year we got Thief: The Dark Project. And, of course, Turok 2.

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dethtoll said:

Unreal was terrible. I played it when it was new and it was boring as shit. I played it again a couple years ago and it was still boring as shit. I don't understand why that game gets the adulations it does; other than a halfway-interesting opener with the big open vista there's really nothing to recommend it. It's a game that's built on being pretty instead of being fun.

But 1998 was also the year we got Thief: The Dark Project. And, of course, Turok 2.


This is the first time I can recall anyone saying something negative about Unreal. It pushed the graphical capabilities for computers at the time, its weapons were brilliant (the flak cannon being one of the all time greats), the environments were gorgeous, the sound design was perfect, The artificial intelligence was challenging, and everything about the package gave you the feeling of being stranded on this believable and immersive alien world. The Nali were very annoying and the expansion was a bit lacking, but that's where my criticisms end. Unreal is if anything, underrated.

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1998 was the year of SiN for me,incredibly underrated due to its bugs but when you finally got past them you had a fantastic fun shooter.
I always found both Unreal and Half-life fairly boring and found most of Half-Lifes mods better than Half-Life itself.

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Unreal is extremely frustrating to play. i remember liking it back in the day, but it hasn't aged very gracefully (except the music, it is excellent). Half Life i haven't played in a while, but at least it was a smidgen more gratifying to shoot things in it.

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vinnie245 said:

I always found both Unreal and Half-life fairly boring and found most of Half-Lifes mods better than Half-Life itself.

I pretty much enjoyed the Opposing Force expansion more than the base game.

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I will never understand people who think levels 4 and 5 are difficult to navigate. Turok 2 was my first ever PC FPS, and second ever FPS overall (after the snes doom), and I was also pretty much a little kid when I played this game, and somehow I managed to beat it.

Hopefully they didn't screw the levels up too much. An undergound network of caves and an alien bug hive are MEANT to be a little bit dauntingly mazelike, dammit!

Also, where the hell did "grappling ledges" come from? No Turok game had it to my knowledge, the Turok 1 remaster didn't have it...

I hope they fixed the plasma rifle and various explosive weapons' hit detection, that's really the only thing that's ever bothered me in this game. But whatever the case, I'm buying this as soon as it comes out, whatever the price is. Hopefully they'll get to Turok 3 too. It was definitely different, but I thought the mood and atmosphere of that game were brilliant, and the gameplay would've been really fun if the enemies weren't hardwired to hit you whether you dodged the visible projectiles or not.

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Antroid said:

I will never understand people who think levels 4 and 5 are difficult to navigate. Turok 2 was my first ever PC FPS, and second ever FPS overall (after the snes doom), and I was also pretty much a little kid when I played this game, and somehow I managed to beat it.


When you're young you don't know any better, even if it's for thematic purposes an overly long, overly complex level is rarely enjoyable, and this is coming from the guy who beat Redneck Rampage, found most of the secret areas, and didn't resort to a walkthrough for the sewer and uranium mine levels for the first time five years ago.

I did get through Turok 2's Hive of the Mantids a long time ago but it wasn't the most exciting experience with all the copypaste corridors and repetitive setpiece sections that went on for three hours. The Lair of the Blind Ones however has me stumped to this day, and I can chalk it up to simply being bad conveyance. If an automap can't save you, nothing can.

Antroid said:

Hopefully they didn't screw the levels up too much. An undergound network of caves and an alien bug hive are MEANT to be a little bit dauntingly mazelike, dammit!


If it's anything like the Turok 1 remaster, it will be a bit more streamlined, you still get the general idea of an underground ruins and treetop village in the first game very well without some redundant hallways or meaningless dead ends. Compared to the original level design, the remaster was 95% faithful.

They still ended up releasing the unedited original levels as workshop content, so I'm sure they'll do the same thing with Turok 2 if it bugs purists bad enough. I put up with Turok 1's shit on PC enough times throughout the years that I will never go back to the original treetop village again, which was my most hated level in that game.

Antroid said:

Also, where the hell did "grappling ledges" come from? No Turok game had it to my knowledge, the Turok 1 remaster didn't have it...


Considering Turok 2 has very little platforming in it compared to the first game I'm admittedly curious about this addition, but I am still overjoyed that they improved the movement speed. You can barely sidestep anything in the original Turok 2 and it's BS if you're playing on hard.

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Cyanosis said:

Considering Turok 2 has very little platforming in it compared to the first game I'm admittedly curious about this addition, but I am still overjoyed that they improved the movement speed. You can barely sidestep anything in the original Turok 2 and it's BS if you're playing on hard.

There's less platforming in Turok2, but it sure did a lot of waist high walls that you were forced to walk around. They weren't blocking a sequence or anything, they were just there. Meanwhile we kept finding the platforming that did exist could be very unforgiving at times even with the improved controls.

Very early in development, Kaiser threw in some code that ran the end of the ladder climb sequence when you mid touched a region edge while in the air, and an anti-frustration feature was born.

Plus it turned out to be ultra fun in multiplayer, and really improved the map flow for a couple of the maps.

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Edward850 said:

There's less platforming in Turok2, but it sure did a lot of waist high walls that you were forced to walk around. They weren't blocking a sequence or anything, they were just there. Meanwhile we kept finding the platforming that did exist could be very unforgiving at times even with the improved controls.

Very early in development, Kaiser threw in some code that ran the end of the ladder climb sequence when you mid touched a region edge while in the air, and an anti-frustration feature was born.

Plus it turned out to be ultra fun in multiplayer, and really improved the map flow for a couple of the maps.


That's pretty awesome and yeah the jump in T2 sucked because of the aforementioned nerfed mobility, so I can see getting around these mammoth levels being a lot more bearable now.

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I liked the mobility in the original too :( Sure you couldn't weave left and right to dodge everything easily, but not every FPS needs to be Doom. I remember that dodging the mantids' bullshit rapidfire in level 5 got downright strategic when you could only strafe past them once.

Maybe my brain is just making excuses for why I still love this game so much, but I'm really not a fan of all these changes and additions. Not everyone agrees on what's best for a game like this. This stuff should at least be optional, like the extra fog distance in T1 was. Or like jumping in doom ports.

I still enjoy overly long and overly complex levels in games when it is appropriate thematically (though I don't agree that levels 4 or 5 were either, they're both pretty simple, much easier than exploring and remembering some metroidvania style game, something like Shadowman. I have no idea how people have troubles with those levels if they have the map and basic spacial navigation skills) and I kind of despise the very idea of streamlining level design, so yeah, maybe I'll wait for the unchanged levels.

Edit: turns out the unchanged levels for T1 weren't even an official release, and to top it off I can't even get them to work. Doesn't give me much hope for the same in T2...

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Antroid said:

I liked the mobility in the original too :( Sure you couldn't weave left and right to dodge everything easily, but not every FPS needs to be Doom. I remember that dodging the mantids' bullshit rapidfire in level 5 got downright strategic when you could only strafe past them once.

Maybe my brain is just making excuses for why I still love this game so much, but I'm really not a fan of all these changes and additions. Not everyone agrees on what's best for a game like this. This stuff should at least be optional, like the extra fog distance in T1 was. Or like jumping in doom ports.

Edit: turns out the unchanged levels for T1 weren't even an official release, and to top it off I can't even get them to work. Doesn't give me much hope for the same in T2...


Thing is it's inconsistent, Turok in the original is very fast and jumps high and far, giving you all sorts of mobility and defense options, makes sense given he is suppose to be a powerful warrior. The successor to him in 2 is suppose to be younger but he's still branded the title of friggin' Son of Stone, the protector of our world from inter-dimensional threats, and he can only muster a basic trot, forget jumping.

I'm betting they'll have it listed as 'improved movement' you can toggle on and off, same with the grappling I'm sure.

Also in case you didn't know it's kinda unorthodox to launch user content for T1, you have to subscribe to a mod and then launch the editor, not the regular game, and launch an editor game instead, selecting the mod to use for it in advance.

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