Phase 2, Maps 21-30 development thread

31 minutes ago, Voros said:

The vanilla lump limit is what Im worried about.

 

An important concern, for sure. However, if we're at a stage where every necessary sound and graphic and map-related lump (plus others, PLAYPAL and such) are accounted for then surely the vanilla lump limit is also FreeDoom's upper limit?

 

I am, however, against merely throwing things in willy-nilly. 15 textures ain't much, so if they'll add to the project as a whole then why not?

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1 hour ago, Voros said:

The vanilla lump limit is what Im worried about.

Do you have a link to a description of that limit?

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The lump limit is set around 4000 (4066 or 4096, not sure which one) lumps. Phase 2 has about 3000 and Phase 1 lower than that. So at best, about 900-1000 lumps available to use. That doesnt mean it should be filled up to the max.

 

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1 minute ago, Voros said:

That doesnt mean it should be filled up to the max.

 

Nope, but it's an upper limit should it be needed. Condom logic; better to have and not need, than need and not have -- so I guess sparingly add new lumps from here on? Coming back to those 15 or so textures Blastfrog wants, it seems just a drop in the ocean.

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3 minutes ago, Voros said:

The lump limit is set around 4000 (4066 or 4096, not sure which one) lumps. Phase 2 has about 3000 and Phase 1 lower than that. So at best, about 900-1000 lumps available to use. That doesnt mean it should be filled up to the max.

 

Thanks to both of you.

 

If I understand that correctly, there is still room for more textures, patches and flats and if we're running out, we could just remove some unused aquatex textures/patches/flats.

 

That doesn't sound like a huge problem or am I missing something?

 

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If those 15 textures are barely used, then I believe they shouldn't be added. But if they are reasonable assets that can be used outside Soda's cluster of maps, it won't be problem.

 

Lets wait and see.

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I'd say if those 15 textures make the maps better, they should be added.

If the lump limit gets too high so that action is needed - then it is time to cull unused textures - not now!

 

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On 16.03.2017 at 3:36 PM, Jaws In Space said:

Map 30 - Oh great now I'm responsible for an Icon of Sin map :P The plan here is to have a normal playing area that you have to get through before reaching the Icon arena, because who wants to get to map 30 & just face an Icon of Sin that's so boring.

I'm currently making a new MAP30 replacement.

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The first trilobite / cacodemon of MAP22 (not present in the original FBase 6: Remanasu, by the way) should be removed entirely. When one is unarmored and without powerful weapons and ammo, it’s very annoying having to deal with a relatively tough monster plus lots of sniper monsters plus scarce ammo and health. In fact, every reviewer complained about lack of ammo.

 

 

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More progress on MAP30:
 

Spoiler

 

g5ene64.png

YOJxyAW.png

LIuinm8.png

 

The starting area is done, now working on the IoS area.

Edited by Gothic

Posted (edited)

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Dude, break up the ceiling/fake black sky heights somehow. Please.

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I just realized that map28 is a Zok map. While I can understand that this map is a bit vague with its switch hunts (call it what you will), converting to vanilla may not be successful in terms of keeping the original design intact (map12 seems to suffer from this), the map itself actually has some cool parts, such as that big arena with huge portals surrounding it. 

 

If @riderr3 is going for a map28, it would be neat if parts of the current map28 went in it, even if it's visually changed. That arena part is quite memorable and would make a great ending for map28, wouldn't it?

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4 hours ago, Voros said:

If @riderr3 is going for a map28, it would be neat if parts of the current map28 went in it, even if it's visually changed. That arena part is quite memorable and would make a great ending for map28, wouldn't it?


Agreed with this. It is most interesting part of the map. But those drawsegs...
I remember when I using wall barriers in Urania to prevent static limits errors.
The overall map design of current MAP28 is looks pretty linear. Also I can not say about many switches in this map, it's even predictable because of map linearity.
Crusher area may be annoying because it's slow crusher.
Difficulty can be increased slightly.

Edited by riderr3

Posted (edited)

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A main problem with MAP28 is the doors from the start area. Opening doors in vanilla can vastly boost visplanes. Teleports might be best actually. Will make exit and first area harder, while second and third area almost identical in gameplay. 

 

Would need to crop out the player spawn area, then inside each door create teleport rooms. The 3rd area already has a nice small room. Could copy and paste that room to maintain style, then modify it a bit so each area has a unique  teleport room. 

 

Without teleports would need to drastically remove details in rooms that are vanilla as long as the door stays closed. 

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Savegame limit should be ignored and is no reason to remove an area. That series of hallways/doors area was vanilla, or easily converted. Many maps will crash the save buffer, there is no reason to map around this limit. I am also 100% sure the save buffer can still be made to crash,  even with sections removed.

 

Rest of  map is great!

Edited by Catoptromancy

Posted (edited)

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Yeah, I totally forgot about choco feature of extended savedata.
Will add those sections back.

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We are more technically Chocolate-doom compatible. Iwad names are too long for DOS and there is an embedded dehacked  file.

 

Many classic vanilla megawads have maps that break savegame buffer, some final doom maps too. 

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This is the first time I see MAP28 running in Gameception. The original MAP28 of Phase 2 crashes it due to exhausted memory.

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3 hours ago, Catoptromancy said:

We are more technically Chocolate-doom compatible. Iwad names are too long for DOS and there is an embedded dehacked  file.

 

Many classic vanilla megawads have maps that break savegame buffer, some final doom maps too. 


MAP28 with returned sections, close to original
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pesjv71ai332588/MAP28fd2_v2.wad
 

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22 hours ago, Catoptromancy said:

@riderr3 is your name in credits yet?


Don't know, probably not. Need to be added.

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The new blood pond added at (-135, -2105) should be impassable, for consistency reasons (others blood ponds with hanging torsos are impassable).

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Hey guys, I've been pretty quiet here due to Revilution stuff, but I have been keeping an eye on things & working to update the maps. I'll be giving this much more attention once May rolls around.

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I wish I never discovered the savegame limit. Its actually mentioned on the doomwiki for some reason. Which causes even further confusion since doom2.wad  MAP30 can crash the save buffer and both final doom iwads. 

 

Calling Freedoom's compat level "vanilla-compatible, except for possible savegame buffer overflows of certain levels" means it is as vanilla as 3 out of 4 definitive iwads, just with a much longer and confusing description. 

 

The wiki should have this wildly confusing information removed.

Edited by Catoptromancy

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Why remove it? It is a limit of the original vanilla engine.

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