Litrivin said:

MAP31. 100% doable with certain gimmicks.


100% kills/items/secrets demos for each skill level

I think with map31 the only part that is genuinely luck based is the squeeze past the north cyberdemon in the east room. It's a coin flip as to whether the monster moves out of the way or not.

Everywhere else I believe you can with practice raise your chances of success to a point where deaths feel like your own fault rather than bad luck. There's plenty of shells to shoot the buttons if you aim carefully. Imps can be punched with berserk - shells need not be saved for them. Finally for the one cyberdemon not on a teleporter, you have three BFG shots, and there is a well-known two-shot technique for them that can be perfected.

I am not saying the map is easy to 100%. I died many times. But aside from the aforementioned squeeze I found it acceptable for a secret map that is a stealth-based puzzle whose title clearly indicates it is not to be played "normally".

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Beat me to it. I managed to find out how to exactly progress through map up until the last cyberdemon, and the only luck part is the initial squeeze. The rest of the map requires good accuracy and positioning to kill the first 5 cybers, with a final showdown against the last cyberdemon.

It takes practice. I too died many times trying to figure out a good strategy here. Its gimmicky nap fit for a secret map, and it can be very easy or very hard, upto the player.

I bet speedrunners will love this map.

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Sounds like MAP31 is good to keep then. I have not really tested 100% though. Remember Skill 2 needs to be substantially easier, even on secret maps. Also players going for 100% should have access a real secret exit. Then can retag current secret exit as normal.

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max kills/items/secrets for C4M8 on each skill level

Unoptimized first exits recorded with the map cheat on, as it's easy to miss things (or blunder into unexpected cyberdemons / stray rockets...) but should be adequate to prove 100% is achievable.

________


map31 again:

Voros said:

I bet speedrunners will love this map.


Can confirm, not that I'm much of a speedrunner but I've already found myself trying to optimize it. Need to inspire some of the professionals...

Catoptromancy said:

Remember Skill 2 needs to be substantially easier, even on secret maps.


One way to make it substantially easier would be not to hide the red key in a pod but place it out in the open. (While recording yesterday it was an unwelcome surprise to find the key changing pods on different skills!) Also, there is already one less cyberdemon, but the one guarding the exit could also disappear. Although that might make it too easy, even for skill 2.

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I think C4M8 has backtrack block from the start and at exit. Could just put a teleporter near exit switch to go back to start room.

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Woah, I missed the chat about MAP31 -- that one's mine, so a little commentary:

I fully admit, the north-east Cyb/Tripod was a bit of a dick move on my part for 100% runs. I had a 3/4 chance of squeezing past the left side of it, which I considered "good enough", and yeah I was tight as fuck with the BFG ammo because the two-shot technique is what you're supposed to go for -- at the time, I could never pull it off consistently, which is the real reason for the shotgun and shells in the map -- yes, you're supposed to zerk the imps (and pistol the buttons).

RjY makes some good suggestions re: difficulty. I could put those into practice if nobody else wants to?

EDIT

Actually, I'll get in on this when I've a spare moment, so I can stick in a proper secret exit for y'all. :)

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Skill 3, c1m8,c2m7 and c2m8, 100%

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Jayextee said:

I was tight as fuck with the BFG ammo because the two-shot technique is what you're supposed to go for


Well, I initially thought that you put only one BFG 9000 / SKAG 1337, with no extra ammo, mainly because at first sight sprites of big energy (cells, not health) packs and big medkits seem somewhat similar...

Ok, waiting for the adjustments and fixes, when you have a spare moment.

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MAP17: Adjust skill 2 somewhat heavily, skill 3 a little. Skill 4 is untouched. Skill 2 and 3 played to 100% also.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/maps/map17_c2.wad

C4M2: Add a switch in secret exit to open bars, will allow backtracking. Make ledges in secret route non-damaging and made pit below into 20% damage slime, will allow jumpers to risk death for a couple shells. 10 DM starts.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/maps/c4m2_c2.wad

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Not sure it is reasonable to 100% maps at the moment. In another thread, a lot of maps are being replaced. I know some people still play maps to 100%, so this is still a good place to report their progress.

Can keep the list updated as new maps come in and we can make sure they are 100% as soon as they arrive. Also going to add in the few vanilla bug reports, so list is of all issues.

All new maps are required to be 100% and vanilla.

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max kills/items/secrets for C4M7 on each skill level

 

This one has a few bugs which might be worth fixing (if you don't mind risking shitting up a cacoward winner ;) )

 

- a secret teleporter (sector 932) is inside-out, the lines face the wrong way. It still works but you have to walk over it instead of just onto it, so it feels wrong.

 

- the lift out of the blue key area (sector 282) is only activatable twice from below (it is split into two single-use linedefs). I remember a bunch of us getting stuck there when the original wad was featured in Odamex Nitro.

 

- immediately after that you reach a teleporter (sector 883) which takes you back to the start of the map. I think it would be good to have a monster blocking line in front of this, otherwise there are three imps which at some point wake up, use the teleporter, and then can be a right pain to track down.

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Nice finds! Will fix them at some point, or someone else can. I am still focused on getting all the maps vanilla.

 

Will balance skill levels once I am on a windows computer. GZ/DB2  is the miles ahead for skill balancing. 

Edited by Catoptromancy

Posted (edited)

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Is it safe to test the C4Mx maps? In this context, safe means there is no risk of major changes which invalidate any past run. I have never played the original Double Impact, so playing this famous episode seems exciting.

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C4M6 needs editing on lower skills. Still maybe best to wait until I fix it. Rest of episode is good for playing.

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Skill 4.

 

C4M1: 100%/100%/100%, no issues discovered.

 

Edit:

 

C4M2: 100%/100%/100%. Both exits function properly.

 

Comments: there are at least two lifts of only one use (linedefs 3456 and 3452) and it is impossible to backtrack to an entire section, because of one bridge of only one use (linedef 2541) and one crusher (sector 466) which blocks the section. Interestingly, there is one teleporter which does nothing, sector 751.

Edited by Litrivin

Posted (edited)

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On 3/5/2017 at 8:45 AM, Voros said:

I don't understand why I keep getting 50% secrets on map01 though. I got the red armor secret and the armor bonus secret.

 

The Doom engine is just shitty at handling certain things, and small/narrow "open air" (as opposed to ones where the player must enter an enclosed niche) secret areas have always been one of these Achilles' heels.

 

You have to be detected as standing on the actual floor of the tagged sector to be counted as getting a secret; as such, secrets that the player is likely to cross over quickly can be fiddly to trigger depending on exactly how and when the player happens to dart across the sector. This red armour is such a case; another case is one secret sector near the end on Memento Mori MAP16 (the sector is only 8 units wide & it's easy to walk right over it without the game seeing you as ever having been in it, some people in the 90s actually mistakenly thought 100% secrets not to be possible here). (It doesn't help that I'm not quite 100% on how often "being in a secret" is checked for; I'm not sure if the game does it every tic, or only every second at the same time as it's checking to see if you need to take damage from the floor)

 

At least such secrets actually are possible though; a common design flaw is to, for instance, have a narrow secret next to a raised platform, which frequently can never be credited because the player either can not actually enter the secret (think Doom E4M7) or can only be within the geometry of it at locations where the platform makes it impossible for the player to contact the floor (e.g., Icarus MAP13) ...

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If those lifts are supposed to be usable only one time, they are OK. Noticed the new teleporter, now one can backtrack (taking some damage by the slime...) to the zone blocked by that crusher.

 

Skill 4.

 

C4M9: 100%/100%/100%, nothing to report.

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2 minutes ago, Litrivin said:

If those lifts are supposed to be usable only one time, they are OK.

DId I not fix them? I think I fixed them 2 updates ago. If they are still broken, please post screenshot. 

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Hit lift, not switch. Switch only works once. Once lift is up, you can trigger it directly. 

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The lift itself does nothing.

 

By the way, the difficulty curve of episode 4 seems somewhat weird, due to levels 2 / 3 being swapped (engine limitations, as usual) and the challenging secret level being played before than the original level 2, which currently acts as a breather level.

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Confirmed, now (in the updated PWAD, not in the current IWAD) this lift is repeatable.

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Skill 4.

 

C4M3: 100%/100%/100%, nothing to report.

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Skill 4.

 

C4M4: 100%/100%/100%. Initially, only 85% for secrets.

 

Comments: due to the really small size of last secret sector, the one which gives access to one heavy armor and some ammo, it is very possible discover it without actually getting credit for it, unless the player steps forth and back carefully on that sector.

Edited by Litrivin

Posted (edited)

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Skill 4:

 

New MAP28: 109%/100%/100%.

 

Comments: while kills are inflated due to monsters resurrected by flame bringers, I have discarded there are living monsters by entering the TNTEM code, which reported 0 monsters killed, just before than exiting.

 

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