Standard E1 Replacement Community Project Is Cancelled.

[bonnie]

@riderr3 i played it best friend, great update :)

 

uv-maxed with secret exit in 18:10. i keep forgetting to record demos, i never really do that so it's a hard habit to get into :(

 

i liked the changes overall (music especially!), but i only have 2 gripes (grapes) remaining:

1. the new place you go to when you rocket jump onto the teleporter is super underwhelming, like c'mon, 3 medkits and a backpack?? i want a million soulspheres ;~; also, was that place there before? i don't think it was marked as a secret, unless you removed a different secret

2. i am a firm believer in at least making the lift in the exit building harder to find/access or even making the blue key door slightly more obvious. i saw what you said about using the automap, and I can ASSURE you i used it. a LOT. but i never thought to look at the exit area, cause i was all caught up lookin at the main area. using the automap is actually how i ended up finding all the secrets that i did while looking for the blue key on my first run.

 

thank you for being you

[Spectre01]

By the way, I see people mentioning -cl2 which I always thought was Doom 2 and UDoom is under -cl3. Are those interchangeable for Doom 1 demos or is there a difference?

 

Edit: Attached a ~32 minute FDA/UV-Max of riderr3's map. Damn you @bonnie and your rocket jump comment! Made me waste 5 minutes looking like an idiot trying to do it when there's a much better way to reach that teleporter!

 

As far as general comments on the map go:

-Nice visuals and open layout.

-Gameplay is on the easy side but it fits well with the classic E1 theme and being in an early map03 slot. Some tight ammo balance early on too which meant I used the pistol quite a bit. I like pistol gameplay but I know many don't.

-The main progression of the map involving the red key might be slightly obscure for a non-secret. It requires accessing the wall from a specific point after flipping a switch and then making a jump and going up an elevator. Plus the key has to be lowered first too.

-It's a good map though, I enjoyed it!

reckonf_S01_FDA.zip

Edited April 26, 2017 by Spectre01

[Fonze]

(It's not an FDA if it isn't a blind run; it's just a regular demo)

[riderr3]

On 26.04.2017 at 10:57 AM, bonnie said:

the new place you go to when you rocket jump onto the teleporter is super underwhelming, like c'mon, 3 medkits and a backpack?? i want a million soulspheres ;~; also, was that place there before? i don't think it was marked as a secret, unless you removed a different secret

 

If the author of E1M2 will not put backpack in his map, it's a good item for E1M3 in this "super-secret" area. I do not place other item which affect item count and not marks this place as secret, because not many people even knows about horizontal rocket-jumps in Doom.

Let the map stay at v2. At least until other fatal bugs will be found. And I don't think so.

[Spectre01]

On 2017-04-27 at 2:33 AM, Fonze said:

(It's not an FDA if it isn't a blind run; it's just a regular demo)

Technically everything until the yellow key isn't blind, where the map broke in V1, but everything else is legitimate FDA content. ;)

[CarpetolA]

@riderr3 Very nice map! I have no complaints, save for the process of obtaining the red key as @Spectre01 mentioned. I was a bit confused while trying to find out how to get to it, which added a few minutes to my overall gameplay. Otherwise it's a solid map with the right E1-style and feel, with a pinch of E2 at the end as you said :)

One minor issue I found was a stack of crates with two different textures in the small warehouse containing the chainsaw.

 

@Spectre01, your take on E1M8 made my blood boil. Not because of the adrenaline-pumped, last-map-of-the-episode glory which obviously is the intention, but because of seething rage. I died so many times trying to trudge through the first fight. Having at least a hundred monsters gang up on you from every direction is cool for a map like this, but personally I thought the space was too small and open for that approach, especially with the big pool of nukage to your immediate right with the narrow edges. When I finally got the enemies to nominal levels it got a whole lot easier. A huge difficulty spike at the beginning followed by softness throughout most of the map is not something I'd expect out of a final map. Most people want to be kept on the edge of their seats, with a few breathers here and there. The redeeming factors are the visuals and overall look of the map. The last part looks and feels like an area where a huge fight will take place, though with the problem mentioned above, the fight falls a bit short.

 

Sorry for being harsh, dude. I want to like your map, but right now I feel like I can't :/

 

 

[CarpetolA]

Here is another version of my map. Read the accompanying text file before you guys play ^^

 

3RDMOLAB_V2.zip

Edited April 29, 2017 by CarpetolA : A few small tweaks which I missed before uploading

[Angry Saint]

Sorry I didn't post anything but I'm quite busy with other projects.

 

I'm working on the map slowly, I hope there is no near deadline.

 

Here some screenshots, the map is called "Eden Log":

 

 

 

 

[Spectre01]

On 2017-04-29 at 2:27 PM, CarpetolA said:

The last part looks and feels like an area where a huge fight will take place, though with the problem mentioned above, the fight falls a bit short.

The last fight might be too easy with the bonus Plasma Rifle giving 2 extra BFG shots to kill the Cybers with. The thing is, any additional enemies will make killing the Cybers significantly easier since you can 2-shot them in the ass while they're distracted with infighting. Any suggestions to increase the challenge there are welcome. The fight in the main building is rather easy to tone down by reducing the amount of enemies teleporting in, so maybe current HMP would be better as the UV balance so there isn't too much of a spike in difficulty.

[baja blast rd.]

For my own preferences, I'd enjoy the map more if the actual encounters were beefed up in terms of difficulty (even from the version I played first)*, but the map wasn't so awkward and inconvenient at every turn: the crusher cycle at the start**, bumpy floors, random pain sector strips that don't do anything gameplay-wise but annoy you, those new loose rockets that you have to shimmy around against a wall to grab, the rocket boxes located on Floor Move Up and Down platforms, awkward movement along walls to get the backpack secret at the start . . . Now that I write it all up, it's actually kind of crazy. I don't think any other mapper has ever released a map that is this consistently inconvenient (Ribbiks's average inconvenience level is basically nothing compared to this, and he's considered uncompromising), yet you seem to want to do this sort of thing in all of your maps. I don't really get it, considering there is always still room to increase difficulty through the core elements of the encounters (monsters, resources). Why not do that, instead of making basic movement unpleasant? 

 

 

*Which isn't to say that would be best for the project. 

 

**I didn't mention how annoying I found this a few weeks ago, because I bet that in a maxrun context you can just memorize when to 'go', so that you can look at the advanced HUD and move when the time is at a specific value, and I thought maybe I was being lazy by not doing that. But unless you do that, it's pretty dull and uninteresting, and has no stakes attached to it either, because if you die it's right at the start anyway. In other words, it mostly just wastes time. 

 

 

[Spectre01]

@rdwpa To address a few points: the crusher at the start is not actually binary, as it's possible to sneak under it while taking a small amount of damage along with the usual no damage and a full crush. I think it's a simple enough timing puzzle that happens to look kind of cool. I also view gathering various items at the start as a sort of buildup that encourages the player to explore the area. The backpack secret is also a quick jump across the tech pillar away and doesn't require any awkward climbing.

 

The pain sector strips serve the purpose of looking cool and establishing some atmosphere, as well as slightly punishing blind circlestrafing. I do agree on the moving pillars with the rocket boxes. Those would work better as cover with the rockets placed more conveniently. Also bumpy floors and pain sectors are a great way to make your map feel like a hostile environment!

[bonnie]

@rdwpa holy heck you gave him the beans

[Fonze]

Spectre, all the stuff rd mentioned is among the long list of reasons why I straight up said "I have nothing good to say about your map" (Which is truthfully false; I did like the map-view.) and I'll reiterate that your map needs a massive overhaul, especially when it consists of 3 encounters, 1 of which is undeniably slaughter for a CP asking for no slaughter maps. You should be able to make tough, fun encounters that don't so clearly break the slaughter limit by now.

 

Those crushers, btw, provide 0 challenge except to frustrated players and serve as an extra source of the vast amounts of what I can only call 'visual noise' which comprise your maps aesthetics.

 

Even the 2 crushers that kill the barrels and bulls in the beginning only serve as a challenge to players after their first run from the impatience of waiting for this, then lets go wait for the next "timing" thing, then let's go wait again, all leading up to what can easily be considered the map's most difficult part. So map's most difficult part... and it's preceded by tedious waiting games... 

 

While I'm on the subject, if mrthejoshmon doesn't can that dehacked nonsense (assuming that is still a thing) he can go ahead and can my map because I'm prolly gonna use a cyberdemon and I don't want that splash damage bullshit.

 

(This whole post was the wrong tone for me to convey; apologies)

 

I would really appreciate it if that dehacked stuff were to not: 1, be thrust on me after committing to a project and 2, affect my map's gameplay possibilities. I would also appreciate if mrthejoshmon weighed in on that specifically because if it is to stay, I might not. I don't want to be one to thrust in an ultimatum, because truthfully those only deserve the response, "ok, see ya!" but it's not what I agreed to and I will prolly just slow development of this CP anyway, so it'd be no big loss to tell me to hit the road.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Fonze : Inappropriate tone

[bonnie]

39 minutes ago, Fonze said:

While I'm on the subject, if mrthejoshmon doesn't can that dehacked nonsense (assuming that is still a thing) he can go ahead and can my map because I'm prolly gonna use a cyberdemon and I don't want that splash damage bullshit.

what? also, holy beans!!!!

[mrthejoshmon]

If the dehacked doesn't bone E2M8's end function then I won't remove it.

[NecrumWarrior]

What Dehacked? I thought this was supposed to be a standard e1 replacement, like just making a bunch of tech base maps. Why is the game play being altered? 

[bonnie]

yea what the heck is this dehacked business

 

i didn't see nothin about a dehacked

[Fonze]

Thank you for the speedy response; bad as I feel to do it, I'd like to respectfully relinquish my E1M9 spot for this CP. I wish you all the best of luck completing this! Hopefully more feedback will roll in for this project as it moves along.

[NecrumWarrior]

No, seriously, what the fuck? Is there a Dehacked lump in his wad or something? I can't find any mention of this in the thread at all which is bad form in my opinion, you should be up front about every aspect of the project from the beginning. It should be in the OP, seriously. 

[bonnie]

i want e1m9 i'm gonna just resubmit my e1m6 lol

 

also seriously i also want to know what this fucking dehacked is too

 

but put me down for e1m9 friend

 

edit: unless this conflict gets resolved, in which case put fonze back in

[mrthejoshmon]

E1M8 contains Keen death functions for the cyberdemon to make the level operate as intended, I'm not sure exactly what effects this could cause or if it is even functional in all Doom 1 (limit removing) format ports but seeing as though it is just dehacked I think it isn't going to be too messy.

 

I'd like to also point out I never authorised this change of game behaviour nor did I expect it, Spectre01 implemented it and I'm not seeing it conflict with anything I tested (yet) so I'm gonna let it slide as it doesn't effect anything (yet).

[NecrumWarrior]

Ah, okay I see. Confusion is a bitch. I don't plan on using the Cyberdemon so it shouldn't be an issue for me. 

[Spectre01]

KeenDie is functional in Doom 1 and all it does is open doors tagged 666 after the death of all the map's Cyberdemons, like in Doom 2. There are no other changes, so if you use a Cyberdemon in your map and don't tag doors with 666 there should be no difference. There's no change to splash damage or any of that.

[bonnie]

quick put me in for e1m9 before fonze realizes his mistake and changes his mind!!!!!

[CarpetolA]

Is this project beginning to unravel, or what the hell is happening?

[mrthejoshmon]

Just some weird shit, it is back on track.

 

[Gifty]

Ahg, would it be alright if I gave up the e1m7 slot to someone else? I rather stupidly didn't take into account all the other projects I'm invested in before I committed to this. Sorry :c

[bonnie]

so many slots are opening up oh my goodness :o

[mrthejoshmon]

Fonze is still in (thanks Fonze) so bonnie will get E1M7.

[bonnie]

36 minutes ago, mrthejoshmon said:

Fonze is still in (thanks Fonze) so bonnie will get E1M7.

if i get e1m7 then i have to either start a new map or commit to a massive redesign of my old map, but nobody expects super duper high quality from a secret level :(

 

i don't know if i want to commit to e1m7 and be a failure again when there are other people who want and deserve a spot in this lovely cp, so just consider my spot open and if nobody claims it for a day or two i might jump back in :)