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SilverHawaiin

Doom 2: Update

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It occurred me a long LONG time ago when I was young... and stupid. I played Skulltag on my own with bots on a crappy laptop I had bought 2 Years before...

I was playing Skulltag maps then I'd switch over to campaign maps to see a difference in level quality/Style. "Why Don't they update these maps at least" I asked my self... A Few years down the Road, I decided to make a Post about it and ask for you talented men and woman alike for to try and make this idea of an "Update" Come true as a megawad. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

So What is this So-called "Update" Idea? You may ask yourselves.

 

Well it seems complicated or maybe I'm making too much of a big deal about it one post (Apologies ahead of time), But here's the Deal...

 

Guidelines:

-You keep the maps nearly the same and Identical to the very original, It must be the same map layout however You can add extra areas, Items, Enemies, and such only as long as it emphasizes the levels style of game play, Dont you dare think of turning Map01 of Doom2 into a Slaughtermap! 

-All maps must be UDMF Format and can Utilize as many UDMF Functions as possible!

-Absolutely NO KDiZD Level of Detail, Ever.

-If you want to add some more details to the original maps, that's fine. Though do it in the same style and as if it were there to begin with or stylize it like how the level (Or original mapper) would

 

Now the UDMF Sub part:

-Make use of Sliding doors!

-Make use of 3D Floors!

-Make use of deep water or 3d Floor water levels!

-Please make Use of Colored Sector lighting! It helps atmosphere!

-Make use of Fog to if it fits with the level!

-Use skyboxes to help establish the Surrounding environment for the level

-Fix any bugs or problems the maps had before (You know how developers will sometimes lower a ceiling level with F_SKY1 over a type of building while having taller buildings in the same level, then looking up to realize the taller building behind the smaller building your looking at fades into the Sky texture?, Fix that especially in the levels that need it!

-Use Dynamic Lights to!

-Use Fitting Ambient Sounds! It'll add to atmosphere!

-Make use of Realm667's Special weather and elemental Effects! E1M9 could really use some rain...

http://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/sfx-shoppe-mainmenu-139-58855/elemental-effects-mainmenu-142-40777

http://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/sfx-shoppe-mainmenu-139-58855/weather-generators-mainmenu-144-68253

-Your allowed to Skulltag textures! (Down load Skulltag_data_fixed: https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417)

-Use Sloped Floors to!

-Use Realm667 Props that fit with the style of the level (No Hexen or Heretic Looking props though)

-Feel free to use friendly marines as long as they aren't everywhere.

-Particle Spawners are welcome to, though I'll remove some if I find them to unfitting

REMEMBER! This is not a Complete Level Overhaul! This is an "Update" TO stylize and make The original Doom levels fresh again with GZDooms features! Maps may have edits to item and enemy placement as well as extra Areas to explore, but do not under any circumstances, change the shape or flow of the map.

 

ALSO: You are only allowed to choose maps from the 4 IWads as we will peice a "Compilation" Together at first before we do each individual IWAD. Until then, Choose a map!

 

Example:

e1m3screen.png.3842e32f74b01c373d6b2938aa56ba06.png.8cfebe2c2658829662072f3307c83d49.png

 

(Credits to Drfluffystuff)

                                                                                                                                                                            

Maps So far:

0% (HEAVY WIP)

Maps Claimed to work on:

E1M1-E1M8 - StalkerZHS

Map01 of Plutonia - NecrumWarrior

E2M8 - UAC-Janitor

Map02 of Doom IIl! If you have any Questions, Please Post and ask them! I may have missed somethings!

Edited by UAC-Janitor : Started working on e2m8 for demonstration purposes

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I'll see about putting together a texture pack that includes the Doom 1 and Final Doom textures not present in Doom 2. Some retexturing might need to be done on some of the non Doom 2 maps, since some Final Doom textures have the same name as ones in the original Iwad.

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This is a terrible project idea. Instead of sprucing up existing IWAD maps with pointless ZDoom-isms, why don't you work on something more interesting and/or original?

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@Blastfrog I'll never understand your tastes. I don't think you understand the full scope of what exactly is to be achieved in this one.

 

Its basically like the "Make Freedoom Great Again" project: taking the mapset and cleaning them up (while throwing out the horrid ones with new ones.)

Edited by Voros

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27 minutes ago, Blastfrog said:

Instead of sprucing up existing IWAD maps with pointless ZDoom-isms

Please, let's not conflate a term which means "unintentional dependence on $PORT because it caters to sloppy mapping" with "intentional dependence on $PORT by deliberate use of its features". The former is a bug; the latter is designer's choice.

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Im interested in seeing where this goes. The IWAD maps are certainly growing stale in time, and while I'd love to see a project for Doom 2 in the vein of Wonderful Doom, this too seems pretty promising. Lost Levels for PSX Doom is a good example of how some of the levels got a visual and feature update, with coloured lighting and transparent textures and so on, making some levels feel so very different.

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I saw the original thread for this, and I kind of interpret it as a "GZDoom Effects Challenge".

 

Basically how much additional content and atmosphere can you squeeze into an IWAD map without changing any of the geometry.

 

I'm not much of a DECORATE expert so I won't partake, but I'll be fascinated to see the results.

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8 hours ago, Bauul said:

I saw the original thread for this, and I kind of interpret it as a "GZDoom Effects Challenge".

 

Basically how much additional content and atmosphere can you squeeze into an IWAD map without changing any of the geometry.

 

I'm not much of a DECORATE expert so I won't partake, but I'll be fascinated to see the results.

I decided that new areas and Height adjustments are Welcomed only as long as its to help compliment and add to the level design original style of gameplay. You can add more Open spaces to doom 1 maps to really help emphasize Non-linear gameplay!

Edited by UAC-Janitor : Changed "doom" to "doom 1"

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2 hours ago, konamikode said:

I can try to work on MAP02 of Doom 2. I'm not the best at this kind of stuff, but I'll try :)

Good luck to you! I promise it wont be too difficult, you'll be fine! :D

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Are we talking about potential copyright issues or have I mis-understood the scope of this project?

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1 hour ago, Searcher said:

Are we talking about potential copyright issues or have I mis-understood the scope of this project?

It's not possible is it? We're not Re-Releasing the original maps as our own. Obviously we'll give lots of credit to the original map makers who made the foundation for such a project, We're just here to spice it up and modernize it without tinkering with the level design too much and using special effects to breathe new life into these good IWAD maps. Don't worry about copyright because honestly, who could go wrong with the Levels being spiced up with some engine capabilities? It'd please both the More Modern type fans of Doom and The veterans at the same time, You couldn't go wrong! (Well, maybe something could be a cause of conflict, who knows...)

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Well... yeah copyright might be an issue. Although, what you were talking about with updating entire IWAD's maps should be fine since they would still require the original IWAD to play. I could see it being a problem with FreeDoom out there, though. As anyone with FreeDoom could theoretically play the levels still. This actually might not be in the realm of possibility unless we could somehow enforce use of the original IWADs to play them. The compilation idea may not work for this reason. This is something that needs to be considered before moving forward, as the legality is a bit questionable. I got a bit too excited by the idea and sort of forgot how this could go wrong in that regard.

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On the other hand, there are other projects out there that arguably violate copyright on Doom. The Sprite fix project for example contains what are essentially wholesale sprites of monsters, which are copyrighted. All they did was spruce up the originals. And just the same, you could load it with FreeDoom and suddenly you are fighting the original hordes of hell without having paid for the game. So, where does the line end? If there is some issue with this that doesn't apply to the sprites then I would very much like to know what it is.

 

EDIT: I actually just tried it out, and it doesn't work quite as well as I expected, haha. Turns out a few frames are not included in the WAD. I actually forgot that weapons would be there though, so that was interesting.

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23 minutes ago, NecrumWarrior said:

Well... yeah copyright might be an issue. Although, what you were talking about with updating entire IWAD's maps should be fine since they would still require the original IWAD to play. I could see it being a problem with FreeDoom out there, though. As anyone with FreeDoom could theoretically play the levels still. This actually might not be in the realm of possibility unless we could somehow enforce use of the original IWADs to play them. The compilation idea may not work for this reason. This is something that needs to be considered before moving forward, as the legality is a bit questionable. I got a bit too excited by the idea and sort of forgot how this could go wrong in that regard.

I know there are different ways of how companies approach copyright, but..

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/290930/ <-- Free Overhaul, contains everything from original game all for free

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/220/ <-- Original game 

 

I think what we're doing would hardly affect anything. I'm not saying this should be an IWAD on its own the player can load from DOOM.wad and DOOM2.wad, this will be a Megawad that'll obviously require the original IWAD content to play through. So guys don't worry about it, and if we do get problems with copyright strike? Well, it was a good run for fun, maybe we could continue the legacy somehow with our maps. 

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You do still HAVE to own Half-Life 2 to play that. And as I stated, you could load the maps we make with FreeDoom meaning people could play it without owning Doom. This could be an issue if we don't find some way to enforce usage of the original WADs. Assuming that's even possible to do.

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27 minutes ago, NecrumWarrior said:

You do still HAVE to own Half-Life 2 to play that. And as I stated, you could load the maps we make with FreeDoom meaning people could play it without owning Doom. This could be an issue if we don't find some way to enforce usage of the original WADs. Assuming that's even possible to do.

Crap I missed that yellow part.. Well if its played with FreeDoom I dont think they'll be able to get the original textures unless somehow get the original WAD or something Equivelant to it... This is all confusing, Im sorry I should've thought about this earlier..

 

The last thing I'd want to do is make a system similar to Sgt. Marks Decorate system he made for Brutal Doom V21 and just have it like that. We'll see.. Maybe a Code that detects if the person is using FreeDoom and shut him out from it?

 

EDIT: Well, I know the Original textures wouldn't matter anyway if FreeDoom provides its own stuff, the only thing we could say at this point is "At least you dont have Doom's Original textures! muahahahahahahahhahahaahah" Screw it Man, We'll just have to Continue, would Zenimax be that bothered if it were played with FreeDoom textures? Plus the Additional Lighting effects aditions, Possible fog, Possible texture changes, New Areas, Fixes and such? 

Edited by UAC-Janitor : Reason thingy

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Maybe just add a disclaimer that they should you just buy the original IWAD to be fair, which sucks, but it'll do, 5 Dollars isnt that much...

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FreeDoom does replace the original textures with new ones, but they use the same name so that any WAD for Doom can be played with it. The actual issue is that the campaign itself, ie the maps, are part of the copyrighted game. I don't expect anyone would go out of their way to sue us over a 23 year old game (Unless it were Nintendo), but it would be in bad taste to not find a way to deal with this. I was thinking that some code might be the way to go if we can figure one out. I don't know any of the scripting stuff for Doom though and what it's capable of.

 

EDIT: A disclaimer would be a good start. I was digging around in the game files trying to see how perfectly FreeDoom matches Doom, and boy howdy it's pretty much spot on with the graphic names even. I was hopeful that they would name the actual graphics something different, since they could still define those graphics as whatever texture name they want, but they stuck to the exact same names meaning we can't insert the original Texture Lump into the WAD to throw off the ability to use FreeDoom.

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3 minutes ago, UAC-Janitor said:

I am sad man :(

Don't be. I know this is crappy, and honestly I wish I had realized the complications sooner, but this could still happen. Don't stress it too much right now. This is actually a lot better than what could have happened. We could have gotten waste deep into development only to have it all come down. Catching it this early and trying to find a way to make this work is a good thing as far as I am concerned. And even if it doesn't work out, there are plenty of other maps to be made. It's not the end of the world.

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Don't dwell on this matter and keep going. Doom assets have been edited countless times for who knows how long. This Update project is quite similar to the Doom Minor Sprite Fixing Project, and no ones really complaining about project. At least I don't. BTSX provides all the sprites of Doom, due to pallete reasons.

 

There is a mod called Impatience. It comes with the IWAD maps slightly modified (layout, texturing and all that is virtually the same), but no one really said anything on that matter.

 

And lets not forget that you're not distributing the IWAD maps the way they are, only modified and cleaned up.

 

Freedoom is meant to run Doom PWADs. That's one of the goals of Freedoom. The contents of the PWADs isn't its concern.

 

Unless you plan on selling it, it could get you into trouble from Zenimax. 

 

Just keep going, the IWAD maps could use some cleaning up and modern features anyway :)

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21 minutes ago, Voros said:

Don't dwell on this matter and keep going. Doom assets have been edited countless times for who knows how long. This Update project is quite similar to the Doom Minor Sprite Fixing Project, and no ones really complaining about project. At least I don't. BTSX provides all the sprites of Doom, due to pallete reasons.

 

There is a mod called Impatience. It comes with the IWAD maps slightly modified (layout, texturing and all that is virtually the same), but no one really said anything on that matter.

 

And lets not forget that you're not distributing the IWAD maps the way they are, only modified and cleaned up.

 

Freedoom is meant to run Doom PWADs. That's one of the goals of Freedoom. The contents of the PWADs isn't its concern.

 

Unless you plan on selling it, it could get you into trouble from Zenimax. 

 

Just keep going, the IWAD maps could use some cleaning up and modern features anyway :)

Great point. Lets all get going with this project then!

 

I don't mean to be a bandwagon person on opinions and such, Its just What Voros said is quite true. I mean at this point though, it shouldn't even matter for a 20 or so year old game. But Hey, I'm still going to add a disclaimer because at the same time, freedoom can be modded through and changed to make it look closer to doom and pretty much have all of the doom levels available for play. These are Great points Voros and NecrumWarrior, I think we'll eventually narrow this issue down, but until then, I think its safe to continue updating these maps now! 

Edited by UAC-Janitor

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Yeah, I mean it's not like anyone can stop us working on the maps in the meantime if there is an issue.

 

Okay so assuming the Greatest Hits is still our first goal, with Doom 2 as the base, there will be some missing textures for people remastering for Final Doom and Doom 1. I'm going to try and create a unified resource for all the missing textures, but in the meantime you can download texture packs for both of these releases here:

 

http://realm667.com/index.php/en/texture-stock-mainmenu-152-97360/doom-style-mainmenu-153-87237

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Freedoom will be able to run it, but who's going to run it in Freedoom anyway? The number of people would be insignificant (I'd be one of them, cause why not :P). Not to mention Freedoom is an unfinished product, whereas Doom was finished over 20 years ago.

 

People that are familiar with PWADs will be familiar with Doom. The majority of Doomers play Doom, because it's Doom. The chances of them resorting to Freedoom to run what is supposed to be a Doom Map Update Project, is unlikely.

 

Heck, I doubt many Doomers take Freedoom as seriously as Doom. 

 

Edit: Stick with cleaning up Doom 2 only for now. Final Doom/Doom1 can be future projects (if things go well). Will be much easier to handle.

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@Voros I figured Skulltag Textures could help fix some of the missing textures while adding in some new ones that look pretty good IMO. You guys think I should take it off?

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Skulltag seems to miss some of Plutonia's textures. It uses some but not all of them. We could always add in the pack on top of what we have with all the Doom game's textures available.

 

EDIT: Well idk what PK3 I should be using honestly. I downloaded the Skulltex one. Is there textures in one of the others?

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