Phase 1 Ch 2 > Dev Thread (Bonus Map11)

[Xindage]

Well since i'm now on lead of Chapter 2 i'll open a thread about it whit my edits ideas, this include map11 since i was working it a time ago so i plan finishing it.

Note: i'll not set string like E2M2 since it wont matter much.

 

1 - Ruins

My plan in this map is make it Vannila dm possible, nerf medium and hard skill and fix easy skill missing backpack on a secret.

 

2 - Power plant

First i'm thinking in something better for the name of map this one is similar to doom, aside it this not need much work, but i'm thinking in make the start of map in somewhere else, starting whit monsters already seeing you is horrible in coop when you sometimes take longer to load, resulting in a inevitable death, also add the portals.

Maybe starting in outside of this place sounds a better idea too.

 

3 - Archaelogy Site

Need better name too, since i reworked in this map the name is still from the old version, this name dont match well, aside it i dont think it need works but i'll hav to deal whit the alternate exit.

 

4 - Sample Holding Site

This map has only a deathmatch bug where you cant leave the missile launcher room unless if someone open it by the other side.

 

5 - Fortress 31

I have no idea about this map. also this map is the slot to progress to the secret e2m8

 

6 - Trepidation site

This map has a static waterfall that needs fixing, and this map need of some expanding, its more easy than the other maps before them, but the theme proposal was perfectly, i'll enjoy it to progress to hell theme in e2m7 so after going to hell side you'll need to fight a bit more to return, the real exit is going to be on hell theme so to acess the secrets in the non-hell side of map you'll require to back track (also fight more enemys too).

 

7 - Quarantine Vessel

I have already edit some of this map to be a continuation of the actual e2m6 so i can make this hell theme fit better, also i hope be able to make this map giant, its the last filler map so it need to be epic too.

 

8 - Containment Cell

I'm planning do this map from blank, but for now nothing in my mind to say.

 

9 - Corruption of Man

I have nothing to do in this map so early, but i'm planning to do few minors edits in late future.

 

Map11 - (i just forget the name)

I'm actually focusing this map in the moment, actualy making it ever less doom2 mirror trying (but i not promisse) keeping the original fell of the old version, most of traps i'm still keeping but adding extra traps, this map is just focused in 3 diferent chellenges to get each of the keys, after getting all the keys player is going to face 2 boss batles, rushing in the boss run to avoid them is sure the worst idea possible, this map is very punisher for speedrunner, multiplayer coop in ultra violence result in an extra boss fight early in game but nothing so hard, its just a cyber in an open area (also skipable, while i not recomend because he can chase you around the map), now the acess to bfg is  granted, you just need to find secrets 3 swtichs to reveal a hidden teleport in the red door side, then it'll grant 2 nice things one is secret the other is the acess to bfg.

 

Note: Major bugs in chapter 2 please report them here.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Xindage

[Angry Saint]

Just so that I can develop my freedoom background story according to the level design themes: where do you plan to set episode 2?

 

 

[Diabolución]

C2M2 still suffers from visplanes overflows, mainly in the big room where player has to get the red card, when every section is open.

[Xindage]

5 hours ago, Angry Saint said:

Just so that I can develop my freedoom background story according to the level design themes: where do you plan to set episode 2?

 

my plan in episode 2 is near keeping the theme of semi-corrupt tech like original doom but the player is going to travel in portals, in slot 6 the player is going to switch the dimesions slot 7 is going to follow it on hell and boss fight is in a devil tower of i'm planing.

[Angry Saint]

I'm not hell was planned to be present in Freedoom but generic aliens/mutants/whatever.

[Xindage]

http://www.geocities.ws/protox/FreeDoom/FreeDoom2/map11_p1.wad

 

Posting it just to share my progress in map11, its not playable at most, if you're curious you can see it, use cheats to move after the second part if necessary, if you have suggestion too the time is good for it.

 

Click on them to better sight.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Xindage : Screenshots

[Teivman]

Episode 2 of freedoom phase 1 is a mess.

[Xindage]

i'm get working back in map11 expect a better alpha stage in few days (showing off the major gamaplay of the 2 locked doors.

 

I know you guys and screenshots to proof it but i'm just polishing the details of the area so it looks bad so i'll just try to work on them to post few screens and the alpha in 3 days so please wait, i want to make this map awsome.

 

progress:

Unlocked side: 90% (Needs multiplayer skill)

Yellow Side: 50% (Main layout done)

Blue Side: 70% (needs only few monsters and texturing near the key room)

Red (final) side: 30% (main layout is nearly done but no exit and half of the way devoid monsters)

[Xindage]

there's the map, screenshots is not going now sorry...

 

anyway guys please give me feedbacks about this map, like dificult and gameplay (normal and hard skill has multiplayers monsters, resulting in ever hard mode)

 

http://www.geocities.ws/protox/FreeDoom/FreeDoom2/map11_p1.wad

 

note: the map is going to sudden exit after few gameplay, but still possible to 100% whitout the bfg yet.

[Voros]

IMO the usage of Revenants and Spectres in the yellow key zone (where we get the blue key) is overused. lower them.

 

The spidermastermind is probably best if it were removed. It'll get introduced on map14, according to JXT.

 

In fact, I believe the overall difficulty should be toned down, as the maps after it don't have such long and hard battles. 

[Xindage]

well i can let it in the handle of the czars later, my main objective is make only this map "playable"

[Xindage]

Based on a issue in github of e2m1 i did some edits on it, it got most a minor editing and major rework in dm gameplay, i dont nerfed so so much the hard skill but the map is actualy very easy, you have coverage to hide from them, so what you guys think of these edits? good, bad, need improvement, comment for me below thanks for reading.

 

http://www.geocities.ws/protox/FreeDoom/FreeDoom1/e2m1.wad

 

[Voros]

General
- Remove the spectres in the starting room entirely.
- Change the starting room into something more appealing. Currently, it seems like soulless/wasted space.
- In the room with red bars (leading outside) take out all shotgunners here completely.
- Lower the amount of of spectres in the map by half.
- Lower the amount of shotgunners in the map by half.
- Lower the amount of imps in the map so that it's about 60%-70% of the original amount.
- Take out all lost souls, while keeping a few on UV.
- Use lava or acid instead of blood (damaging blood is strange and weird) or make the blood not damaging.
- Make the secret more noticeable. How the fuck do you even access it?
- Take out all cacodemons.
- Make the blue key switch outside face north instead of west.
- Take out the slopes on that switch, if you haven't already.
- Put the chaingun on a small platform.
- Fighting the shotgunners in the hub room is boring and tedious. Use only a 2-5 here.
- Use a different texture other than the white-wall-and-vines texture (I can't remember its name atm). It doesn't mix well with map's brick and rock theme. Edited June 21, 2017 by Voros

[Xindage]

On 21/06/2017 at 1:29 AM, Voros said:

- Remove the spectres in the starting room entirely.
- In the room with red bars (leading outside) take out all shotgunners here completely.
- Lower the amount of of spectres in the map by half.
- Lower the amount of shotgunners in the map by half.
- Lower the amount of imps in the map so that it's about 60%-70% of the original amount.
- Take out all lost souls, while keeping a few on UV.
- Take out all cacodemons.
- Fighting the shotgunners in the hub room is boring and tedious. Use only a 2-5 here.

great idea let me map it here, oh nice we got 31 monsters in hard, 26 in moderate and 20 in easy seens good now (seens more easy than actual doom in moderate from same slot) if you want the map has proof i send.

well you dont thing thats too hard nerf dude? try recalculating your ideas i'm no kidding i did it on map just to see the results, also why do you want that big nerf, moderate skill i can beat ever bind, well i had some experience about blind gameplay from trying to do the same from a guy of i see on a stream.

 

On 21/06/2017 at 1:29 AM, Voros said:

- Make the secret more noticeable. How the fuck do you even access it?

there's just 2 secrets in this map, one is a soulsphere in a graywall its easy to spot since all the vines on that wall is completely messed up, the other is a backpack near red key the wall is darker and muddy, easy to see too. (at least in software video mode)

If you noticed that have lot of unused area (whit guns inside) and dummy sectors (idclip) its just used by deathmatch mode, try running one dm whit bots to see them, also theres nothing in dm area that prevents you from getting 100% run.

 

On 21/06/2017 at 1:29 AM, Voros said:

- Change the starting room into something more appealing. Currently, it seems like soulless/wasted space.
- Use lava or acid instead of blood (damaging blood is strange and weird) or make the blood not damaging.
- Make the blue key switch outside face north instead of west.
- Put the chaingun on a small platform.
- Use a different texture other than the white-wall-and-vines texture (I can't remember its name atm). It doesn't mix well with map's brick and rock theme.

Here you gave me great and enjoyable feed coments

- about the starting room i can try something new.

- Well acid seens better indeed.

- ok.

- ... i'll change that are so.

- why do you say it, this is a very generic wall so i can put them just to cause a variety, doens't looks bad for me. (actualy i wanted to use a diferent texture but they dont added all phase 2 textures in phase 1.)

 

On 21/06/2017 at 1:29 AM, Voros said:

- Take out the slopes on that switch, if you haven't already.

This is not present anymore.

[Voros]

It's the first map. The real shit happens in the rest of the episode. Players shouldn't have to bore themselves getting through the first map. First impressions matter.

Of course you can sprinkle a few more monsters. But don't go overboard. I understand you love a good challenge, but not everyone plays like a hardcore Doom veteran.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Voros

[Xindage]

I was about to release the re-edited e2m1 but something floated ouver my head after playing episode 2, e2m5 is a zoc map (i think), and its a good map, i dont know if this map is going to be removed by being from zoc or not but if this map is going to be keep i'm going to re-re-edit e2m1 and make all the episode follow the zoc thematic. e2m5 has a major diference in gameplay and theme, so anyone has any idea of what is better to do?

[Voros]

Follow your heart. But I swear, if you make the maps full switch hunts, I'll start to detest the whole episode :P

The Zok map is vanilla (or limit-removing IIRC), so I doubt it'll be removed. Just do what you want. You czars have all the power.

[Graf Zahl]

I'll be blunt here:

 

Of all the maps in Freedoom, the ones by Zok are uniformly the ones I like least. They nearly all feature some overengineered architecture that doesn't allow good gameplay. I had the 'fun' to work on one and there wasn't much to fix the fundamental design problems in there, and for the other maps it doesn't look any better.

 

[Xindage]

hey @Graf Zahl just a bit off topic question so, what your favorite wad? if i can look at it i can have more ideas about good gameplay, to say the truth my fav is hell revealed and alien vendetta. (and few slaughtfest wads)

[Graf Zahl]

In terms of vanilla compatible mods, The Darkening 2, Kama Sutra (only on HNTR),

Generally: ZDCMP2, Waterlabs GZD, KDiZD, Nimrod, Cold as Hell (i.e. more innovative stuff that tries to break the boundaries of what Doom maps normally present.)

 

[Voros]

E1 also features a Zok map, and I personally don't think it clashes with the rest of the maps (yet. Still haven't heard from czar Amarande).

Instead, retexture e2m5 to fit your hellish-tech theme for starters. Then we'll see if it has a positive effect on the episode. Progress is progress.

And shit, HR and AV are your favourite WADs? That explains a lot.

[Xindage]

Just now, Voros said:

And shit, HR and AV are your favourite WADs? That explains a lot.

Hardcore gameplay for you? Try it whit a touch of Complex Doom + LCA on hard + netplay.
 

16 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

In terms of vanilla compatible mods, The Darkening 2, Kama Sutra (only on HNTR),

i have played both, of them Kama sutra dont please me so much in the initial maps but the later ones save it, The Darkening 2 is epic the 1 too.

 

Looks like less corridors and more open places seens the way.

[Graf Zahl]

3 hours ago, Xindage said:

the later ones save it,

 

Because they are harder or because they are better designed?

 

[Voros]

How about sharing that edited e2m1? I'd like to see how it came out as a starting map and if more edits are needed.

[Xindage]

what i have done in e2m1 was nothing so big yet just a random monster balancing in main area and few extra areas added to beggining but nothing so "done" but since you want, take a look it is still playable.

 

http://www.geocities.ws/protox/FreeDoom/FreeDoom1/e2m1_beta.wad

Changes: (this is not final just my work so far requested by @Voros)

New better outside in the beggining.

Some explosion effects.

Reworked (Partly) the dificult.

I detected a heavy radiance in the sector.

Outiside switch to reveal blue key reworked.

Exit was moved to an underground section

[Voros]

Like I said, feel free to sprinkle (and I mean sprinkle) a few more low tier monsters here there, preferably imps and zombiemen.

As for the starting, it currently feels a bit too flat and boxy (I'm you'll do something about that in the future) and the outdoor grass section is very big. Got any plans for this area? It seems like you do.

The difficulty is a tad bit lower than the expected difficulty, but much more tolerable, for an e2m1, than before. Feel free to add some more imps and zombiemen evenly.

Keep it up. BTW, for future maps, maybe you shouldn't add that fireblu teleporter near the beginning of each map eg e2m3. People seem to mistake for something else. I remember getting a WTF reaction when I first saw this.

[Xindage]

everything is just plain because its not done yet, i'm not even sure if i'll keep the outside, seens hard to keep that place cool.

 

about the fireblue teleports i'm looking to keep them all in all maps begining, like quake like if you're really exiting from the teleport (maybe add some metal bars blocking help it), only e2m1 dont have it due you coming from other source e1m8.

 

Note: i dont know how to make my maps looks less boxy... i dont like much doing so curved walls maybe,

[Xindage]

Well since my last edit posted there i dont worked in e2m1 yet, but soon i'll begin on it, but i want to ask @Voros if he have a suggestion to add in list, well my next plan is.

 

> Make the spawn point coming from a cave in outside.

> Add more in scenary and decorations in outside.

> Make the map more linear, so blocking the left path forcing player go to left or front to get the red key to open the blocked path also remove that wall spliting the 2 sides.

> Give a new underground basement mostly shitdown and dirty whit a "hint" of a fake teleport teleporting an blue key to somewhere else. (this is possible in vannila using non-textured walls)

> Put some blue key hints in wall near the destination of key.

-- For Deathmatch.

> Make usage of upper side

> Remove the 2 original teleports presnt.

> Use a teleport to move from one side to other of map.

> Move plasma out of the middle, its unbalanced.

[Voros]

1. OK
2. OK
3. I have no problem with linear progression, as long as it's simply fun.
4. IDK. Could you explain yourself a bit more?
5. OK. But the deathmatch area should be hidden. It makes me think that it's a secret area.
6. What upper side?
7. OK
8. Alright, that might not be a bad idea. As long as it's execution is right.
9. If you feel it's unbalanced, then so be it.

Don't go overboard with difficulty though.

[Xindage]

That upper side of map near red area is unreachable because its for dm and well it dont looks like a secret at all, since it has nothing there, most of actual mods have unreachable scenary for decoaration (BTSX), and secrets show the item to make the player look for it.

 

note: Also i'm going to use more unreachable scenary near the beggining so the player can fell it getting common for this episode.