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bonnie

My first ever doom maps holy lemons

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original nonsense wall of text:

Spoiler

Hello friends, I'm pretty new to mapping and I'm extremely bad at it. I have created two short, short BOOM COMPATIBLE maps over the last 9 or so months... i'm really inefficient. Learning how to correctly import custom textures was a nightmare. Anyways, I've been trying to get somebody to playtest my two maps for a couple weeks now but I guess everyone just hates me so maybe some of you peoples can help ;~;

 

The maps are fairly short and of medium difficulty. I tried to be as creative and colorful as possible because I frickin love it when doom maps are colorful. Please report any bugs or oddities or garbage gameplay out to me so I can fix it and be better at mapping please thank you

 

i'm also making a nice big dehacked patch for my wad, so try not to play with any mods or it'll get all messed up and i'll cry. I'm 100% self-taught in dehacked since literally nobody on doomworld or the rest of the planet seems to have any idea how to use whacked4 or how to make dehacked patches in general so i had to just figure it out on my own, and i still have lots to learn. so far, I have completed 1 new enemy and 2 new weapons, as well as alterations to existing enemies (and weapons), with even more enemy and weapon types on the way. please idfa or idkfa and other cheats and test out all the weapons changes (because i didn't use either of the new weapons in my maps) and see all the new text i put in (also go to map04 to see the new enemy, he's not used in my levels yet either) and give me feedback on the changes pls (i love you)

 

most stuff i stole from realm667 and scythe 2 but i did make a few textures and sprites, which i'm proud as heck of :) i made the 2 custom ssg sprites, the vent textures, some others i forgot, and i also changed a sprite for the new enemy i made because the sprite from the original on realm667 looked dumb so i made it not dumb.

 

i was inspired mainly by scythe 1 and 2 as well as perdition's gate and hell 2 pay. map02 is literally pretty much a remake of map08 of perditions gate. 

 

you will notice that the wad is almost 16mb. this is because i stole 1000 textures.

 

also sorry if this is long and unreadable or in the wrong format or something i'm just tired as heck right now

 

p.s. the single shotgun reloading animation is a meme dont worry about it

 

updated tldr: these are my first two maps that i started like a year ago or something, they're -complevel 9 memes with a cool dehacked patch that changes lots of enemies and weapons (the single shotgun reloading animation is a joke dont worry about it). map01 is hot garbage that i'll be remaking anyways for a project, but map02 is pretty decent imo, so you should totes play map02 atleast

 

game: doom the second, heck on the third planet from the sun

map #: 01-03

editors used: gzdoom builder, slade 3 (a lot), whacked4 (a lot)

build time: enough time to gestate a baby

difficulty settings: only minor changes, mainly to reduce the meme factor of some fights

coop: yes but i made multiplayer too frickin hard

deathmatch: no sir

tested with: prboom+, glboom+, generic zdoom ports

may not run with: vanilla, chocolate doom, things that aren't boom, etc.

known bugs: is being bad a bug

 

a single (read: old) screenshot:

 wboWOhI.png

down to the load: http://www.mediafire.com/file/gkz3p12pcpcxlqs/testytester.wad

 

EDIT: SLIGHTLY UPDATED: https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4fwq158fc6yrky/testytester.wad?dl=1

Edited by bonnie

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If talk about this one screenshot,it looks quite messy. You should use two or three types of ceiling lights,now it feels like a rainbow. Sometimes,it's better add lights on the walls and reduce some brightness in sectors. I guess,I should play your map if I want give you deeper analysis.

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I spending months on my first maps too.
And remember when I maked map for DWMP2016. I completed it for 12 days. The whole huge friggin map.

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I forgot to mention that if at all possible, demos or videos or whatever would be very very nice, but only if it isn't a hassle. i've never recorded a demo before so i wouldn't frickin know how hard or easy it is aw jeez i'm sorry :(

 

i could have made this an edit on the original post but i posted this at 6am and it got buried so i'm being a bad egg and makin this a reply nerds

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Played though it was different and I liked it.  Did notice in the last arena before you exit to the tunnels the platform with the switch behind it the stairs has no texture.  Had a heck of a time getting into the vent in the tunnels.  Don't know if you intended it but after I returned to the last arena I was able to hop out the windows onto the platform. I was a little disappointed with the "to be continued" with no exit.  But thanks for something new, the switches where challenging, it was really different and fun Thank You.

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I made a video for map01. 

 

First off, the changes to the gameplay are generally offputting. I play a lot of regular Doom, so when the super shotgun for example has the same sprite and sound, but there's a delay at the end of its firing animation, it just fucks my 'muscle memory' or whatever the term for it is all up and it feels completely broken. (It's better by the way to slow down the animation more evenly, instead of putting the entire delay at the end.) I noticed the rocket was sped up; I can't imagine fighting a cyberdemon like this!

 

A really important thing: When you change mechanics like this, you pretty much have to change the sprites and sounds too (read: new sprites, not mirrored sprites like the shotgun) otherwise the mod is going to be pretty much unplayable to a lot of people. I played one level and, yeah, the changes were quite a challenge to endure. 

 

As far as monsters go, I'm not sure whatever the hell the revenant is doing, with its occasional weird fireball. But I think one big miss was the baron: the change is cool in theory -- I actually like the increased threat level -- but the way it's executed is all wrong: it fires a projectile from its BODY! :D On my first playthrough I got hit by a few of those fireballs while doing a standard more routine for dodging baron projectiles, because you don't really expect a projectile to suddenly emanate that way. I also laughed at the spectre-ized hell knight. Fine change, I guess, but quite amusing.

 

A lot of the gameplay in the map here is clearing meat from hallways. I skipped the main path and went through the secret soulsphere path just to avoid even more of that. By the way I looked up that secret in the editor; no one is finding that one normally, lol. There are a few more exciting open-area fights, particularly the last one, where you can use the invul to plow through aggressively, which is exciting. (This whole area can be bypassed while invul, but I didn't remember where the first switch was.) 

 

By the way, it's clear that you are a creative and funny person and have potential to make awesome stuff when you figure out all of the fundamentals. I'm really eager to see what you come up with a year from now, for example. This was a fun experience, because of how weird it was. 

 

 

Edited by rdwpa

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Hahaha, making vids in prBoom+ is very easy with a setup (and doesn't tie up the comp, since it's done while I'm doing writeups), so I generally do it if the author requests it and if I've recorded a demo. :) 

 

 

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@rdwpa thank you for all your words. it's a shame that you only played the first map because it's bad as heck and underdetailed and whatnot :(

 

56 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

I play a lot of regular Doom, so when the super shotgun for example has the same sprite and sound, but there's a delay at the end of its firing animation, it just fucks my 'muscle memory' or whatever the term for it is all up and it feels completely broken. (It's better by the way to slow down the animation more evenly, instead of putting the entire delay at the end.)

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Slowing down the overall ssg animation evenly would be much worse, as it feels like doomguy is being a slow salad and nothing is happening, which makes it very frustrating. By adding sprites to make it look like you're loading each shell individually, it gives visual and audio feedback, filling the space and making it seem nicer. Also, the ssg is extended as a sort of nerf to it, to make some of the other weapons more attractive. Also, I'll be adding an autoshotgun at some point, and the chainsaw is currently a beta version of that.

1 hour ago, rdwpa said:

I noticed the rocket was sped up; I can't imagine fighting a cyberdemon like this!

When I read this in bed, I pretty much jumped out of bed and to my computer to see what you were talking about because at one point, I HAD sped up the rocket, but since speeding up player projectiles kinda breaks it's autoaim, i reverted it for the rockets long ago (but plasma is still fast as heck). i got all scared thinking i was somehow so dumb that i managed to leave it in anyways. thankfully, i wasn't that horrifically irresponsible, and the rockets are the same speed, so it sounds like you just have a need for speed, my friend. unless you meant agitated skeleton rockets, which actually are sped up, to make them easier to dodge.

 

1 hour ago, rdwpa said:

A really important thing: When you change mechanics like this, you pretty much have to change the sprites and sounds too (read: new sprites, not mirrored sprites like the shotgun) otherwise the mod is going to be pretty much unplayable to a lot of people. I played one level and, yeah, the changes were quite a challenge to endure. 

this unfortunately will never happen unless i go out and purchase actual variants of these firearms and take pictures of myself holding them because i cannot for the life of me find good sprites for anything at all ever :(

 

1 hour ago, rdwpa said:

As far as monsters go, I'm not sure whatever the hell the revenant is doing, with its occasional weird fireball.

i kinda memed the revenant really hard. his projectiles are shootable, so you can just shoot them down. i guess i really just wanted to see if i could pull it off .-.

 

1 hour ago, rdwpa said:

But I think one big miss was the baron: the change is cool in theory -- I actually like the increased threat level -- but the way it's executed is all wrong: it fires a projectile from its BODY! :D On my first playthrough I got hit by a few of those fireballs while doing a standard more routine for dodging baron projectiles, because you don't really expect a projectile to suddenly emanate that way.

 when i first figured out how to use states and what not, one of the first things i wanted to do was buff the baron, so i gave him a 4 fireball attack. at the time, i didn't quite understand "unused" states and didn't know you could just frickin make more by getting rid of others, so adding 4 additional states to the baron was very upsetting and spooky to me. now, i've got a buttload of them so i've added FaceTarget actions for each baron attack. :D

 

1 hour ago, rdwpa said:

A lot of the gameplay in the map here is clearing meat from hallways. I skipped the main path and went through the secret soulsphere path just to avoid even more of that. By the way I looked up that secret in the editor; no one is finding that one normally, lol. There are a few more exciting open-area fights, particularly the last one, where you can use the invul to plow through aggressively, which is exciting. (This whole area can be bypassed while invul, but I didn't remember where the first switch was.) 

first, you probably noticed in the editor that that isn't the intended path for that secret. in fact, i added that more because i hated playing through my map (which is clearly a bad sign). it's not actually supposed to be findable by anybody but me myself and I.

 

next, holy. frickin. muffins. THIS is the kind of thing i've been looking for!!! I had NO IDEA you could just take the invul right before entering the final area!! but now i don't know what to do. do i keep it as is? do i remove it? make the panel that reveals it close after 30 seconds? do i move it out of the wood arena place thing so that everybody can use it outside? so many questions, so little brainpower :(

1 hour ago, rdwpa said:

I'm really eager to see what you come up with a year from now, for example.

maybe half of another 10 minute map. map02 took me much longer than map01, and it's shorter. i'm actually getting slower.

 

anyways, thank you so much. this helped immensely. i have a lot to think about and i've already made some changes based on your feedback. i really hope you play map02 (as seen in my single screenshot) and perhaps check out the 2 custom weapons replacing the fist and chainsaw (and the custom plasmaboy enemy replacing the zombieman) one day.

 

also i hope i added these quotes correctly. puttin em all in here was strange and awkward :c

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Not sure why I interpreted the rocket as faster. I think it's possible that the other changes warped my mental state significantly. :D 

 

Re the SSG, the main problem is that the animation doesn't do anything at all for that short period of time, which is often when I'm pressing fire, since it's when the usual timing allows for a shot. So it feels broken, like the gun jammed or froze for a bit. Fighting with the SSG is also a rhythm thing, so changes to timing are very risky to the experience (the RL and BFG would be similar). Personally it throws me way off since I'm so used to the regular timing on an unconscious level. You can alter the fire rate of the chaingun, chainsaw, and plasma rifle to some degree without changing much because they aren't timing weapons.

 

If you want to weaken the effect of the invul, you can add a barrier before the final area that takes five seconds or so to lower, but I wouldn't recommend punishing ingenuity by trying to prevent it from being used there entirely. I like when levels have strategic depth to them and reward thinking. 

 

You don't need to take pictures IRL for new sprites; you can use the Realm667 armory

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Re the SSG, the main problem is that the animation doesn't do anything at all for that short period of time, which is often when I'm pressing fire, since it's when the usual timing allows for a shot. So it feels broken, like the gun jammed or froze for a second. Fighting with the SSG is also a rhythm thing, so changes to timing are very risky to the experience (the RL and BFG would be similar). Personally it throws me way off since I'm so used to the regular timing on an unconscious level. You can alter the fire rate of the chaingun, chainsaw, and plasma rifle to some degree without changing much because they aren't timing weapons.

Well, I don't click fire each time. I just hold it usually. Also, what exact do you mean when you say that it doesn't do anything? Because it certainly does at the end, and hell, I even shortened the time between shots. And the overall point of changing the ssg reload is to break the rhythm and slow it down. there's no denying that the ssg is better than a lot of the other guns, what with the usual surplus of ammo and overall high dps. Now I'm really starting to consider creating entirely new sprites.

 

7 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

You don't need to take pictures IRL for new sprites; you can use the Realm667 armory

"this unfortunately will never happen unless i go out and purchase actual variants of these firearms and take pictures of myself holding them because i cannot for the life of me find good sprites for anything at all ever :("

 

I was referring to realm667 when I said that. I've been through their thingy atleast 10 full times, back and forth. Every time I notice something that could be used to replace sprites for a weapon, there's always SOMETHING wrong with it. For example, the "coach gun" looks great! That is, until you download it, open it, and see the reload.

 

;~;

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I guess you have to be used to the normal behavior for the changed behavior to feel very strange.

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So,I played your wad,all three levels. 
I liked music,good choice. Intermission picture should be larger. I still think that these ceilings in second level should only have two,three colours instead of six. I saw some misalingments. Some textures feel out of place,but maybe it's for me. After some time,traps became very predictable,make them harder. 


My gameplay here is quite crappy,because I was very tired. This video is unlisted,so without the link nobody can reach this. 

Edited by MysteriousHaruko

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Okay, I played map02. This one was better. Gameplay is still pretty rough though. Lots of hallways and lots of meat to clear out in front of you in said hallways. The chaingunner near the red key bathroom (lol) can be knocked into the lava, so its piece of rock could use monster-blocking lines. On the plus side, the progression is smartly designed. I like the use of loops and stuff, and that little supply room near the start that has two radsuits, both of which are quite important. It's clear this all was well thought out. On my first playthrough I got kind of lost and stuff. It took me for a while to notice the drop into the slime tunnels. 

 

I recorded a playthrough. Was kind of slow because I didn't remember some areas of the map from my pre-video playthrough, so I decided to just chill and take it more slowly. You can cheese the viles at the end by doing what I do in my video. I notice that unlike in map01, the par time has not been 'memed'.

 

 

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1 hour ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

Intermission picture should be larger. I still think that these ceilings in second level should only have two,three colours instead of six. I saw some misalingments. Some textures feel out of place,but maybe it's for me. After some time,traps became very predictable,make them harder.

Thank you for your words. Watching your video also helped greatly.

 

First, I don't know what's up with the intermission picture. It displays correctly in pr/glboom, but not in zdoom-based ports. :c

Second, I think you're right with the ceilings. I'll work on reducing them to 3 colors, as well as work on making some textures make more sense.

Third, to be fair, you DID play on Hurt Me Plenty, which slightly tones down certain fights and areas by removing specific enemies. Not by much, usually just 2 or 3 high tier bad boys. Still, you're right, some of those fights are pretty predictable.

 

Lastly, from your video I noticed two things: you used "give everything" a lot and you couldn't figure out map02. I'm trying to get a good ammo balance in my wad, but it's extremely difficult. Seeing where you started running low on ammo is very helpful to me to see where I need to add more. Second, I made map02 way too confusing but I'm not sure how to fix it. You kinda sorta skipped half of the entire level by jumping up to the red key door area :P

 

I'll probably end up putting arrows if I can't figure out a reliable way to point players in the right direction. If you're wondering, when you hit the computer thing at the end of the offices, the big green cylinder in the first area (as seen in my screenshot) opens up, revealing the second half of the level.

 

For reference for anybody reading this and playing my levels, this will show you where to go after the offices/bathrooms and what it leads to.9i9upbT.png

 

Anyway, thank you so much friend :)

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I can't believe you played my other map, I thought you hated me by now ;~;

32 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

 Lots of hallways and lots of meat to clear out in front of you in said hallways.

While in the first map it was pretty inexcusable, I don't really know how else to make the gameplay in a sewer-type level. Should I add more traps and side areas? Or just add different areas in general? Should I add access to the outside lava area? I'm sure I can probably fix it, I just don't know how.

32 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

The chaingunner near the red key bathroom (lol) can be knocked into the lava, so its piece of rock could use monster-blocking lines.

I didn't even think there was anything I could do about that. I'm dumb :(

32 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

It's clear this all was well thought out.

I'm glad you mistakenly believe I was smart enough to think out the level before making it. Any feeling you may have experienced of my map being planned or having good progression probably comes from the fact that I based it heavily off of Perdition's Gate map08, so I probably just got lucky with that :(

32 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

It took me for a while to notice the drop into the slime tunnels.

This is a pretty major problem for me. I'm just going to change the inner texture and add arrows pointing the hole out.

 

On a side note, I noticed that you and other fellow who recorded a video never found the entrance to the vents, which sucks :(

I worked really hard on them, and then decided to just put them off in some obscure dumb place so that nobody could get in. :c

 

Anyway, thanks for playing I guess. Having people playtest this has really been more of a bummer than anything, because it forced me to accept that my first maps are significantly worse in every aspect than I previously thought. It would take years at this pace before I could start making semi-decent maps. You still helped a lot though. If you hadn't pointed out these glaring problems I would have continued mapping like this and improved at an even slower pace.

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On 31.3.2017. at 0:26 PM, bonnie said:

you will notice that the wad is almost 16mb. this is because i stole 1000 textures.

why the hell, I'm sure you didn't use them all

Don't bother with removing anything though. If you're as dumb as I am, you'll absolutely destroy your textures and you'll be even more angry at yourself than you seem to be now.

 

I'll download this thing sometime later, 16 MB is way too much for me.

 

edit:

About your mapping speed: if it's any consolation, I can be even slower and my maps aren't benefitting much from all that time.

 

another edit: DO NOT DO THAT, you don't need a 32-level megaWAD. You DO NOT WANT that.

Edited by bzzrak : omg 700th post

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1 minute ago, bonnie said:

While in the first map it was pretty inexcusable, I don't really know how else to make the gameplay in a sewer-type level. Should I add more traps and side areas? Or just add different areas in general? Should I add access to the outside lava area? I'm sure I can probably fix it, I just don't know how.

The slime tunnels are a good spot for roaming monsters, especially if you add a couple more connections. I'd make some of the monsters alert from the beginning, so that they start converging on the player from multiple angles from the moment s/he enters the tunnels. (One way to do this is to put these monsters in a pit that rises when the player enters the tunnels, so that they don't start moving way before the player ever gets there.) I'd also have closets that open at some distance from the player, as in e1m7 of Doom, unleashing monsters that can sneak up on the player. As is, most of the monsters are alerted only when the player reaches them, making the gameplay quite static one-directional. One of my favorite monsters was that very distant arachnotron in the longest stretch of hallway, which is a threat from afar and which you have to get up close to in order to deal with. 

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@Gordon Grand hello friend, this post hasn't been updated in a hot minute, so i updated it and included a new link

(i'll put it right here, too) https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4fwq158fc6yrky/testytester.wad?dl=1

 

i dont know what i did with map01 but i know i mildly improved map02

not that you should be playing map01 anyways since it's really awful and i'm gonna remake it for a CP anyway

 

love,

bonnie

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