What are some multiplayer project you want to see?

This may seem a bit like stating the obvious, but making anything for multiplayer is always quite a bit riskier. You can whip up a handful single player maps and have only a handful of people player 'em, and that's not really much of a problem - you still get the feeling of accomplishment from people enjoying what you made. With multiplayer maps or mods or whatever, however, those handful of players won't be able to get much enjoyment out of them, not unless they all do so at the same time, together.

 

And, preferably, several times later, with other people, since multiplayer stuff is rarely an one-and-done deal.

 

So it's not really that feasible to make something that you'll just toss out into the open without knowing if anyone would be interested. If it's just a regular deathmatch or duel map, you might get Doomkid drumming up some interest, but anything less basic is a crapshoot. So, that's where this question comes in.

 

Is there anything you've never seen before for multiplayer Doom, or something you have but know could be done so much better? Maybe even something you aren't certain can be done in the Doom engine, but would be thrilled to see someone whip up?

 

It's quite the massive undertaking to make multiplayer content, but I feel like anyone who sees an idea they've been wanting to make get a lot of interest her would be a lot more confident in taking that on. Especially moreso now that this place has a like system, so people who otherwise would show their support but don't really feel like they have much to add can still do so. So, I'd appreciate it if you share any concepts you'd be interested in playing, because that might just be what's needed to make that a reality.

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oh boy the thread for me

if anyone thinks doom multiplayer has nothing left to offer, zdoom modding wants to talk to you:

 

mods someone needs to make aka unused potential:

control points <-- finish?

rust's control points medieval roleplay <-- let me play jesus

airplane/spaceship/tanks/vehicles combat mods

all out war 2 but not shit

new palettes but for dm (ancient aliens dm)

mappacks with their own weapon mods that arent just like the doom/quake weapons

sniper warfare

^ ww2 mod like day of defeat

rainbow six something (tacticool)!

napolean warfare!!!

a REAL rts wad for once (like lilwhitemouse's mech thing)

someone combine levelmaster and master of puppets v0.5

zdoomwars where u can play as the monsters

plenty more dm filler map packs!!! (quality > quantity) less boom overmade shovelware and more unique things plz

^ oblige but for dm filler maps?

nostalgia mods like vanilla and skulltag but improving stupid faults instead of repeating them

some island survival mod kind of like survivalism but less uh... experimental...

board games in acs (tetriacs expansion)

more things with zandronum's database once its done getting exploited lol

a good 4way ctf mappack

 

mods someone needs to make for me so i dont have to:

all out war 2 but not shit

roleplay mods

cars vroom twisted metal

enhanced medieval melee combat with acs

cybercrime 4

cyberrunner maps

catch the chicken

 

oh and someone make a dm mapping tutorial for me. there hasnt been a tutorial since like skulltag lol

Edited by Combinebobnt
more wads for the wads god

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I still want to see an implementation of a king of the hill mode similar to perfect dark's style - X time required for getting a point, 1 point per team mate within the control sector, after point(s) gained, the hill moves to another location. I actually had an implementation several years ago coded by Dusk and blzut3 but it was buggy and had some issues; thus didn't pan out. I'd still like to see this done though.

 

I'd also love to see a real new CTF pack making use of 3d floors and such. unfortunately making a ctf pack these days is a huge waste of time (let alone one that isn't multi-port)

 

There are a lot of problems with multiplayer mapping though.

1 problem is that a lot of multiplayer maps are not good. They are half-assed, not tested, unbalanced, broken, or the same thing we've seen since 1995, thus boring.

 

A huge problem is that good maps take effort, and there are not many people left willing to put in a lot of effort. Large scale projects by 1 person usually sees burn-out or repetitive style maps.

 

Another problem is that the player base is horrid. They do one of 2 things. 1) Go where the players are, no matter the quality of the mods/maps in question (which in turn makes you rely on players to get games started in the first place) or 2) say it's shit because they haven't played it 1000 times before because they are mostly unwilling to learn (unless 1 applies)

 

Finding your audience is hard as well. A large majority of multiplayer players do not view the forums (anywhere) so really you're on your own until you start hosting and hoping people join to help you.

 

Last problem i'll mention is balancing expectations vs your vision. unless you very obviously make something radically different, it's always going to be compared to "doom" so you really need to figure out how to balance core mechanics with the vision you have while also keeping in mind the average player.

@Combinebobnt don't worry son, i'll write one up for you. the master of seven-sided squares will show you how it's done

 

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control points <-- finish?

 

This is still something I really want to see. It'd be nice to have another Teamgame that isnt an unfinished\abandoned CTF mod like ATF or Overload

 

also catch the chicken (99.999969% done bob pls finish)

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decay tutorial: oh my... hope it can match up to deathzor's

 

oh here is an important sequel to my post:

things you SHOULDNT waste your time with and nobody wants to see anyway:

duel maps <-- gamemode is dying

ctf maps if they don't get into the wdl (/ gfa?)

ANOTHER gvh ripoff

combo of boom format + low-effort + filler. all 3 combined equals disaster and 0 players.

doom1 or heretic anything <-- snore

(g)zdoom only dm rofl

maps only playable on high end computers

skulltag 98d

doom legacy

scoredoom

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Ah the tired old 'duel is dead' argument, been hearing that one for like 12 years now lol

 

Doom Legacy is badass for splitscreen and besides, Legacy maps also work perfectly in Zandronum, so why not?

 

That stuff aside, I agree. Also, good thread topic overall.

 

edit: Oh and to be fair to deathz0r that tutorial is like a billion years old

Edited by Doomkid

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I don't think duel is dead, but making an -accepted- map is difficult. Duel is probably the hardest mode to break into because it's so rigid that unless you're doing something really different that isn't encroaching on traditional grounds (like prog duel) , you probably aren't getting anywhere.

 

Also, hexecution finish? Need more mappers...

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52 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Ah the tired old 'duel is dead' argument, been hearing that one for like 12 years now lol

 

Doom Legacy is badass for splitscreen and besides, Legacy maps also work perfectly in Zandronum, so why not?

 

duel isn't dead, but it certainly isn't what it was throughout the 12 years ago. the amount of playtime it gets on zandronum has been certainly lower. nobody can ever compete against judas23 and dwango and whatever; it will stagnate on that mapset forever. even if u make some new cool duel wad, the fact that games are difficult to come by at all prompts a question of mapping effort vs payoff. hence, don't waste your time and make dm maps instead! they work in duel too!!!  I have 1 possible messiah for duel and that is if someone pulls off something on the level as Watermelon's priv ctf stats/elo. not many cared about duel elo though, so it can't be that

 

doom legacy has features like its little mapping additions and fragglescript idk that might not be forward compatible (someone get a top scientist on this one). it's better to make a boom mappack anyway. mainly posted that because there are some ...weird... people who haven't realized the port isn't quite as popular as it once was...

 

17 minutes ago, Fonze said:

I'd love to see a decent set of Heretic DM maps one day...

but you won't because heretic dm is boring as hell. definitely needs a weapon mod or more, but that usually means it isn't even heretic anymore. Also only like ~150 stock textures to use lol. even on zdaemon they have to play on tiny cramped ass maps because all the weapons have slow projectiles. Dragon claw and pheonix rod become the most fearsome. too bad doom2 plays way better. I've played a few heretic pvp packs and it's nothing to write home about. Silverspring ctf with rust's lethal heretic was probably the best thing I've played. But why make a heretic pack when you can just make it for doom2 with new textures? The further the iwad gets from doom2 on zandronum, the more things don't work too (poor strife)!

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I would dig it if someone made a Doom2 DM wad with lots of Heretic textures/theming and certain Heretic weapons modded in. That way you still have the fun of Doom2 DM but with a Heretic twist.

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I think hosting Heretic DM with that lethal heretic patch would be a good (late) start for heretic, IDK if it works outside of Zan tho maybe whatever the heretic equivalent of DEH can do it???

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47 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I would dig it if someone made a Doom2 DM wad with ... and certain Heretic weapons modded in.

Like, with permanently empowered weapons? Most of the unpowered arsenal really isn't distinguishable enough from Doom 2's, I'd say, nor would they really add anything to it.

 

Hellstaff and Dragon Claw could act as interesting variants for area control if powered, though, and the powered Phoenix Rod would just be fun to use as an alternative to the SSG.

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I want to see:

-A DM Server with a Weapon mod that replaces only the weapons and items with something similar, re balanced, or refreshing (Like Smoother Sprite Animations), and not such a slow gun switch time

-Colorfulhell finally getting compatibility with Zandronum For Co-op and ESPECIALLY invasion maps. Sure we may have Complex Doom, but Colorful hell has that more of that Vanilla Charm while adding new, balanced (Compared to complex doom in this case) Elements of game play with Enemy encounters.

-A REMASTERED STRONGHOLD: EDGE OF CHAOS

that'd feature smoother weapon anims (Like at least a few extra frames per gun), Weapon Crafting and upgrading system similar to Doom RLA's, 3 or so Classes that would add a lot of flavor into each game played. (3 in my Mind are Technician, Support, and Assault)

(Sub Thready thingy for this idea):

Inventory Limit so you just cant go around carrying 20 different weapons at once

I mean it'd add more to being Conservitive about your ammo, type of weapons you should keep or hold. First off the weapons would need re balancing before this, So maybe that Stunner Rifle could get a Lethal Taser Firemode that would knock imps and humans unconscious, that'd be pretty cool huh? Maybe only have 4-6 weapons (DRLA Does this Perfectly, so we'll see, hell even add more unique style weapons while were at it)

   -Technician would be able to set up Multiple types of Turrets instead of just a Drone, such as Rocket, Anti Air, HMG, Flamethrower, etc (And actually have Tripods to). He also has Revenant Style Shoulder Cannons that he can fire anytime with any weapon, however depleting which ever type of ammunition his shoulder cannons would use greatly (Like if he had Auto Shotty Shoulder cannons or dare I say Railgun Shoulder cannons). He'd be able to also set up Mini Computers that get a list of 4 different items you could only buy from the Store in the Hub part. SO players would be able to grab what they were missing.

LIVES IN MULTIPLAYER MUST BE PRICIER 

Support would be able to hold more ammo and provide boxes of ammo and health as well. Like he'd drop it, a player would press Use and bam, the contents would spill out. This mod should have a way of being able to manually pick up things instead of getting them automatically. Players Could buy Lives from him or He could Donate as long as the player payed him back in the hub. He could maybe hold an Extra gun or two hmm?? :))

The Assault Class would be quite the cool guy here, his weapons would get a damage bonus off the start (Depending on damage and fire rate), He'd also maybe have bonus stats for armor or maybe just even Hold more Armor points. At this point I cant think what else we could do to the Assault Class, we just got to make him unique from the rest (Maybe add more to the Support guy to, because the technician has a lot in his favor as of right now)

Cooler, add a more diverse set of enemies to the already added ones, give them ranks and tiers. IT WILL ALSO BE COMPATIBLE WITH ANY MEGAWAD

 

Another Big Idea you may ask? I wont explain this one much, but:

 

Imagine, your playing on Map16 of the Doom 64 maps, in Survival Cooperative, The eerie music plays as you and your team debate over what to carry and what to have ready. every item is randomized completely so that you will never expect just a certain tier of weapons from a spawner. Imagine like Left 4 Dead for example, but not like all the way left 4 dead, just some elements that gave a survival feel. A 2 weapon limit, completely balanced guns so that a BFG wouldn't be considered a necessity or "Item of choice". You could find a wide variety of weapons that each have Pro's and cons, theres no classes, no bunches of OP enemies, being forced to manually heal your helf or armour points instead of getting them automatically, or better yet, Have DRLA's Armour system.. Imagine running around with a Zombieman Rifle with a Double Bladed chainsaw. Your rifle is particularly low on ammo, and you havnt found gas for that sweet ol chainsaw either.. Myabe switch for a Glock? Theres more ammo youve seen and such. An inventory system would be great here to with different types of equipable back packs, all weapons would need to be reloaded to. Idk, I thought itd be cool because it could also go with Colorful Hell Very well.

 

Another Idea?

Quake 3 style Weapons in DM Maps? Not like exact but like Having a different purpose for every weapons and every weapon using different types of ammo to with their own true unique stats. Ok I gotta go to bed now dude, I cant stay up longer yelling about these ideas

 

Wait: Knee Deep in ZDoom Deathmatch server.

For the love of god do this, it sounds dumb but I Played around for a bit and it was actually pretty cool. ALl the weapons are nice and change stuff p around, plus the cool added effects n such

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40 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

Like, with permanently empowered weapons? Most of the unpowered arsenal really isn't distinguishable enough from Doom 2's, I'd say, nor would they really add anything to it.

 

Hellstaff and Dragon Claw could act as interesting variants for area control if powered, though, and the powered Phoenix Rod would just be fun to use as an alternative to the SSG.

I think adding the crossbow and firemace to Doom DM would be cool, there's really nothing that behaves like them in Doom.

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I want to see something like Invasion UAC but even more ambitious and grand, with many various atmospheric settings, cool setups like that BFG shooting machine, maybe a bit more consistent in quality, without cramped parts, etc... The successful recipe was already invented a long time ago, now someone just needs to bring that stuff up to the modern standards and you will get an incredible multiplayer experience.

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Most of the above is right. As I understand it, playing a single player map gets tired after the first playthrough, which makes the demand for single player maps so high. People play and replay multiplayer maps over and over and over and can be hesitant of change.

 

I spoke to HumanBones and Ralphis on WXR a few weeks ago. I dont want to speak for them but as I understand it, they said they're always down for new CTF maps. There's a lot of dinosaurs in the WDL mappack and they're looking for replacements to keep WDL in a constantly changing fashion so people dont get fixated on analyzing specific maps.

 

I think there's something to be said about the simplicity of most of the favored multiplayer maps. (for standard mp modes like deathmatch, duel, and CTF) I think if you spend less time thinking about it and just making a big open battleground that's easy to understand and hard to master after a few minutes of play makes for the best maps.

 

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Lotta misplaced hate towards Heretic's DM capabilities... but it's not the game that should be hated on; it's the maps we currently have available, all of which look like the 90s and play like they were never tested.

 

Take any rocket-strong Doom DM map, add items, and it'll make a fun DM map for Heretic. On that same note though, the DC is far too useful in sniping scenarios, so a Heretic DM map would necessarily have to lack large, open, football-field areas.

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@40oz

 

The problem is most players (especially competitive ones) don't hold that view (unless they made it, of course). The problem with new maps in the WDL/IDL/GFA compilations is that for most new maps it's a revolving door; very few ever get longevity or are frequently picked in priv. There's something a little fucky when players groan and cry about maps such as map31 etc being flat, boring SSG grinds but will pick it every fucking time. New maps get shit on (more or less depending on who made it, as if that actually matters) and it's back to the same 4-5 maps they've been playing for 10 years. I mean sure, kudos to trying to replace old maps but that speculation has been going on as long since at least 2010 and hardly anything substantial has changed in that time.

 

Personally, I'm in a bit of agreement but also disagreement about looking at the favoured maps as some sort of basis to build on. Reason being is that a lot of favoured DM/CTF/Duel maps are SSG boring bashfests, dull and dreary, nothing exciting and nothing dynamic. A lot of players just want to spam BFG or point and click with the SSG. Replicating popular maps is boring on principle and also a little lame. But on the other hand, in my own mapping philosophy I try to figure out what specific elements make a map enjoyable (timing between flags, prevalance of corridor encounters, flexibility in routes) and then try to add my own flair to it. What constitutes good = longevity as well; saying a map is good for a few playthroughs isn't really saying much; if consistent played and months later people are still saying it's good, it's good :)

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3 hours ago, Fonze said:

Lotta misplaced hate towards Heretic's DM capabilities... but it's not the game that should be hated on; it's the maps we currently have available, all of which look like the 90s and play like they were never tested.

 

Take any rocket-strong Doom DM map, add items, and it'll make a fun DM map for Heretic. On that same note though, the DC is far too useful in sniping scenarios, so a Heretic DM map would necessarily have to lack large, open, football-field areas.

kHfVCo4.png

Cb8YiJg.png

trust me, the maps aren't the problem

 

i played dwango5 and some doom map remade in heretic. safe to say it played even worse than dwango5

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Well, I appreciate you taking a screenie of one of my maps for your point ;D I don't believe I've played that first screenshotted map though, nor do I recognize it. But I'll go off on a limb to say that the Dragon Claw would own that screenshotted area hands down, which again points to the map being the problem.

 

Note that I didn't say "any Doom DM map" though, I said "any rocket-strong Doom DM map." There is no Heretic equivalent to the SSG, which dominates the play of most Doom DM maps, nor is there a BFG-equivalent (the closest thing perhaps being either the tomed DC's spikey balls or tomed mace's homing death ball). Maps must be structured differently to protect and enhance the usefulness of proj weapons over hitscans; there's a lot of depth and strategy to Heretic's play but the maps can't be approached 1:1 as regular Doom maps. For Doom, you die, respawn instantly, find an SSG asap and one well-aimed click later your fragging again. The time between death and frag is potentially very short. Heretic has a rougher time on that front so the map's design and thing placement must be more thought out to get players geared up and back into the fray faster. Likely would need smaller maps/better viewpoints so players run less risk of running around looking for people after respawning, given that fights will last longer than a potential instant like they would in Doom's DM. Rocket-strong maps, like d5m2, are already built for projectile-based combat, which would be a good starting point. Also plasma-strong maps, like brexec map16. Adding (certain) items would enhance the experience.

 

Perhaps the biggest problem, though, is that there isn't enough want for it within the MP community to get even a small group of people together to work on it and actually DM semi-regularly on (read: test) the maps. Just as somebody wouldn't be likely to make a good Doom DM map without both testing it with other players and extensive knowledge about Doom's DM in the first place, they won't stand a chance making a good Heretic DM set without both crucial pieces to the puzzle. Somehow, I doubt there was much of a call for Heretic DM maps when the other existing DM maps were made, too, which I believe shows through during the rare HereDMs I've attended; noting how terribly they play. Perhaps another problem is using the crossbow as a typical starting weapon or mixing too many weapons into one map. Maybe it's all too much to be crammed into a small DM map, maybe the weapons are imbalanced; Idk. Or maybe we just tend to approach the design in the wrong way. More things going on means more things to go wrong. It's like Doom, but it's not Doom; it needs to be treated differently. A completed, tested, and fun-to-play Heretic DM set likely won't pop up any time soon, but if a few of us work together on it we could likely see a fun, quality product at some point in the distant future, which would make those occasional HereDMs much more fun and engaging.

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I want to see some more cooperative-oriented maps/mapsets that take the concept behind maps like the ones in Memento Mori (especially MAP09 and MAP31) and make them better. I like the concept of having the players separated yet still working together to get through the map, or even just areas that are only accessible in multiplayer. Even just starting at a completely separate location and having to fight through hellspawn to meet at a nexus point would make things much more interesting for multiplayer.

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