Nova III - old thread, don't use!

[P1NKAC1D]

6 hours ago, Scotty said:

I don't understand why you had to force all 3 episode themes into this map, it didn't add anything to it. In fact it felt like two completely unrelated maps mashed together.

Actually I only see two themes, moon and acient civilizations... Where's the third?

 

I got the idea to this map when reading Alien: Sea of Sorrows, in which a planet is being terraformed, and in old mines they find ruins of an acient civilization. It was really fascinating to read and I thought this would be a nice theme for a map.

 

Do you think switching back to Episode 2 would be a good idea, so everything may fit more in the acient temples and stuff theme?

 

The part with the square rooms was inspired by the movie Cube, where People are trapped in a shape shifting, cube formed maze. But I have to admit, I ran out of ideas what to build next at that part...

 

The "making the floor flat" part sounds interesting. I guess you mean the problem with the players camera jumping up and down because of the loose floor tiles (i just wanted to make everything look old and decayed). It's the first time I map in Boom Format, so I don't know every trick and Feature of it.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Chainworm666

[EffinghamHuffnagel]

9 hours ago, Chainworm666 said:

Tested with PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4

 

Here's the download:

"pure" version, map only: http://chainworm.de/files/terramin.rar

"full" version including the Nova III texture pack for instant play testing: http://chainworm.de/files/terramin-full.rar

 

Please share any bugs, problems etc. you encounter or any other kind of feedback.

 

Very cool map! Great detailing. I've always been a sucker for 'lost civilization' maps. The 'cube' area confused me a little and the scrolling blood room made me a bit nauseous, but otherwise, nice. Played with ZDoom. FYI, clicking on either link gets you the 'full' version.

 

One bug, one happy accident, one question.

 

The Cyber never teleported in because an Arachno was blocking his landing spot. Need to loop him in his closet. Or wake him up in the closet and slow down the scrolling so he can walk back against it. 

 

I didn't realize the 'small' version didn't have the music in the wad, so I ended up playing with my default music, Doom64. The ambient music actually made the trip through the underground areas more suspenseful.

 

Is it assumed that the Player always has oxygen with him or should outdoor moon areas be damaging? Is there is some sort of dome over these areas? Should the sky reflect that, like EP3 in Heretic? I wonder if this is something that needs to be consistent across all moon maps. I've always been annoyed by mapsets that have, say, blood/sludge be slightly damaging in one map, very damaging in another, and not damaging at all in still other maps. Never sure what to trust.

 

Good map.

[P1NKAC1D]

58 minutes ago, EffinghamHuffnagel said:

FYI, clicking on either link gets you the 'full' Version.

Oops... Fixed that.

 

Quote

The Cyber never teleported in because an Arachno was blocking his landing spot. Need to loop him in his closet. Or wake him up in the closet and slow down the scrolling so he can walk back against it.

Thanks for the info, I never tried to let him appear while the Arachnos are still alive... I guess removing the Scrolling floor and waking him up instead is a better idea.

 

Quote

I didn't realize the 'small' version didn't have the music in the wad, so I ended up playing with my default music, Doom64. The ambient music actually made the trip through the underground areas more suspenseful.

I have to agree, something more ambient would fit better here. It was just the only custom midi I had, AcidicVoid, who also did the Music to Chainworm Kommando lost all his other midis in a hard drive Crash a while ago, so this was the only one left...

 

Quote

Is it assumed that the Player always has oxygen with him or should outdoor moon areas be damaging? Is there is some sort of dome over these areas? Should the sky reflect that, like EP3 in Heretic? I wonder if this is something that needs to be consistent across all moon maps. I've always been annoyed by mapsets that have, say, blood/sludge be slightly damaging in one map, very damaging in another, and not damaging at all in still other maps. Never sure what to trust.

Actually I didn't think about this Topic too much, but I guess the Doom Marine wears a helmet all the time, so he may have Oxygen with him... As mentioned in the last post, I'm thinking about switching the map back to Episode 2 with temple/jungle/swamps theme anyway...

 

Thanks for your Feedback!

[P1NKAC1D]

Here's an updated version of the map, switched back to the Episode 2 theme which fits better in my opinion.

Also changed the Cyberdemon appearance, he should be teleported now even if he will be blocked at first.

Download: http://www.chainworm.de/files/terrmin2.rar

 

But there's a strange bug with the sky now at some places - anybody knows how to fix this?

Spoiler

 

 

[Scotty]

17 hours ago, Chainworm666 said:

Actually I only see two themes, moon and acient civilizations... Where's the third?

 

I got the idea to this map when reading Alien: Sea of Sorrows, in which a planet is being terraformed, and in old mines they find ruins of an acient civilization. It was really fascinating to read and I thought this would be a nice theme for a map.

 

Do you think switching back to Episode 2 would be a good idea, so everything may fit more in the acient temples and stuff theme?

 

The part with the square rooms was inspired by the movie Cube, where People are trapped in a shape shifting, cube formed maze. But I have to admit, I ran out of ideas what to build next at that part...

 

The "making the floor flat" part sounds interesting. I guess you mean the problem with the players camera jumping up and down because of the loose floor tiles (i just wanted to make everything look old and decayed). It's the first time I map in Boom Format, so I don't know every trick and Feature of it.

 

The marble areas are sometimes associated with hellish themes especially the red marble. Anyway. I did briefly look at your revised map, i think the first areas are better for the changes actually, it feels like an old mine or something. I'm not sure about the sky issue, paging @AD_79...

 

For creating a flat floor that appears to be bumpy you use boom linedef action 242. It's really useful trick to know how to use actually. I made a quick demo map for how it works (download here) so you can examine how it works for yourself. Compare the map in the editor vs ingame, pay attention to the floor levels of various sectors.

 

To try and briefly explain what is going on - you have the floors set flat within the space of the map. This is physically what the player moves around on. Outside of the main map, you have referencing sectors set to certain heights, these are what create an 'illusion' so to speak. With the referencing sectors you need one of the walls set to linedef action 242, and of course tag everything as necessary. It does take some thought to get your head around how it works, but it's a very worthwhile trick to learn. You can easily create deep water effects and stuff using this tool. Hope this helps... any questions ask away. I'm no Boom expert but i have picked up a couple of tricks here and there.

[AD_79]

Removing the 0-tagged sky transfer action (on linedef 9597) seems to fix the problem (an alternative fix is to change the action to 272 and set the horizontal offset to zero, though it would be better to delete it).

[P1NKAC1D]

14 hours ago, Scotty said:

For creating a flat floor that appears to be bumpy you use boom linedef action 242. It's really useful trick to know how to use actually. I made a quick demo map for how it works (download here) so you can examine how it works for yourself. Compare the map in the editor vs ingame, pay attention to the floor levels of various sectors.

Thanks! It doesn't sound that difficult, I already read tutorials about "Deep water" and stuff, but never got the idea to use it like this... I will take a look at the demo map!

 

14 hours ago, AD_79 said:

Removing the 0-tagged sky transfer action (on linedef 9597) seems to fix the problem (an alternative fix is to change the action to 272 and set the horizontal offset to zero, though it would be better to delete it).

Thanks, that did the trick. Must have forgotten to delete it when I removed the sector that used it. Fixed this, link is updated

[NeedHealth]

My map is done the way I want it to be, only testing left. I can't think of any more big changes I would like to make mapwise. My leisure time will be at a premium again starting late Sunday so I made it to the finish line running on fumes and hopes basically. I added 4 deathmatch positions. I might upload a few screenshots but it is mostly cosmetic changes done and moving things back and forth to see what I like. My last post contained exactly those changes in the form of screenshots so go ogle that.

 

Q-> What is a typical number of deathmatch positions in a map ? I have four currently, which I tried and almost succeeded in spacing out appropriately. Should I add more than 4 deathmath positions ?

 

I will post the download link tomorrow maybe 5 minutes before I leave for work - I am that indecisive, sorry.

[Albertoni]

ALRIGHT, HERE'S A NEW MAP FOR THIS, BAYBEEEEE

 

@AD_79, please don't forget to update the forcefield graphics on the ANIMATED lump. I did some detailing for Redead's map and it kinda really, really requires those to look remotely decent :3

 

Anyway, here's The Ship That Wore A Mask: https://www.dropbox.com/s/is5q57sipa2qgb1/MAP21.wad?dl=1 Yes, this plays on MAP21, so you get the right sky with prboom and stuff.

Eagerly, eagerly awaiting a few FDAs. Be warned, UV is stupidly/deliciously hard, as I tried to model the gameplay on... What do you kids call it again, butchermap? I've died more than 10 times to complete this map. Don't be afraid to save in the demos if you think the situation deserves a save.

 

I wasn't able to fix the slime trails, but I did fix the sky filling the screen, so... Good enough, as the trails use the same texture. If anyone cares, moving the sky from 30000 units down to 4000 fixed it.

 

I didn't add any coop or deathmatch starts, should I? And the music might be a bit divisive, I might change if nobody thinks it's good and more than one person thinks it's bad.

 

3 hours ago, NeedHealth said:

Q-> What is a typical number of deathmatch positions in a map ? I have four currently, which I tried and almost succeeded in spacing out appropriately. Should I add more than 4 deathmath positions ?

Depends on the size of the map, for yours 8 are more than good enough. That said, this is mainly a single player project. My map, as it is, absolutely won't work with deathmatch and can be completely broken in coop.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Albertoni

[Sapfiar]

Hi! I`m looking for a place in the project NOVA3, if there is free slot for the level in to the episode 2 ?

[Scotty]

FWIW i think all maps should be playable in co-op, dunno if AD agrees, but this is something that the guys in TNS could potentially play at some point down the line for example. I can't see anyone bothering with DM on these maps...

 

Anyway, @Albertoni i played your map (pretty lazy playing with a few deaths cause of it), video below, with a lot of small specific thoughts given as i played. I think there are a couple of issues with the map and mentioned them in the video. The first vile room is clearly broken...

 

 

General things i didn't mention:

• I thought the 'story' of the map, ie the outright theme was cool and got the idea that this base was, say, merging with another dimension (hope i understood your intentions correctly). I liked some of the details in the map, nice swirly things that remind me of Sunlust. It added to the narrative of the map very well too. 
• Some of the lighting touches on the map were really nice.
• Ammo is tight as fuck, i ignored that first vile room and punched some stuff out, and then barely finished that rev/vile trap with anything left. Even a box of shells in that room would be good, or generally more bullets placed around the map, some more rockets in the map would be even better and help keep the combat pace up rather than just doing quite a lot of SSG grinding.
• Some of the silent teleport stuff... does it really need to be there? The one going up to the top level in the RSK room was needlessly disorienting as it sends the player in from a completely unintuitive direction - if i had left the revs alive they would probably have done damage through sheer confusion, and it would have felt immensely cheap. Two simple teleporters from bottom to top do the same job in a much more understandable way.
• The rev/vile room was suddenly way harder than anything else until that point, a large difficulty spike. Quite odd and surprising after generally pretty easy incidental combat until that point.

 

Ok, the last fight. Arachnotrons surrounding the player like that can be quite random because sometimes they can create complete walls of crossfire that are unavoidable, and sometimes they won't. So as you saw i basically just tried to clear out the beserk so it was available and ran around with my fingers crossed that i would survive that first part. More health might help this area of the map, it would help survival if you got bad rng and wouldn't make it less fun. After that the Mancubii are a pretty easy clearout. And again as you saw, if you know the viles are coming you can prefire loads of rockets and it's quite easy to deal with them. This fight was pretty linear - just clear things out in sections with a lot of straferunning. Some enemies on the floor would make the fight more interesting, perhaps even having a Cyber there at the start and some other enforcement monsters, HK's, imps, demons, revs could all work. Maybe even swapping the arachnos to HK's or even Barons, and having Arachnos on the floor could work really well. @rdwpa is helpful with feedback with this kind of setup (see the last 5min of the vid for this fight), maybe they can add something more useful.

[Spectre01]

I mentioned this some time back, but has the FIELDR texture in the pack been updated to be animated or are there any plans to get it working like that? I like that one and want to use it quite a bit in my moon map.

[Scotty]

I hope it gets updated at some point. Basic shit like WFALL isn't even in the pack...

[NeedHealth]

I'll try make a Jungle map in addition to my Hell map because I realized I might have a few tricks up my sleave that I haven't tested yet.

 

Nothing promised though.

[AD_79]

14 hours ago, Sapfiar said:

Hi! I`m looking for a place in the project NOVA3, if there is free slot for the level in to the episode 2 ?

Yep. Welcome aboard!

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

FWIW i think all maps should be playable in co-op, dunno if AD agrees, but this is something that the guys in TNS could potentially play at some point down the line for example. I can't see anyone bothering with DM on these maps...

Co-op support is nice. I don't think DM support is needed, but if someone really wants to include support for it on their map, I'm not gonna stop them.

 

1 hour ago, Spectre01 said:

I mentioned this some time back, but has the FIELDR texture in the pack been updated to be animated or are there any plans to get it working like that? I like that one and want to use it quite a bit in my moon map.

Hmm, I think it was updated to animate when I compiled the alpha ages ago. I'll have to check. Also, hearing that WFALL isn't in there is surprising, and will be fixed soon.

[SArais]

I'm taking a glance at the megiddo map I was 'sketching' there and there's a bunch of things that probably could be changed. Bark up the tree if/once any changes have been made, don't want to disrupt any "forks"

[Albertoni]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I hope it gets updated at some point. Basic shit like WFALL isn't even in the pack...

It's called WATFALL, heh. Thanks A LOT for the video and critique, by the way.

 

- As for the other complaints, yeah, I didn't even consider people going the other way into the first arch-vile room. Nor did my testers, isn't that right @Negrostrike? All your fault, bub.

- No idea what to do with the skybox wrap. I guess I could raise the floor blocking sight a bit, or have the ship parked in a depression instead of a raised area.

- The fall-teleport thing, yes. It's intended to give a mild confusion, as is the vent. That said, I'll think on something. Might change it so the player falls looking towards the revenants. It won't be a transparent illusion thanks to the fake contrast on the lines, but I can live with 99% perfect ones.

- As for the second arch-vile, yes. I did add a bit of ammo and a lot of dead bodies to the area as an afterthought after playtesting... But forgot to flag them to appear on hard. Also, you got the blue key in the secret, you can pretty much skip that fight. :)

- Yes, that fight-skipping thing on the last battle is intentional. As is letting you run in circles, using the raised middle to align shots until the arachnotrons and the mancubi kill themselves a bit. Or leaving the mancubi alone so the cibbie gets a lot of side-damage going on. The idea was a bit of a puzzle fight. If you kill a few of the arachnotrons on each corner, the fight suddenly becomes way more dangerous as they can shoot freely now.

 

BTW, nice SSG shot killing two mancubi at once on the bottom of the red key room.

Oh, and you missed the super-secret. Given that it's an easter egg for a friend and contains a last-battle-breaking BFG, it's both unmarked and non-obvious.

Spoiler

Jump on the brown crate in the first room. The Soulsphere secret will be slightly different.

 

 

32 minutes ago, SArais said:

I'm taking a glance at the megiddo map I was 'sketching' there and there's a bunch of things that probably could be changed. Bark up the tree if/once any changes have been made, don't want to disrupt any "forks"

Now that my map is done, I'll start to poke on yours. Feel free to send me a PM with any thoughts, but I did see a lot of stuff I'd change, specially the forced HOMs. I'm not against those, but in the middle of a normal mapset, even in that context, they are, uh... Unsightly.

[Negostrike]

If people go to the archie room first, it's their own fault. Keep up the good work bub.

[SArais]

19 minutes ago, Albertoni said:

@Negrostrike

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Now that my map is done, I'll start to poke on yours. Feel free to send me a PM with any thoughts, but I did see a lot of stuff I'd change, specially the forced HOMs. I'm not against those, but in the middle of a normal mapset, even in that context, they are, uh... Unsightly.

Yeah, I was experimenting with "hom art/paintings" and general use of delibrate HOMS like in Count Trakula (50 shades of greytall), certainly in the midst of cleaning it. I'll see what changes I can propose on my end, see what you had in mind, and go from there. This is a proposed  "megiddo" map concept after all; and despite my initial ideas, i don't think i conveyed both my thoughts and that of the theme's.

It would probably be best used in conjunction with another proper special effect.

I was sort of thinking this temple would be subterrenian to some extent, so likely putting some holes in the initial room and bits of sky and 'trees' near the holes

Edited June 26, 2017 by SArais

[SleepyVelvet]

@SArais Cool.  Though keep in mind that if you are going with stylized HOMs, I would recommend testing in all sorts of source ports:

 

prboom+ will look different than glboom+ and zdoom and gzdoom.  I say this because the current form of your map is giving some missing flat textures in prboom+ (using texture pack from op).  It makes it hard to differentiate what is a bug and a feature here in my version of prboom+.

 

Also, using only plain ol' skybox could be a cleaner and safer option than mixing too much HOM into the void theme, even though using HOMs is a bold and fun to try out.  I don't want to sound inhibiting here or anything, but am just stating some options I guess.  Whatever you do, good luck. :)

 

edit: i'm using prboom-plus 2.5.1.3 if that helps

[SArais]

3 minutes ago, NoisyVelvet said:

@SArais Cool.  Though keep in mind that if you are going with stylized HOMs, I would recommend testing in all sorts of source ports:

 

prboom+ will look different than glboom+ and zdoom and gzdoom.  I say this because the current form of your map is giving some missing flat textures in prboom+ (using texture pack from op).  It makes it hard to differentiate what is a bug and a feature here in my version of prboom+.

 

Also, using only plain ol' skybox could be a cleaner and safer option than mixing too much HOM into the void theme, even though using HOMs is a bold and fun to try out.  I don't want to sound inhibiting here or anything, but am just stating some options I guess.  Whatever you do, good luck. :)

 

edit: i'm using prboom-plus 2.5.1.3 if that helps

 

Push comes to shove I'll merely fork out of my existing maps.

[Spectre01]

8 hours ago, AD_79 said:

Hmm, I think it was updated to animate when I compiled the alpha ages ago. I'll have to check.

I've tried using both the alpha and the texture pack as a resource and couldn't get FFIELDR to animate while testing. Test map for the texture attached. 

FieldTest.zip

[NeedHealth]

Hey, I forgot because I never use it; How do I add music to my level in a way that is compatible with the rest of the megawad ??

[Albertoni]

1 hour ago, NeedHealth said:

Hey, I forgot because I never use it; How do I add music to my level in a way that is compatible with the rest of the megawad ??

You can't, without knowing the exact map slot that it will end in. Just name it D_RUNNIN so it'll play when people load your map for testing, then when AD compiles all the maps they'll arrange things as needed.

[Snikle]

Go ahead and sign me up. I have a few ideas that might work in a hell map, so I'll take a slot in E1.

[NeedHealth]

9 hours ago, Albertoni said:

You can't, without knowing the exact map slot that it will end in. Just name it D_RUNNIN so it'll play when people load your map for testing, then when AD compiles all the maps they'll arrange things as needed.

You obviously know how to do this, so could I ask you for your help in changing the automap name/end level screen to Dante Allegory ? The music I've already changed.

 

edit: I'll be back with a link, dunno what happend.

Edited June 27, 2017 by NeedHealth

[Scotty]

23 hours ago, Albertoni said:

- No idea what to do with the skybox wrap. I guess I could raise the floor blocking sight a bit, or have the ship parked in a depression instead of a raised area.

 

You could perhaps find a space skybox that wraps vertically and do a sky transfer for those specific sections?

[NeedHealth]

As I said, I'll need Alphonos help in changing the automap name and the end screen name to Dante Allegory. I did manage to alter the music in xwe.

 

with little fanfare

Dante Allegory (updated Sunday July the third)

 

please record an .lmp if you play this map!

 

e - some screenshots and a header.

Edited July 2, 2017 by NeedHealth : updated the map

[Albertoni]

40 minutes ago, NeedHealth said:

You obviously know how to do this, so could I ask you for your help in changing the automap name/end level screen to Dante Allegory ? The music I've already changed.

Same problem, you need to know in which slot it'll go, and for the end level text, edit a graphic. Don't know how to generate images in the Doom font. Don't worry too much, it will be fixed in the end.

 

36 minutes ago, Scotty said:

 

You could perhaps find a space skybox that wraps vertically and do a sky transfer for those specific sections?

Shame, I really like that Earth skybox.

[Scotty]

@NeedHealth i wouldn't worry about map names and stuff, they get sorted eventually.

 

@Albertoni i am sure it's possible to create skyboxes that fully wrap actually, maybe i could try and make one (as a complete replacement of the E3 skybox we have now or something, if AD is cool with that).