Belatedly, on the "pros scaring off new players," I'm pretty sure that's why arena FPSs in general are on the decline and games like League and Overwatch are far more popular - the latter set don't have as much of a reward for pure mechanical skill as chaining rocket jumps or air strafing, meaning that newbies are less likely to be utterly stomped by those of high skill level, and those with lesser mechanical skill can fight and even trump those that're better through superior team play, team composition, or tactical play.

 

Anything that scares off new players too much is going to be the death of a multiplayer game. And with gaming being less niche and far more options being available, people just aren't as willing to force themselves through being completely destroyed by people who seem to be outright breaking the game with their tech level before enjoying the game.

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@DoctorGenesis, I think a skit of sorlag eating Zorax would be hilarious. As for obnoxious, All the champions are like that honestly.

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TotalBiscuit made good points, Recommended to watch if you haven't already.

 

Edited by dmg_64

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On 5/24/2017 at 2:27 PM, Arctangent said:

Belatedly, on the "pros scaring off new players," I'm pretty sure that's why arena FPSs in general are on the decline and games like League and Overwatch are far more popular - the latter set don't have as much of a reward for pure mechanical skill as chaining rocket jumps or air strafing, meaning that newbies are less likely to be utterly stomped by those of high skill level, and those with lesser mechanical skill can fight and even trump those that're better through superior team play, team composition, or tactical play.

 

Anything that scares off new players too much is going to be the death of a multiplayer game. And with gaming being less niche and far more options being available, people just aren't as willing to force themselves through being completely destroyed by people who seem to be outright breaking the game with their tech level before enjoying the game.

This translates: "No one wants to lose. People just don't want to practice and git gud at a game anymore."

 

This is why I'm glad CS:GO is still top tier for competitive gaming. (Wishing it was still Quake, mind you)  I've been a team member and a ringer to scrims, and that shit is by far waaaaaay more intense and requires so much more skill, knowledge, than the matchmaking games.  People that think they're good in public games have no idea the other level of CS, at all.  And CS:GO is probably one of the few remaining games that still require skill to win, without some crutch for noobs to compete with pros. 

 

It's like new-age gamers want participation trophies, or something.

Edited by Flesh420

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14 minutes ago, Flesh420 said:

It's like new-age gamers want participation trophies, or something.

I'm pretty sure it's not that, and that it's that gamers want a game that is supposed to be fun, to be fun from when they pick it up, to when they put it down. If players wanted to ram their head against a brick wall until it breaks they'd go play a Souls game instead, where the brick walls just keep coming, and it is very rewarding. But there is only one wall in Quake, it is not as fun to try to break, there is no real feeling of satisfaction, and most players don't want to invest that much time into a game where it is practically impossible to win.

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52 minutes ago, Flesh420 said:

It's like gamers who haven't entrenched themselves in the "git gud" mentality want games they can enjoy without 50 hours of practice and learning, or something.

 

Edited by Arctangent
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2 hours ago, RobbingSnake said:

...But there is only one wall in Quake, it is not as fun to try to break, there is no real feeling of satisfaction, and most players don't want to invest that much time into a game where it is practically impossible to win.

This is very, very true. I was a fairly avid player of Quake Live for a few years and found that by the very end, even given my two decades of FPS experience, I was almost never getting first place in Free For All and was generally no higher than somewhere in the middle in any given round. Online play with an id game is just brutal. I can play most any iwad or pwad on ultra-violence and am currently tackling nightmare on Doom '16, but online? It's so much harder.

Edited by GoatLord
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If winning is your only concern, don't play anything multiplayer related, period.

I basically grow up with quake 3 arena and quake live, and i was pretty good in retrospect, often scoring a first place on some maps.

Quake (3) live and unreal tournament have some crazy height skill floor for the online multiplayer component: bunny hopping, rocket jumping and map control in addiction to just being good at shooting. I wasn't really that good at aiming, but since i often had complete map control i could survive much longer than the average player. Honestly it isn't surprising that the more casual players won't play it.

 

@Arctangent : it seems to me you are slightly missing something here: even league of legends and overwatch have a steep leaning curve somehow, and while i can't say it for overwatch, lol have an insane amount of pre-knowledge necessary to even try to be competitive; and thank god that the match making work in that game, otherwise it would be a nightmare to play: the skill gap between a casual player (like myself, who only play with friends) and a "decent" player (not even good, mind you), is actually insane. I do believe that the problem lies on how it is perceived more than the actual difficulty (or skill gap) of the game. (and also a good matchmaking system, that would be essential to try to not "scare off" new players)

 

Returning to topic: i honestly like how this new quake is presented, and may even end up playing it if my laptop can handle it. The difference between the classes don't seem to matter too much, but add a nice spin to it. 

 

Edited by Cacowad
Didn't saved the last part.

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I think a lot of it just boils down to the fact that the arena fps has been superseded by more interesting games that have more going on. Quake, new or old, is a bit of a one-note experience today compared with other multiplayer games, and there's plenty of evidence showing that if you just put out an imitation of it, you won't garner much interest.

 

My feeling is this will also be QC's fate. There's isn't that much buzz around it at the moment, despite being essentially in an open beta. To bring back the arena fps, someone will need to re-invent the genre, applying its principles to new mechanics without feeling the need to slavishly pander to a certain fan base. QC really doesn't do this.

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6 hours ago, Cacowad said:

If winning is your only concern, don't play anything multiplayer related, period.

ah yes, Super Smash Bros and Mario Kart are terrible games for people who want to win but don't have the time to sink hundreds of hours into honing their skills

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@Game, thats exactly how I feel. I am becoming more and more interested in lawbreakers. The tried making unreal a more interesting experiance with UT3, but that didn't work out so well.

 

20 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

Super Smash Bros

SSB is such an interesting game in that concept though. Much like the board game go, it has an increadibly low skill floor yet a very very high skill ceiling.

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On 2017-5-22 at 3:53 PM, DooM_RO said:

 

Rocket Jump.

 

120 Hz.

still R6 has sight differences in its pc port, its still doable and would sell well i think = more money?

 

On 2017-5-22 at 6:41 PM, Dragonfly said:

I honestly find it amazing that people WANT to play games like this with a controller. It just isn't practical in the slightest.

i just get in from work and slump in front of my 70" 4k after a long day of sitting in front of a PC i am a PC gamer at heart but console can sometime be a welcome break

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While I understand your perspective, there's nothing relaxing about the feeling of frustration for me.

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Can't you just plug a usb keyboard and mouse into a console? Is that really so hard?

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4 hours ago, DoctorGenesis said:

Can't you just plug a usb keyboard and mouse into a console? Is that really so hard?

No. Not without buying an excessively overpriced product at least.

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Thats dumb as hell. In the overwatch community there is a big stink about that right now, and there should be. Microsoft needs to either hammer down on this stuff or (perferably) provide actual M+KB support. I'll tell you what, if Xbox had support for pc perifials It would be my MP go to, as it's fairly air tight on hacks right now (to my knowledge).

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Idk about you guys, but this game made me realize how shitty I am at FPS games. My first games were like 2 kills 25 deaths. I was never a big PvP/DM guy in Doom or Quake, but god damn I thought I'd be better than that. 

 

It was like I was firing a nerf gun while my opponents were armed with .50cals. I'd drain all of my ammo into some guy only for him to turn around and pop me in the nose with a shotgun and instagib me.

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On 5/25/2017 at 5:29 PM, RobbingSnake said:

I'm pretty sure it's not that, and that it's that gamers want a game that is supposed to be fun, to be fun from when they pick it up, to when they put it down. If players wanted to ram their head against a brick wall until it breaks they'd go play a Souls game instead, where the brick walls just keep coming, and it is very rewarding. But there is only one wall in Quake, it is not as fun to try to break, there is no real feeling of satisfaction, and most players don't want to invest that much time into a game where it is practically impossible to win.

CS:GO is populated with around 500,000+ players daily that would disagree with this.  People play games like that, and even sports, because it's satisfying to git gud at something. 

Edited by Flesh420

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I find Quake MP 10x more enjoyable and satisfying than Counterstrike.

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The kind of movement possible in this game.

 

 

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The new map feels a LOT like Quake 1. You should try it.

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So... I tried downloading the stupid closed beta with this awful Bethesda Launcher, and the thing only shows up a black screen and nothing else. Why does it even need this tiresome process to begin with? Why not just send me an e-mail and sign me up for the damn closed beta?? Am I the only one who's taking issue with this shit?

I tried re-installing the stupid Launcher, and now it just throws up an error (snapshot included).

I'm not prepared to go through a ton of hassle to play this game, but if somebody can provide me an easy fix I'm willing to give it another go.

bethesdaisstupid.jpg

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I click play, the game starts. Pretty simple. Reading your error message - "Requires Elevation" to me sounds like you need to run the program as an administrator.

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1 hour ago, Dragonfly said:

I click play, the game starts. Pretty simple. Reading your error message - "Requires Elevation" to me sounds like you need to run the program as an administrator.

You're wrong, sadly.

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Huh. I'd report the bug on the Quake Champions forum, or maybe talk on their discord server. Someone will surely have the answer for you there.

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