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Xyzzy01

Which Doom 2 monster do you think the game needed the most?

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As evil of a sumbitch as the archvile is, its unique attacks--lock-on blinding flames followed by an explosion--stands out amongst baddies that mostly launch projectiles. Resurrecting the dead is also a very unique move, making it perhaps the most dangerous enemy in the game. While not as iconic looking as the manc or rev, there's no

denying the conceptual importance of the arch. 

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The Revenant, for me personally its the second or third major threat after the Cyberdemon and Archvile. Weak yes, but deadly if used well, even more so in larger numbers. And I suck at fighting those skinny fuckers.

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Arch-vile because he is my second favourite enemy in Doom and Doom 2 as a whole. He is the deadliest medic that has ever existed in a game. Many times he can oneshot you if you are not properly armored and that is the reason I keep the good stuff for him (rockets, cells). He is a high priority enemy and unloading my deadliest weapons on him is always enjoyable.

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From a purely technical standpoint, I'd agree on Arch-vile and Revenant. If used well, both are great additions.

 

The issue I have is, that far too many mods do NOT use those two enemies well.

The Revenant in particular hads been 'degraded' to a common medium-health enemy in so many modern mods, like a more resistant imp. That's clearly not its place in the game and has killed more than mod for me.

 

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I'd say either the Hell Knight or the Arch-Vile.

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After a good night's sleep, I wish to change my answer to the Wolf dude; obviously.

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The wolf ss dude is great for modding purposes. I'm suprised nobody has said him or commander keen yet for that particular reason.

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^ It's an unconventional take on the question. "The monster that the game needed the most is the one that is the most expendable in favor of modded custom content."

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After another good night's sleep, I wish to revert my change to my answer.

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The Revenant, you can always pick a bone with them.

And they can fire those delicious homing rockets on thier shoulders at you which make them a bonetastic and dangerous enemy especially if they are in groups.

Honorable mention to the Arch-Vile, that skinny fella is a real threat with it's lock-on burning explosive attack and it's resurrecting ability.

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Pain Elemental, because it demands immediate attention. Can't be ignored, unless you want to deal with more monsters (Lost Souls). That, combined with the weird alert sound makes it intimidating. The arch-vile is great too of course, but it's been mentioned enough here already.

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Either the Chaingunner (because it makes a great turret, and balances extreme damage output with very low health, encouraging the player to balance aggression with caution), or the Wolfenstein SS (mod-expendable, and its base logic if coupled with a set of sprites, like say the Rapid Fire Troopers' for example, makes for a great "soldier" type enemy that's better than the Zombieman).

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The purpose of HK is to be a Baron with less health, usable as a common mid-tier enemy. The purpose of Baron was originally to be the Doom E1 boss, which is why he has too much health and it makes him awkward to use as a common enemy.

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Arch-Vile. He is the second most dangerous monster, has an unique attack that forces you out of the routine of dodging projectile attacks of most other enemies, and can turn the situation into much worse if he has the time to resurrect another powerful monster.

Revenant can go eat a bone.

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Skellingtong or chingunner

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The rev was most needed because it strongly encourages the player to bob and weave and maneuver, as opposed to mancs and arachs, which are more about dodging. You had to weave around barons and caco's in doom 1, but by the time doom 2 came out, many players had gotten too good at it.

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For me, this was a tossup between the mancubus and archvile, though I'm leaning more toward the archvile.  Just a few mancubi will form a bullet hell situation, where the player either needs to take cover or weave between projectiles while remaining observant for other threats.  Meanwhile, the archvile significantly amps up the threat level with monster revival, making one think twice about entering a room that was previously cleared out.  It goes without saying that introducing an archvile significantly alters the flow of battle, making it the primary target over other threats.  This, of course, is without even touching his attack, which is required to behave as it does, so as not to slaughter/damage enemies that were just resurrected.

 

That being said, I'm gonna go with that mass-respawning "I Can Hit You From Anywhere On The Level" bastard as the most needed (and pain in the ass) enemy.

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1 minute ago, silentzorah said:

That being said, I'm gonna go with that mass-respawning "I Can Hit You From Anywhere On The Level" bastard as the most needed (and pain in the ass) enemy.

The arch-vile will not target a player more than (IIRC) 768 map units away, unless hit by said player. So there is a "safe distance" where if you leave them alone, they'll leave you alone.

 

Makes it just a tad more fair.

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^ Unfortunately, the distance (actually 896 map units) is not entirely safe, as a bug can make the Archvile attack the player anyway if he's hit by another monster that immediately dies afterwards (I read this in a thread that I couldn't find now), admittedly this doesn't usually happen very often, though.

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Or if you even tickle the vile with a pistol. Since you probably want to kill him even if he is far away :P. Viles changing target is one of the less mentioned annoying as hell things, Especially with the fire staying on the original target. That or getting nuked your last hp by the explosion around his target after he kills an imp\zombieman lol.

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While on topic of annoying glitches, the Archvile's behavior surely has multiple quirks, but nothing as bad (IMO) as Mancubus projectiles that randomly clip through walls just because they're so fast and thin.

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5 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

While on topic of annoying glitches, the Archvile's behavior surely has multiple quirks, but nothing as bad (IMO) as Mancubus projectiles that randomly clip through walls just because they're so fast and thin.

ZDoom, FTW!!

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But that's part of the Mancubus's charm!

 

"Oh, you thought you were gonna hide from me?  GUESS AGAIN, COWARDLY MARINE!"

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7 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

Mancubus projectiles that randomly clip through walls just because they're so fast and thin.

Yup.... That cost me quite a few runs in the past.

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4 minutes ago, 42PercentHealth said:

ZDoom, FTW!!

^ Now I wonder why ZDoom didn't also fix the problem with Archvile's fire staying on the original target after the Archvile changes his target mid-attack.

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Just now, Nine Inch Heels said:

Yup.... That cost me quite a few runs in the past.

Wait... how common is it? I thought it was pretty rare.

 

Also, out of curiosity, if the fireball clips into a wall, is there a chance of it getting blocked again on the way back out?

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2 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

^ Now I wonder why ZDoom didn't also fix the problem with Archvile's fire staying on the original target after the Archvile changes his target mid-attack.

Dunno. That would have been nice... are there any ports that DID fix that?

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