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CacoCaddy

E2M8 Done Passive

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Speedrunner 4shockblast has achieved a feat once thought impossible by most in the speed running community: a pacifist run of E2M8. This specific run has eluded players since pacifist runs were thought up almost 20 years ago. Watch it here, and more details can be found here.

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Also e4m6, which looks like the most promising next target, in the light of these events that have currently unfolded.

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Never even imagined this could be achieved. A truly amazing feat. Props to 4shockblast.

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Scuba Steve said:

map02

I'm wrapping my mind what's the blocker there, other than annoyingly hard to avoid sergeants.

Scuba Steve said:

map30

I wonder if you can direct cacodemon fire into Romero head's base. By attracting fire while you're in front of demon's forehead after being thrown by an archvile.

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printz said:

I wonder if you can direct cacodemon fire into Romero head's base. By attracting fire while you're in front of demon's forehead after being thrown by an archvile.

I don't think there's a single angle that will go through the tunnel without hitting the floor, then dip down deep enough into the pit to hit the boss brain's tiny-ass hitbox. Even with custom ZDoom weapons and its freelook, you either have to make use of explosive projectiles or projectiles that flat-out stick to or slide on floors.

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In related news it seems ZeroMaster set a new Doom2 UV speed record, now under 19½ minutes. Hardly anyone seems to have noticed -- I guess by today's standards a new Doom2 UV speed is practically an everyday occurrence :)

________

40oz said:

The lost soul did a worrying amount of damage to the player before the cyberdemon finished exploding. Good thing it wasn't more aggressive. That could have been the worst ending imaginable.

printz said:

I'm wrapping my mind what's the blocker there [in map02], other than annoyingly hard to avoid sergeants.


I think that's it basically. The tool assisted pacifist map02 by Sedlo is very deceptive. It doesn't look all that hard to duplicate. You "just" have to be lucky with avoiding buckshot.

Recently Memfis got through well over half the map after less than an hour, then actually won on skill 3. This led 4shockblast to propose that if the professionals were to commit to grinding out a few attempts every day, success will be inevitable.

4shockblast said:

I think after doing it with saves and seeing this attempt, I plan on setting aside a few attempts per day or maybe some longer amount of time per week or month and just testing my luck - I mean, eventually, it has to happen, right? :D Also, if others start doing the same, between a group of runners it's a lot more likely that someone manages to get to the end.

dew said:

pa02 Community Project: A Thousand Monkeys On A Thousand Keyboards

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printz said:
Scuba Steve said:

map02

I'm wrapping my mind what's the blocker there, other than annoyingly hard to avoid sergeants.

pa02 is the most agonizing target, because it seems so straightforward and reachable. Alas, it's pure pain and misery! No one has found any trace of a safe strat or a clever trick and the prevailing opinion is that someone just needs to luck it out among the sargeants and imps in the sewer. Brute force the pacifist run, heh. The other issue is that surviving the BK is so unlikely that a demo appearing out of the blue (oh god stop the puns!) would almost certainly get accused of cheating. Show us several hundred manhours of streamed pa02 attempts and we'll believe you, heh.

printz said:
Scuba Steve said:

map30

I wonder if you can direct cacodemon fire into Romero head's base. By attracting fire while you're in front of demon's forehead after being thrown by an archvile.

This one fails at the sheer technical impracticality. The only reasonably feasible way seems archvile splash, which Looper experimented with. Flying monsters don't seem to have an angle on Romero and navigating a revenant mega-rocket through the brain opening with a death slide seems impossible too. The run seems as a maybe for a TAS demo, because you can certainly manipulate the LUT table to produce enough archviles, but it's quite a challenge. A legit run seems highly unlikely.

e4m6 seemed impossibly hard, but 4shock's achievement boosts its chances slightly. The proposed route involves, you know, freezing the cyberdemon, heh.

edit: ninja'd by rjy godddamit!

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MAP30 could be done by interpreting the rules for Pacifist more creatively (or just more literally?). The player is not allowed to hurt monsters. Romero's head is present with -nomonsters. Therefore, it is not a monster, and the player is allowed to damage it. Why would it count as a monster, anyway? It's clearly just a piece of decoration, much like a barrel.

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It may not technically be a monster, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree that launching several explosive missiles into a giant goat's brain, when doing so causes said giant goat to scream in pain each time, would be a pacifistic action.

Not to mention, if you call it like that, then there's not really much of a difference between a pacifist run and a normal run that doesn't bother wasting time doing anything but going straight for the objective.

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Of course, but on the off chance that both E4M6 and MAP02 get done, the speed demos community should just claim MAP30 this way as a reward and call both games done ;-)

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I think we're finding out who the real monster is, Fredrik.

Your definition would have an interesting consequence though. The pacifist rules specifically forbid indirect damage via player-triggered explosions, so the lone revenant would have to get killed by infighting before the spitter explodes. And you can't have any flying monsters near the Icon platform either!

Btw, we already have some examples of killing Romero's head in pacifist runs. And a lost soul is the MVP in both of them, heh.

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Truly an outstanding performance, gotta say that's quite an ingenious way on using the level geometry coupled with the monster AI patterns.

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I recall there was an (unofficial?) Tyson Nightmare run of E2M8, done in slightly less than 6 minutes, at that. That one exploited the Lost Souls' faster attacks and no recovery time in NM to continuously deal damage to the Cyberdemon while it was busy fighting the player, but that one also required active dodging/tysoning. I wonder if it could be done in Pacifist style, but I suspect the Cyberdemon would sooner or later turn to the Lost Souls, while in Tyson this didn't happen thanks to the player's constant attacks.

 

Edit: NM, it was actually an UV-fast run.

 

 

The player does punch the Cyberdemon on several occasions, and must keep doing so regularly to avoid or at least delay the Lost Souls being wiped out, but I wonder if it would be possible (maybe through sheer luck/perfect timing?) to do a more active pacifist run in this style.

Edited by Maes

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On 12/3/2017 at 8:18 PM, Scuba Steve said:

e2m8
map02
map30

I've read somewhere in the doom wiki that you can actually archvile jump INTO the boss brain,face to face with Oremor Nhoj.

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The window into the brain is 32 units tall and the player is 56 units tall. Therefore, it's not possible to jump into the brain, unless the player crouches, which is only possible in some advanced ports. So you must have read it on doom wikia rather than on doomwiki, because doomwiki always assumes vanilla behavior, while wikia sometimes mixes in port-specific or mod-specific behaviors. Don't read wikia.

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Just to add my 2 cents: I been thinking about ways to do Map30. But there always seems to be a counter-problem.

 

The overall verdict is, I guess.. Not possible?

 

 

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The path to a pacifist Map30 is to get the spawner to spawn a bunch of archviles, have some of them blast you towards the hole, killing you in the process so you fit in, and then have the remaining archviles finish their attacks and blast you while you are inside the hole and in range of the Romero head. It is at least theoretically possible if probably not practically so. 

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On 2/3/2018 at 12:58 PM, scifista42 said:

The window into the brain is 32 units tall and the player is 56 units tall. Therefore, it's not possible to jump into the brain, unless the player crouches, which is only possible in some advanced ports. So you must have read it on doom wikia rather than on doomwiki, because doomwiki always assumes vanilla behavior, while wikia sometimes mixes in port-specific or mod-specific behaviors. Don't read wikia.

It took some time,but I found out it was doomwiki.

So,it may be possibile.

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On 3/8/2018 at 1:55 AM, Linguica said:

It is at least theoretically possible if probably not practically so. 

 

Does the geometry of the Romero niche even allow the archviles to keep LOS with you and complete their attacks, once they managed to squeeze you in? I guess if you're on the very edge and don't slide in it might work, but then I don't know if the splash damage would propagate.

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