90s FPS with elements that outdid Doom

[Koko Ricky]

Freeform discussion on any element from shooters of that era that outdid our beloved Doom.

 

Rise of the Triad used an updated Wolf 3-D engine but had tons of technical shit that was pretty cool, like moving geometry, transparent doors, mouselook, bridge-like room-over-room effects, some really nice gib effects and some impressive fogging. Level design wasn't all that impressive considering the engine.

 

Blood in some ways outdid Doom's atmosphere, if the horror vibe is your thing. There's a very high level of competence and detail in the art style that sometimes looks better than Doom. The combat feels superior at times and this is related to the incredible sound design and animation of the characters, because the feedback they provide when hit and killed is really satisfying, and a super important aspect of gameplay.

 

I'll post more later. Thougts?

[FreightMan07]

Personally, I always did like Faceball 2000 for the SNES which came out in the 90's.

 

A little known FPS "spoof" type jaunt, the game itself wasn't anywhere NEAR the technical level of a game like Doom (or even Wolfenstein), mostly due to the cramped viewing window and complete lack of a strafe button, but it was damned fun.

 

The very idea of different shaped and colored "smileys" having different abilities and you basically had to solve how to approach and defeat each one, while figuring out the way out of the maze you were currently in was just epic.

 

Since Faceball 2000 really couldn't touch Doom in terms of graphics and playability, I would still say that in terms of concept and fun, this was quite the game.

And yea, I AM AWARE that the Faceball thing was done before on primitive computers (they called it Midi Maze I believe), but if few people knew about the Snes' Faceball, even FEWER were likely aware of the Midi Maze game....I certainly wasn't at first.

 

Anyways, yea, Faceball 2000.

Ahead of its time with a theme and concept that would be over the top if one of you fine modding geniuses ever decide to do a Doom TC and remake this on a sourceport!

 

You'd have me as a fan at the very first "Have a nice day!"

 

 

 

[Gifty]

Blood definitely nailed the balancing of its armory; each gun did its own thing and none of them became obsolete by the endgame. Doom's weapon balance is a lot more arcadey and crude in comparison.

[StalkerZHS]

1 minute ago, Gifty said:

Blood definitely nailed the balancing of its armory; each gun did its own thing and none of them became obsolete by the endgame.

Quake also did that, except for the ssg/sng

[Deleted_Account]

Duke Nukem 3d with it's interactive environments.

[riderr3]

I can mention Zero Tolerance for Genesis/Megadrive. (one of my favourite shooters)
It have:

-Flamethrower
-Breakable windows
-Fog
-Fire extinguisher
-Mines
-Blood splats on walls
-Some other stuff I forgot...

And that's all in 1994!
 

[Mordeth]

3 hours ago, GoatLord said:

Blood in some ways outdid Doom's atmosphere, if the horror vibe is your thing. There's a very high level of competence and detail in the art style that sometimes looks better than Doom. The combat feels superior at times and this is related to the incredible sound design and animation of the characters, because the feedback they provide when hit and killed is really satisfying, and a super important aspect of gameplay.

 

Out of the box, Blood is imho the best game released for that era. Theming, balance, sound, sprite and level design is absolutely superb.

[Reiken]

Cyberdillo for its sloped floors and vibrant texturing second only to those of Marathon 2's for route obfuscation.
PO'ed for its 3d level geometry and hand that wipes away accumulated blood on the hud when using the power drill.

On a serious note, the Build games really take the cake (as previously noted multiple times). Even Redneck Rampage
has a certain charm with its dusky atmosphere. That crazy, hacky engine just excelled at giving a sense of place. The
ability to slap sprites onto geometry gave a kind of 'megatexturing' capability that doom ports still lack, as far as I'm aware.
In hindsight, that might have been a neat thing to bolt onto UDMF...

[Da Werecat]

Marathon had very Doom-like restrictions, but it allowed for room-over-room non-Euclidean architecture due to its inner workings. 

 

For a long time I could't figure out why some of the rooms look so convincing in that engine. Now I think it's because it allows for every surface to have its own light value, animated or not (at least in the sequel).

 

19 hours ago, GoatLord said:

There's a very high level of competence and detail in the art style that sometimes looks better than Doom.

Funny, I always thought that Blood's art looks like it was made by talented amateurs. Things are blurry and unrefined, and the game world is dominated by grey and rusty brown - not the most elegant combination. It's amazing that the result looks so right.

 

Doom has its own share of ugly assets though.

 

16 hours ago, StalkerZHS said:

Quake also did that, except for the ssg/sng

SG and SSG are pretty distinct for their similarities. SNG, on the other hand, is a great example of when one weapon completely replaces another.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Da Werecat

[Koko Ricky]

I haven't played PowerSlave, but the gameplay videos I've watched are impressive. There's some really nice animation and texturing in that game. The console version has lightmaps which was pretty ahead of its time.

[Da Werecat]

Technically, those aren't lightmaps, but close enough.

 

https://powerslaveex.wordpress.com/2015/04/30/optimization-time/

 

I wanted to mention this game too, for its metroidvania-like progression, but I wasn't sure if it's relevant here.

[Koko Ricky]

Holy crap, that's vertex shading? It looks better than Quake 3's vertex shading! That's really interesting.

 

Shadow Warrior is worth bringing up because it's the fanciest of the Build games, even fancier than Blood, purely in terms of architectural feats. I remember in the shareware episode, seeing an underwater area that was transparent, which had its own swimmable area under the floor, and it was all contained in the same area without resorting to portals. There's stuff like that throughout the game.

[Koko Ricky]

Also, check out Cyclones from 1994. It has some pretty nice features including sort-of dynamic lights, room-over-room, stuff like that. I never heard about it until recently.

 

 

[ShoDemo]

I liked Hexen, which nailed the fantasy setting, in my opinion. It added classes and the inventory system, with many interesting items (dark servant, porkalator, wings of wrath, e.t.c.), providing more variety and customizability. Also, the music added the needed feeling of dread and the game did very well on the <<You are alone fighting hordes of enemies>> scenario, with its plot about the corrupted kings, the elves and everything else. And I will never forget the whole earthquake-explosion thing, that happened after beating Heresiarch in the third hub. I couldn't believe my eyes. The only similar thing to this I remember seeing is Duke Nukem 3D in the second stage, where the building collapses after a few button presses.

 

Hexen was a bit of a late comer to the party though, being released on 1995, yet I find it amazing what Raven did with this game for its time.

[Voros]

I'm surprised Strife wasn't mentioned (unless I missed it). It took the one thing Doom never put much emphasis on, and amplified it. A RPG in the Doom engine is a pretty cool feat. Hub maps, NPCs that directly or indirectly played a role in the progression, multiple endings, a scifi medieval-ish theme, voice acting, etc.

 

Too bad it wasn't much of a commercial success, and how the source code was lost. It's a great game for what it is.

[VGamingJunkie]

Duke 3D had more interesting weapons. The Shrinkray and Freezethrower provided some variance with unique deaths and having their own strategic elements with the shrinkray "one shotting" most enemies if you could catch them and the freezethrower bouncing around walls, making it good for a corner weapon.

 

Also, the Pipebombs and Tripmines add a sense of entrapment if you wanted to go for that.

 

Not to mention, the pistol is much more useful than Doom's since it's faster, at the slight cost of having to reload every so often.

[42PercentHealth]

22 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

I liked Hexen, which nailed the fantasy setting, in my opinion. It added classes and the inventory system, with many interesting items (dark servant, porkalator, wings of wrath, e.t.c.), providing more variety and customizability. Also, the music added the needed feeling of dread and the game did very well on the <<You are alone fighting hordes of enemies>> scenario, with its plot about the corrupted kings, the elves and everything else. And I will never forget the whole earthquake-explosion thing, that happened after beating Heresiarch in the third hub. I couldn't believe my eyes. The only similar thing to this I remember seeing is Duke Nukem 3D in the second stage, where the building collapses after a few button presses.

 

Hexen was a bit of a late comer to the party though, being released on 1995, yet I find it amazing what Raven did with this game for its time.

Agreed! I think Hexen gets too much flak, TBH, because many people found it confusing and/or unbalanced. To read many of the criticisms, you would think that the critics wanted it to be "medieval fantasy Doom." Of course, we already had Heretic to fill that slot, and we already had Doom as well. The developers of Hexen went out on a limb to create something that was not done before. (BTW, inventory was already used by Heretic, and many of the items were the same.)

 

I also agree that the atmosphere was much better done in Hexen. I enjoyed playing Heretic when I was 5 or 6 years old, but Hexen scared the bejeebus out of me! I think it was the duller color palette -- Heretic just looked too cartoony.

 

The puzzles in Hexen were somewhat crude, mostly due to the nature of the engine. There's not much you can do with just keys and switches. Hexen 2 was much better at giving clues and pointing you toward the goal, without actually holding you by the hand. I did get lost/stuck a few times in Hexen 2, but each time I was eventually able to see that I had simply overlooked a clue or missed what the game was trying to tell me.

[Agentbromsnor]

I was (and still am) a big fan of dark FPS games during the 90s. I loved Hexen's graphics, and Blood is one of those games that I played a ton. 

 

I wish more FPS games today would take place in a medieval sort of horror setting, but I think horror-themed FPS games (besides Doom) have become sort of a taboo.

[42PercentHealth]

I've never played Blood... something to add to my backlog, I guess.

 

EDIT: It's like some game developer said, "We can't make another horror-themed FPS game -- people will think we're just trying to copy Doom and Hexen. I have an idea: Let's make a military shooter!"

 

"But, Boss, aren't Call of Duty and Medal of Honor and --"

 

"Ah, but this won't be like any of those other games. This one will have REGENERATING HEALTH! And CUTSCENES! And CINEMATIC EXPLOSIONS!"

Edited March 28, 2017 by 42PercentHealth : One more thought...

[Varis Alpha]

Duke Nukem 3D easily has the better level-design over Doom. it's realistic, but game-y enough to not feel like a bog to play. the 4 episodes of Duke 3D have much better levels overall than Doom and Doom 2 combined. the music is also great, boasting an entire soundtrack with no repeats, which is one of my favorite MIDI soundtracks ever. there's no question about how good these elements are, when more realistic-looking Doom levels with Duke 3D music in them have popped up.

 

Dark Forces 2 also has great level-design, with a dizzying amount of verticality and great sense of space. i'd argue that Dark Forces 2's levels as a whole are better than the later Half Life (too small and corridor-esque) and Unreal (great atmosphere but really tedious to explore), and it's easily why i replay that game's levels over Doom's anytime of the day.

[SFoZ911]

I think both Duke Nukem and Blood had better level-design but in terms of weapons and monsters, Doom outdid them both, especially Doom 2.  I think Quake 1 is the best FPS of the 90s and IMO is way superior to anything mentioned in the thread.

[nxGangrel]

Blood and Quake had much better level design and atmosphere than Doom did by far. Quake's design which was honestly a fuck up and a mash of various things was perfect for the new dimension thing it had going which helped its bizarre level design. And Blood had that old timey, cryptic, and gothic look. Especially on episode 5 I think. 

Unreal/Unreal Tournament had very nice weapons which I always though more (old school type) games should emulate. They all had a purpose and were different enough from each other in their uses, I always wanted to see a game that took them and made them more unique in function and look. 

 

While I will admit Duke Nukem 3D had better looking an more interactive level design I never enjoyed playing the game. I never really liked the levels that much and I didn't like the weapons or the monsters or just playing the game in general.

[Grain of Salt]

Hexen has better atmosphere, art and music than doom.

 

Quake 1-3, Duke3d and Unreal Tournament between them have a handful of weapons and monsters I'd like to cherrypick and add to doom. Quake 3 in particular has a weapon selection which is pretty much perfect imo. Oh, how I wish cl2 doom had 9 or 10 flawlessly balanced weapons like Q3 or UT.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Blood balancing on the weapons side is good but the monsters balancing is completely silly. Cultists are the scariest things from the start to the end, Nothing is scarier than ranged snipers who can 2 shot you from the other side of the world and throw tnts left and right cuz why not. Meanwhile bosses like spider mothers are nothing but an ammo waste (you can afk and they'd still take more time than a zombie to kill you haha). Not mentioning Tchern who went full dps build and feels like a comic relief when you shoot him with napalm (goes flying) unless you install balancing patches.

 

People don't think hexen is unbalanced. They think centaurs are a boring as shit enemy type especially when it is around everywhere. If they were shootable from sides and back they might've been better but naah.. They become godlike the moment they put that shield up unless you use the most op as shit weapons in the game. Korax is unbalanced as well especially when classes can steam roll him in 20 secs, Hell a cleric can kill him before he even teleports to the 2nd phase and bug the map for himself lol.

[Koko Ricky]

Blood's enemies are weird. There's not enough engaging enemy types like the cultists, zombies and gargoyles and swamp-men and ghosts (although their scream is a bit grating after awhile). I think there was ample opportunity to include more fleshed out, distinctive enemies--maybe a take on the witch, werewolf or Frankenstein's monster archetypes--but instead we get a secondary monster roster that is mostly underwhelming.

[Battle_Korbi]

Here comes dat newbie!

 

Personally, while Half-Life doesn't feel like a 90's shooter at times, it is. And this game fascinates me till t'day.  Not to mention all the mods being developed from it, to me Half-Life is like the new Doom. When I first played it I was scared to the bones, while Doom didn't had that impact on me (dunno why though). Mostly because the aliens were just that, aliens. Strange homicidal monsters, bent on spreading chaos and killing everyone. Then the marines and the damn ninjus were a nice change of pace once I got used to the aliens. Not to mention how I silently treated G-man as the arch-nemesis of the time, trying to shoot that fudger down every time I would see him, thinking if I did, I would get some answers on what the foxtrot was happening. All in all, great rehearse on a same concept, great execution, well designed levels, atmosphere was consistent, a well-rounded game in general. Only thing that would be a bit of a bugger is how some enemies work, but when there is a will, there is a way as well. Oh, and creepy barnacles. Taught me well to check the ceiling in every other FPS game after that.

[Aquanet]

Descent (1994) for 3D monsters and doing looped de loops.

[42PercentHealth]

2 minutes ago, Aquanet said:

Descent (1994) for 3D monsters and doing looped de loops.

I LOVED descent! Never played more than the shareware release of Descent 3, but it looked promising as well.

[Nevander]

*Nostalgia nerd warning*

 

The only thing that outdid Doom was Doom 2. :)

[ShoDemo]

Hexen gets love! Yey.

1) 42PercentHealth, I haven't played Blood too, but I've seen some gameplay clips and it looks great. Maybe I will search for a boxed version on Ebay someday, or I will quit from that search and get it online on Steam or Gog.

2) Battle_Kirby, Half Life is indeed a masterpiece. I played all Half Life games (loved them) and I remember shitting my pants, when I played Half Life 2 younger and was on the run from the Combine.

3) Agentbromsnor, that would be cool, but who needs medieval horror setting games, when you have games such as Cod Infinite Warfare *falls on the floor and starts coughing until dead*. 

4) Voros, I wanted to mention Strife too, but I haven't played much of it and I don't know well the stuff it did better than Doom, so I would probably have been very inaccurate if I chose to speak about it.