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Xyzzy01

Which Doom 2 monster do you think the game needed the most?

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Or alternatively, if only one new monster made it in Doom 2, which one would you choose?

 

I pick either the revenant or the mancubus. Not just for looks, but the mid-tier monsters in the original roster is severely lacking.

Edited by Xyzzy01

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IMO, of all monsters, Archvile has the best potential for strategic usage, especially when combined with other monsters, and I'd be willing to let all mid-tier monsters go just for this strategic element to stay.

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I would go with the revenant alone for the auto target function... its a weak enemy but can also be very dangerous in groups !

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I think the Revenant was the most needed as an enemy weaker than Cyberdemon that uses explosives. It was a threat that really couldn't be used otherwise without having a really unfair Cyberdemon added to the fight.

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Sergeant, 12 or more of then can decrease your health by at least 20 if not take care (and cover).

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I would say the Archvile, it's an immediate threat in different ways with it's ability to do critical damage to you and also resurrect fallen baddies making your life much more difficult.

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While the revenant can go to hell and burn... oh wait, he comes from hell, doesn't he?

 

Anyway, the revenant, in my opinion all of the monsters, I can't just pick one, everyone has it's own unique feature, even the Hell Knight, he screams like a baby giraffe

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@NecrumWarrior Revenant missiles don't splash...

 

If I could only choose 1, I'd probably go with the AV.  I use more Revs, Mancs, and Arachnos, but I could replace those with other things in a pinch (Mancs, admittedly, would be difficult).  Viles have such a unique behavior that they really are impossible to substitute -- when you need a Vile, you need a Vile, and nothing else would ever do.

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Ooh, that's a hard question. I think immediately I'd rule out the hell knight (too similar to imps and barons), the chaingunner (do we need another hitscanner?), and the pain elemental (because I HATE those freaking buggers!!).

 

That leaves revs, mancs, arachnotrons, and archies.

 

Despite the fact that they are my favorite enemy, I think I'd have to leave out arch-viles because by Doom 2 time, all the old monsters would be getting pretty tired. Killing them more than once would make them really tired.

 

Arachnotrons are the "least interesting" of the remaining three, since they become harmless where there is room to circle-strafe, or else where there is cover. Almost any place is one of those two.

 

I agree: it comes down to revenants or mancubi. Do we need a slow, tanky enemy or a fast, lethal enemy? I think I'd go with the revenant, because 1) The speed and homing projectiles are more in line with Doom's fast gameplay philosophy; and 2) given  the fact that these new enemies will be heavily featured (in the absence of any other new enemy), I think a tanky enemy will make the game feel grindy.

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Also saying Archvile, because it disrupts lazy circle-strafing and forces a more rhythmically-precise approach to cover-based strategy; on top of its obvious ability to regenerate a prior battlefield.

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Of the mid-tier projectile enemies introduced in Doom 2, I think the Revenant adds the most unique flavor. The Mancubus and Arachnotron are fun, but as "barrage" type enemies they feel similar, not just to each other but also to the other hard-hitters in the first Doom.

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If I'm honest, the entire additional besitary has importance in the overall balance of combat dynamics; with one exception. Kinda. The Knight is a better balance between HP and overall threat (this has been discussed multiple times already, I know) and renders the Baron completely obsolete. Motherfucker's no threat, just a waste of ammo and an annoyance.

 

In the Baron's place I'd love to have seen an airborne 'barrage' enemy, because I'm a horrible person.

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I could easily be moved to join the arch-vile party.

 

2 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

In the Baron's place I'd love to have seen an airborne 'barrage' enemy, because I'm a horrible person.

Like the afrit in Scythe 2?

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13 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

In the Baron's place I'd love to have seen an airborne 'barrage' enemy, because I'm a horrible person.

I was just thinking, with the glut of simple imp-style projectile enemies in Doom 2, it would be cool to see one that fired a random bullet-hell barrage which the player would have to quickly navigate, kind of like a randomized "drunk" version of the Mancubus barrage. An airborne enemy that did this could be cool.

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Let's see... Doom II monsters and what they bring.

 

Chaingunner: continuous hitscan fire, makes for great turrets.

Hell knight: baron with half the hit points.

Revenant: homing projectiles (sometimes).

Mancubus: spread fireballs.

Arachnotron: continuous projectile fire, makes for good turrets.

Pain elemental: pest generation, can be made useless depending on the number of lost souls in the rest of the level.

Arch-vile: original attack method unshared by any other monster, and enemy reviving ability.

Wolfenstein dude: continuous hitscan fire but slower than the chaingunner's, looks ridiculous.

Commander Keen: opens a door when all are dead; only counted as an enemy by a technicality.

Boss cube spitter: invisible and invulnerable, spawns monsters continually if special spots are available, technically not an enemy.

Romero's head on a stick: ends the level when killed, no attack, technically not an enemy.

 

 

So I'd say the arch-vile wins.

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Doom 2 have many useful monsters, but I will choose Pain Elemental - it can fly, it can spawn.

About most useless monster - it's Hell Knight. Just grayed half-baron. Don't know why ID guys did not make another monster, at least the visual part.

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Least Needed : HK, completely pointless because you might as well use the revenant or cacos and still get a more fun fight.

 

Most needed is really hard to answer. They all help increase the replayability of the game.

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I would have to say the Arachnotron because hes a good midtier enemy that is great for starting infights and is probably the best turret like enemy in the game.  It's hard to use the arachnotron right since he has a high painchance and is easy to hit however when used as a turret or in long narrow corridors hes unequaled.  Visually the arachnotron is the most unique of all mid/high tier enemies and when used right id rather see arachnotrons placed in good locations rather than 4 revenants or chaingunner spam.

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3 hours ago, Jayextee said:

The Knight is a better balance between HP and overall threat (this has been discussed multiple times already, I know) and renders the Baron completely obsolete. Motherfucker's no threat, just a waste of ammo and an annoyance.

I still like the Baron.  They provide a good focus point for a wave of enemies.  If there's a mass of enemies with a Baron in the middle, once you've finished cleaning up the mess the Baron is often the last one standing, and killing it (even if it only takes a few bullets by then) feels like a nice punctuation mark to the fight. 

 

Using them by themselves should be done sparingly, but there's just something about that reddy torso that lends gravitas to any situation.

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There's absoluteley no necessicity in the HK if you can just put a baron surrounded by some barrels.

 

Arachnotrons are the more fresh and less gimmicky monsters that cover up a lot of space, are almost as threatning as a Spider mastermind and have a fair amount of HP.

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4 minutes ago, joe-ilya said:

There's absoluteley no necessicity in the HK if you can just put a baron surrounded by some barrels.

 

Why.

No, I'm not expecting an answer, hence the lack of a question mark.

 

5 minutes ago, joe-ilya said:

Arachnotrons are the more fresh and less gimmicky monsters that cover up a lot of space, are almost as threatning as a Spider mastermind and have a fair amount of HP.

 

Almost? Not even close. With enough room to circle either, I know which I'd put my money on. It's the hitscanner. Shit, get a good enough rhythm and you can left/right strafe alternate to actually dodge an Arachnotron's plasma in a 128-wide hallway.

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Revenant. The arch-vile does it's thing but for a common enemy it's gimmicky to use all the time. The Revenant puts a sense of dread into every combat that you "might not be able to dodge this" which was new to doom 2 and that could be used in combination with any other set of enemies without feeling like you were fighting some sort of (yellow key card :P :P ) boss.

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2 hours ago, Jayextee said:

 

Why.

No, I'm not expecting an answer, hence the lack of a question mark.

 

 

Almost? Not even close. With enough room to circle either, I know which I'd put my money on. It's the hitscanner. Shit, get a good enough rhythm and you can left/right strafe alternate to actually dodge an Arachnotron's plasma in a 128-wide hallway.

It depends on the environment, no shit.

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EDIT: Removed profanity and the reference to orally expelled mucus so that Linguica wouldn't find it dumb anymore.

 

Cacodemon.  That fluffy red fellow with the evil grin that shot ball lightning at you is what made Doom so memorable for me.  

Edited by Tracer

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1 hour ago, Tracer said:

EDIT: Removed profanity and the reference to orally expelled mucus so that Linguica wouldn't find it dumb anymore.

 

Cacodemon.  That fluffy red fellow with the evil grin that shot ball lightning at you is what made Doom so memorable for me.  

So does for me, but he was not presented as new in Doom 2

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