Have you finished Doom with pistol starts only?

I remember watching a video where John Romero was playing through the first episode of Doom, a while he was doing that he also talked about different things about the levels. One of the things that he said that I thought was interesting was the fact that all of his levels were designed to be finished with a pistol start in case the player died and hadn't saved.

 

So I played through the game in Ultra-Violence with a pistol start on each level, and I was impressed to see that while it was certainly harder, it was possible and it wasn't really that much of a problem. Thy Flesh Consumed is another story. That was fucking hard, and it shows how that episode was just all over the place. I also tried with Doom 2, but it was clearly designed to use all of the weapons from previous levels, so I eventually got tired and stopped trying.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

All Doom maps in iwads and nearly every pwad are designed to pistol start. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post

Not really, I'm a continuous player in general, I always thought that was the standard mode despite the possibility of pistol starting in all the maps from the iwads. Plus I've never tried to do any wad that way, it still feels like something I won't have fun with. Probably in a future I'll change my mind and give it a try.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

Yes I have finished every map in Ultimate Doom, Doom 2, TNT: Evilution, and Plutonia, from a pistol start, on UV, with 100% kills/secrets, at least once. Some of them are tedious, and others outright annoying, but they're all possible for even a mediocre-skilled player who is willing to persevere a little.

 

6 hours ago, KVELLER said:

I also tried with Doom 2, but it was clearly designed to use all of the weapons from previous levels

How did you come to this conclusion? IIRC all Doom2 maps have an upgrade from the basic pistol easily available at the start, which for me is a clear indication pistol starts were accounted for.

Share this post


Link to post

Interesting. I didn't know that this was such a common thing.

2 hours ago, RjY said:

How did you come to this conclusion? IIRC all Doom2 maps have an upgrade from the basic pistol easily available at the start, which for me is a clear indication pistol starts were accounted for.

Maybe I'm wrong about all of the maps being like that, but I remember that in The Chasm (Doom 2) there isn't any weapon at the start, and I ended up punching demons in the face.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, KVELLER said:

Maybe I'm wrong about all of the maps being like that, but I remember that in The Chasm (Doom 2) there isn't any weapon at the start, and I ended up punching demons in the face.

The shotgun can be reached in <10 seconds without having to fight a single monster :) No tricky ledge run needed, the gap is small enough to straferun over.

 

brWnNSe.png

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

I've done Ultimate Doom, Doom II, and Plutonia full pistol starts. Plutonia was unsurprisingly the hardest, though Doom II had some really tricky bits (the PEs in Barrels 'O Fun come to mind). Overall though I found the experience pretty fun.

Edited by InsanityBringer
holy crap tricks and traps is not barrels of fun

Share this post


Link to post

At first I think that you're talking about finishing all doom using only the pistol... That could be an achviement for sure!

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Walter confetti said:

At first I think that you're talking about finishing all doom using only the pistol... That could be an achviement for sure!

Quite. While there are D1EP* Tysons for all four episodes on the DSDA, unsurprisingly there is no Tyson D2ALL.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Walter confetti said:

At first I think that you're talking about finishing all doom using only the pistol... That could be an achviement for sure!

I highly respect anyone with the skill and patience to achieve that.

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

Can I ask how in the hell did they kill the bosses??

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

Don't forget about infamous Master Levels. Even when each map supposed to play with pistol only, many people played it continuesly . Myself too, especially when I played it last time in PS3 version, all levels are combined in one episode, this makes levels simplier. Also there are bug with secret area in Bloodsea Keep, but this is offtopic.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

I have beaten Ultimate and Doom2 from pistol starts on UV. I found it super fun, but man, Barrels O' Fun is fucking brutal from a pistol start, for me anyway. I got through the whole wad up to that point without dying, then it kicked my ass about 10 times before I managed to squeeze past!

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post

I can remember I finished all episodes of Heretic on 4th difficulty with wand start each level. Whenever I entered next level, I just typed IDDQD to suicide and restarted level with elven wand only. Oh good sweet memories. Some levels from 4th or 5th episode were really tough. What I often did, I launched a random level from any episode and played through it, I remember I used DM.exe for it (the multiplayer game launcher).

I probably played through all Doom2 with pistol starts as well, but I cannot remember exactly. Nowadays when I play custom Doom2 megawads, I always play continuous game, no pistol starts at all.

Share this post


Link to post

It's not only iwads put I also play every pwad from pistol start as well, so long as the maps are designed specifically for that which most are. 

Share this post


Link to post

Makes the e3 spiderdemon fight a lot more interesting too.

 

I think you can attribute some of the fact that many people consider it a letdown to them just blasting that thing away with a full arsenal. You actually have to be a little crafty about it if you go in pistol only. That was kind of an eye opener for me.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, thaquoth said:

Makes the e3 spiderdemon fight a lot more interesting too.

 

I think you can attribute some of the fact that many people consider it a letdown to them just blasting that thing away with a full arsenal. You actually have to be a little crafty about it if you go in pistol only. That was kind of an eye opener for me.

Yeah, it gets quite tricky. I guess they just didn't think about the player fighting with all of the wepons.

Share this post


Link to post

I had so much fun beating Ultimate, 2 and 64 (EX) on UV. I consider pistol start as the true standard of playing Doom - if a custom megawad is too hard, I'll try on HMP (sometimes even HNTR) but still with pistol start. I save only in the middle when I have to stop playing suddenly, otherwise I'm trying to finish maps without saving - usually warping with idclevXX. I play continuously only when it's really recommended (like Unloved).

 

While we're at it, let me go a little bit off-topic: Are there any games, besides Doom, Heretic and Blood, with the "pistol start" phenomenon? I know that Painkiller have this partially - besides having collected weapons kept, everything else is reset.

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Michael92 said:

I had so much fun beating Ultimate, 2 and 64 (EX) on UV. I consider pistol start as the true standard of playing Doom - if a custom megawad is too hard, I'll try on HMP (sometimes even HNTR) but still with pistol start. I save only in the middle when I have to stop playing suddenly, otherwise I'm trying to finish maps without saving - usually warping with idclevXX. I play continuously only when it's really recommended (like Unloved).

 

While we're at it, let me go a little bit off-topic: Are there any games, besides Doom, Heretic and Blood, with the "pistol start" phenomenon? I know that Painkiller have this partially - besides having collected weapons kept, everything else is reset.

I guess you could do that in Hexen at the start of each hub. I don't know if that would work well though.

 

EDIT: Wait, did you meant games where it "forces" you to lose everythingif you die?

Edited by KVELLER
Misunderstanding...?

Share this post


Link to post

Not only when I die, but even when I go to the next level. One thing is sure - it should be fair and, at the same time, enjoyable through the whole level.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Michael92 said:

Not only when I die, but even when I go to the next level. One thing is sure - it should be fair and, at the same time, enjoyable through the whole level.

Haven't you tried with Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior?

Share this post


Link to post

I've never been a fan of pistol starts, unless the map is meant to be one like the start of a new episode or a death exit or something. If I go from one map to the next realistically why would I suddenly be stripped of all my shit?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Nevander said:

I've never been a fan of pistol starts, unless the map is meant to be one like the start of a new episode or a death exit or something. If I go from one map to the next realistically why would I suddenly be stripped of all my shit?

In no particular order:

  • Technical: the game engine is not a giant world simulation where all 30+ maps in the WAD directory are loaded simultaneously and run concurrently. There is only ever one map loaded at a time. Each map is its own separate universe which is destroyed on player exit.
  • Aesthetic: very few mapsets are designed to follow on, with "start of next map is copy of previous" design (cf. Cleimos 2). There are vastly more mapsets where the components show no physical connection from one to the next.
  • Independence: most mapsets (especially these days) are made by disparate groups, each member working largely independently. Maps are not made with the remaining inventory from the previous map considered, because at build time, it is not known. The only option for the designer is to balance for pistol start. Even maps in tightly-knit team productions are still balanced for pistol start (btsx, sunlust, etc.)
  • Challenge: playing several maps in a row leaves you with a constantly fully powered inventory. After three or four maps the game is too easy: you have all the guns, never run out of powerful ammunition, health/armour always well above 100, etc.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, KVELLER said:

Haven't you tried with Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior?

I didn't like D3D after I've tried the shareware version. I may check Shadow Warrior soon, as I see that this game is free on Steam (correct me if I'm wrong).

Share this post


Link to post
41 minutes ago, Michael92 said:

I didn't like D3D after I've tried the shareware version. I may check Shadow Warrior soon, as I see that this game is free on Steam (correct me if I'm wrong).

Yes, the DOS version is free. There's also the redux version, but I wouldn't recommend you to buy it if you haven't played the game before. It could end up being a waste of money.

Share this post


Link to post

I actually haven't played Doom or Doom 2 with pistol start or pistol only. That's a fun challenge. Same as Heretic or Hexen using the wand or the first weapon (fist, mace or sapphire wand, this latter being the easiest).

Edited by leodoom85

Share this post


Link to post

i'm sorry, but playing pistol-start only sounds like it would be impossible for me to ever accomplish. i'm just not all that great at the game :/

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, roadworx said:

i'm sorry, but playing pistol-start only sounds like it would be impossible for me to ever accomplish. i'm just not all that great at the game :/

It's not that hard. At least if you remember the weapon's locations.

Share this post


Link to post

If I play Doom or Doom 2 with pistol start, it should be easy...right?

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now