Quake Champions

[MrGlide]

27 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

200 health when you only had 100.

In theory this is compensated by the fact the the lighter classes are much faster, mobile and have far smaller hitboxes. So as where hitscan and high rof weapons will be more effective against the larger heros, explosives will be more effective against the smaller heros.

[DooM_RO]

5 hours ago, MrGlide said:

even then, if the opponent has overcharged health and/or armor to compensate, they can still survive a 100 damage attack. I think the tankier guys are a tad op right now honestly, with the ammount of armor the can have plus overcharged health can make some ungodly effective hp.

 

Nope, they have huge hitboxes.

[Koko Ricky]

Hitboxes? I thought games used a per-pixel or per-vertex system these days?

[MrGlide]

I'm not actually sure what hit detection system quake champions uses.

[Arctangent]

Those can still be pretty expensive, especially for a multiplayer game, especially since you can have a whole bunch of hitboxes tied to the models' bones nowadays to do roughly the same effect but with less precision and therefore simplified checks. Not to mention that the hitbox used to collide with level geometry and other non-projectile objects still tends to be a non-rotating rectangular prism or cylinder, since it's really not necessary to use anything more complex.

 

And all that's ignoring that "hitbox" in the general sense can refer to those per-pixel collision systems; even if they're not strictly speaking using the hitbox method, they're still areas that define whether a collision can occur between two things. I think hitscans might use per-pixel collision checks, since they only need to do the check for one tic and don't have to worry about their own collision box, since they have none.

[DooM_RO]

Anyone know why ques got a lot longer?

[Flesh420]

20 hours ago, Arctangent said:

I've noticed. I've also noticed that damage numbers aren't cumulative, so if you're using a rapid-fire weapon you've just got a bunch of 7s to work with which isn't exactly easy to add up in your head while you're trying to do a bunch of other stuff. Same deal with the shotgun and the rocket launcher, which do heavily inconsistent damage, meaning you're having to add 54s, 4s, 43s, etc. all at once. And that's all if you catch the numbers instead of just vaguely glaze over them.

 

Of course, 80 + shotgun doesn't help either, considering I've actually dealt 108 damage with a shotgun meatshot and the guy still didn't die.

They need to bring the splash dmg of RL close to Q3A. Right now the almost non-existent splash and terrible network problems don't mix well at all.  It might not be so bad if it weren't for the lag problems. 

 

And at first I didn't like the hp differences between 'classes,' especially in duel. But I can down a tank with light champions now that I'm more experienced.

[notjimmyboigreez]

IMO the game looks great, not sure why it wont be coming to consoles, as it does look quite normal graphics wise, im curious about what anti cheat they will implement, most pc gaming is riddled with cheats.

[DoctorGenesis]

So far Forbes is unimpressed. https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/05/13/there-isnt-really-much-to-say-about-the-quake-champions-beta/#3c5042ef36eb

 

"I actually sort of like the idea that Quake Champions is “optional” free-to-play, meaning you can either choose to play for free and grind for champions, or you can pay a single asking price to unlock everything. That essentially makes it the same model as Overwatch if you just pay, though I would argue that its demonic/edgy characters are far less likable than that game’s, meaning you may be less motivated to buy skins that almost always just make them even more demonic and edgy."

 

Since when were Quake characters demonic or edgy? Quake 1 and 3 do have some rather gothic landscapes but the characters are like Space Marines and skeletons... I honestly like Q3A's roster much better than Overwatch's wannabe anime characters.

 

[MrGlide]

That Article was ass, a lot of ignorant Statements and misinformation. I Agree it will be a niche Title though, and id knows that to.

[Arctangent]

... I really have no idea how you don't see skeletons as either demonic or edgy when they're played entirely seriously.

 

Space marines played seriously tend to be pretty edgy as well. And sometimes demonic.

[DoctorGenesis]

I thought Bones was a more tongue-in-cheek sort of character, I mean the manual even points out it makes no sense a skeleton can be gibbed.

[Lvangundy]

I've been playing since Beta 1 (can I say that? hah). It's fun, but I don't think it will revive FPS DM. I don't know why I think that.

 

I watch Fatal1ty's stream here and there and he seems even a little disenchanted with it. He doesn't want to compete in DM as he's retired and only wants to casually play TDM.

 

There are some neat applications to the character differences but that always creates tiers. Top characters this week seem to be Nyx, Anarki, Ranger and Scalebearer/Sorlag. 

 

Pros are going to dominate and new players will be scared off. 

 

Another issue is that there are multiple aimbot cheats out already and that will be a problem at least for now.

 

I have a K/D ratio of 0.6 t 0.7 so I'm not very good. It's frustrating, but I keep popping in here and there to play. It's no fun when you go against top players who win with scores like 60 to 8 in TDM.  

 

News on the street is that there will be a new character with a grenade like attack but the game will not get a grenade launcher any time soon.

[MrGlide]

Sorlag is a beast right now, I really like her. Anarki's hit boxes are so skinny it's insaine. Do you think the game will release with the grenade launcher? Is there any news of anticheat once the game will be released? I'v noticed most the aimbots come out late late at night in the US, and they don't have particularlly good ping. When you log on it says selecting region, does the game try to segregate us by region? Because if so then these players are already logging on via vpn (I'm guessing).

[DoctorGenesis]

23 minutes ago, MrGlide said:

Sorlag is a beast right now, I really like her.

 

[Lvangundy]

As I mentioned (which was straight from a dev who chimed in on a popular YT stream) there will be no grenade launcher, but there will be a character who has a special ability with a grenade launcher type effect. *edit, oh I see, you meant after release, sorry don't know for sure, but that's the latest I heard. Their reasoning is that they don't want a spammy attack style that doesn't require skill*

 

Also, this is worth watching for anyone curious (just skip first 10 mins as there's a echo that they eventually fix). It's a video of a dev and Willits playing. Talks baout strategy and play etc. 

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/144807974

 

Edit 2- they are bringing back a classic Q3 DM map very soon, and duel mode specific small maps. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Lvangundy

[Dragonfly]

5 hours ago, Lvangundy said:

they don't want a spammy attack style that doesn't require skill

Grenades were kinda hard to use effectively on Q3A, so while spammy I'd argue there's definitely skill required.

[Flesh420]

On 5/20/2017 at 5:38 PM, Jim Greezy said:

IMO the game looks great, not sure why it wont be coming to consoles, as it does look quite normal graphics wise, im curious about what anti cheat they will implement, most pc gaming is riddled with cheats.

Controllers are too slow for the type of aiming required, and the game can be up to 120 hertz.

 

 

 

Forbes review games? /fail

[notjimmyboigreez]

2 hours ago, Flesh420 said:

Controllers are too slow for the type of aiming required, and the game can be up to 120 hertz.

 

 

 

Forbes review games? /fail

Still that doesn't make sense as to why it's not on console,  doom moves and feels silky smooth and the controls are fine. Same as R6 it's highly competitive on x1 and PC and also overwatch? 

[DooM_RO]

19 minutes ago, Jim Greezy said:

Still that doesn't make sense as to why it's not on console,  doom moves and feels silky smooth and the controls are fine. Same as R6 it's highly competitive on x1 and PC and also overwatch? 

 

Rocket Jump.

 

120 Hz.

[Dragonfly]

I honestly find it amazing that people WANT to play games like this with a controller. It just isn't practical in the slightest.

[MrGlide]

The most enjoyable part of quake is when you get good at things like movement, good flick shots like rocket jumping requires. You simply Can not perform these regularly with analoge. I used to be insainely good with controllers, especially when I played halo, I've gotten to play with pros and in h3 I use to sell lv50 accounts. The Controllers just can't. Try strafe jumping in rage accuratly with a controller and tell me how that goes.

 

So, When we take away the funnest parts of the game because of input limitations, there is no reason to port. It's would just crash and burn. Not only would it be a waist of money to develop Quake for the consoles, but could end up being counter productive as it might leave a bad taste in console players mouths.

[SyntherAugustus]

2 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

I honestly find it amazing that people WANT to play games like this with a controller. It just isn't practical in the slightest.

I would honestly enjoy a local MP mode to have friends over and play with. Sure it wouldn't be played the way it ought to be, but I'd still have fun.

[Dragonfly]

1 hour ago, BlackFish said:

Sure it wouldn't be played the way it ought to be

And that's the problem. Every time I play FPS games on a console in the social setting like your provided example (For example, Battlefield, or god forbid Call of Duty) I get incredibly agrovated by the shoddyness of using a controller and am usually the first to stop playing, even if I am winning.

 

That's not to say controllers suck, they just suck for FPS gaming. If I were to play a platformer or a racing game, I would prefer a controller over M/KB.

 

FPS Games which are more fast pased in nature than your typical WW2 shooters definitely require the precision and speed of a mouse instead of joysticks.

[MrGlide]

I mean, the way you phrase it like that, no fps should be on console, which I disagree with, it's just Quake's Multiplayer (or any true arena shooter for that matter) Would be Ill suited to console. Since it wouldn't play to it's fullest and most enjoyable state in that ecosystem, players are more likely to find something better suited and more fun on console.

 

Of course if, or hopefully when, id releases another quake singleplayer, I would love to see that on console, as it wouldn't be solely Dependent on the MP. I really hope they're working on a new quake single player game. Comon Machine games...

[Ralphis]

On 5/21/2017 at 11:31 PM, Lvangundy said:

Pros are going to dominate and new players will be scared off. 

Quake 3/Live in a nutshell

[DoctorGenesis]

1 minute ago, Ralphis said:

Quake 3/Live in a nutshell

Live definitely, if you can't click as fast as some dude with 200 ping in some third-world country who has 1st place people get really pissy.

[snapshot]

On 22/05/2017 at 4:42 AM, MrGlide said:

Sorlag is a beast right now, I really like her.

 

[DoctorGenesis]

Why does Sorlag sound so obnoxious?

Edited May 24, 2017 by DoctorGenesis

[Arctangent]

Belatedly, on the "pros scaring off new players," I'm pretty sure that's why arena FPSs in general are on the decline and games like League and Overwatch are far more popular - the latter set don't have as much of a reward for pure mechanical skill as chaining rocket jumps or air strafing, meaning that newbies are less likely to be utterly stomped by those of high skill level, and those with lesser mechanical skill can fight and even trump those that're better through superior team play, team composition, or tactical play.

 

Anything that scares off new players too much is going to be the death of a multiplayer game. And with gaming being less niche and far more options being available, people just aren't as willing to force themselves through being completely destroyed by people who seem to be outright breaking the game with their tech level before enjoying the game.