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Sallan

DOOM is one of the best games to mod in history

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or even the BEST.

 

User Friendly - if not, tutorials help very much, the engine limits cause this, mapping is the best example.

 

Tools - DOOM is quite old, and the related programs too, various versions and much time to result in a fantastic evolution.

 

ACS - The code makes sense (at least partially) to a fully unexperienced person, real words are very present.

 

I just know how to modify doom and a little of GTA 3D era, generally games are "very closed" for some reason.

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Saying Doom is the BEST is an understatement.I've never gotten tired of it, been playing for 15 yrs.I'm no mapper, but I know what I like.I hope it lasts forever. :)

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ACS isn't really "Doom modding", though.  It's modding in a modern engine that happens to be able to read Doom wads.

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35 minutes ago, Cynical said:

ACS isn't really "Doom modding", though.  It's modding in a modern engine that happens to be able to read Doom wads.

So instead of ACS, C/C++ (can't renember original DOOM language) would be modding?

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Doom modding is anything that changes the game. ACS counts. Custom source ports count. Whatever you want.

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You can't change Doom 1 or 2 with ACS.  ACS can only change user-made wads that don't run with the original executable.

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27 minutes ago, Cynical said:

You can't change Doom 1 or 2 with ACS.  ACS can only change user-made wads that don't run with the original executable.

Assuming only vanilla wads will run with the original executable, everything that's not vanilla compatible doesn't count as moding?

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Hiya!

 

Also, I'd like to add that many (well, at least me...) also consider Hexen and Heretic "DOOM" whenever talking about "DOOM Modding". It's easy to say "I make DOOM maps", than it is to say "I make original DOOM maps, DOOM II maps, as well as the Hereic game that was based on DOOM, and Hexen which was also based on DOOM II but added a lot of other stuff". Most people would look at me like "Er, so you're a game nerd. Got it" if I said that. But if I say "I make maps for DOOM", pretty much everyone at least has heard the name and knows it's either an old game or a movie that had The Rock in it. Either way, it's easier to keep them engaged in the conversation, and even get them interested in such an "old game".

 

So, uh, yeah. DOOM* rocks!

 

*see description of what games are coverd when talking about DOOM modding. :)

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4 minutes ago, pming said:

Hiya!

 

Also, I'd like to add that many (well, at least me...) also consider Hexen and Heretic "DOOM" whenever talking about "DOOM Modding". It's easy to say "I make DOOM maps", than it is to say "I make original DOOM maps, DOOM II maps, as well as the Hereic game that was based on DOOM, and Hexen which was also based on DOOM II but added a lot of other stuff". Most people would look at me like "Er, so you're a game nerd. Got it" if I said that. But if I say "I make maps for DOOM", pretty much everyone at least has heard the name and knows it's either an old game or a movie that had The Rock in it. Either way, it's easier to keep them engaged in the conversation, and even get them interested in such an "old game".

 

So, uh, yeah. DOOM* rocks!

 

*see description of what games are coverd when talking about DOOM modding. :)

U forgot Strife, but nice to renember this.

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Strife modding? Come on, Heretic and Hexen together got like two dozen persons making maps for those games; the whole Strife modding community would fit inside a portable toilet.

 

I joke, but yeah... I really should play Strife some of these days. Seems like an interesting game.

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11 hours ago, Darch said:

Assuming only vanilla wads will run with the original executable, everything that's not vanilla compatible doesn't count as moding?

It's not modding for Doom.  It's modding for Crispy or Boom or ZDoom or some other executable made by someone else that happens to run Doom wads.

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'Doom' in the general sense refers to anything from vanilla to GZDoom. To refer specifically to Doom(2).exe or something comparable, people will say 'vanilla (Doom)'.

 

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9 minutes ago, Cynical said:

some other executable made by someone else

So Linux Doom or Doom 95 don't count?

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19 minutes ago, Cynical said:

It's not modding for Doom.  It's modding for Crispy or Boom or ZDoom or some other executable made by someone else that happens to run Doom wads.

What are source ports, though, if not modifications of Doom?

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2 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

What are source ports, though, if not modifications of Doom?

Joining that logic to Cynical's, The Sky May Be is not a Doom mod, because it requires a modified version of Doom to run. Hell, anything with Dehacked work is not a Doom mod, because it is a modified Doom engine.

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20 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

What are source ports, though, if not modifications of Doom?

By this logic, wouldn't Half-Life be a Quake mod?

 

19 minutes ago, Albertoni said:

Joining that logic to Cynical's, The Sky May Be is not a Doom mod, because it requires a modified version of Doom to run. Hell, anything with Dehacked work is not a Doom mod, because it is a modified Doom engine.

DeHacked work is (or at least used to be) done by modifying the shipped executable, not by playing with source code that was never on the disc.

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Fucking hell, could you stop going against the grain for the sake or arguing? Your arguments are shoddily constructed and very obviously written to serve as bait for a reply. I know I've just been hooked by said bait but holy shit.

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16 minutes ago, Cynical said:

DeHacked work is (or at least used to be) done by modifying the shipped executable, not by playing with source code that was never on the disc.

copy zdoom.exe doom2.exe

There, a modification of the shipped executable that runs ZDoom-specific mods :B

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1 hour ago, Cynical said:

By this logic, wouldn't Half-Life be a Quake mod?

I don't think the logic even follows here. Half-life isn't a source port of Quake. Are you really arguing that 'source code' is what defines a game, rather than design? By that logic, SNES/PSX/N64/Saturn/GBA/Macintosh/etc Doom isn't Doom either. In fact, let's extend that logic further and say that any line of code written after DOOM Alpha 0.0.1 is not DOOM either. The source code to Doom was released with the express purpose of studying and extending (modifying or MODDING) it. Your argument is silly.

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Half-Life is built on a modified Quake 1 engine.  Valve modified the Quake 1 source code and built game data files to run on the modified Quake 1 source.

 

Aside from scale, how is that any different from making a wad for Boom or GZDoom?

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I suppose the lines are blurry, depending on where the line between mod, total conversion, and commercial game lies. For example, The Adventures of Square was created on ZDoom and marketed (heh) as a full game built on the Doom engine. But at its core, it was still just a modified version of Doom, created using advanced features of a source port of Doom rather than its own codebase based on the Doom source. In that essence, I still consider it to be a Doom mod because it requires an advanced Doom source port to run.

 

On the other hand, you have the slough of maps released since the very first source ports of Doom. They look like Doom, play like Doom, have the same assets, mostly the same engine and editing limitations -- with more enhancements as time went on. The entire Doom modding community exists around building MODs that very often require advanced Doom source ports. It says so right in the /idgames readme files. It seems awfully cynical to me to suggest otherwise.

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The core of what I'm getting it is that, as released, Doom isn't mod friendly at all.  All sorts of weird limitations rear their ugly heads and the only way to see if you've run into them is if they crash your executable or eat your geometry when you try to run the map, and since the Id guys just coded whatever linedef actions they needed, it's difficult (if even possible) to get the effects you want consistently.

 

Boom is mod friendly (although I suspect most people's reaction to "you program scripted sequences by doing hacky things with player starts on conveyor belts" would be "WTF?"), as is (G)ZDoom, but these are new engines that were made specifically to be friendly to modders.

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25 minutes ago, Pavera said:

The entire Doom modding community exists around building MODs

I mean, yeah, obviously?

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6 minutes ago, Decay said:

Features are the future. Fuck vanilla doom.

where's the dislike button

 

Source ports are for sissies, it's a Known FactTM. Who actually maps for that crap, seriously? :]

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49 minutes ago, Pavera said:

The entire Doom modding community exists around building MODs

Disagreeing here is quite a task. ;-)

 

EDIT: Snap... Ling beat me to it... :(

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Ya doom modding has kept my attention for 10+ years and for the most part I spend more time doom modding then actually playing games.

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