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SOSU

Doom vs Heretic

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Which do you like more? (I like Heretic more btw)

DECIDE FOR THE DESTINY!

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I like Doom more but I think the shareware episode of Heretic is better than both The Shores of Hell and Inferno. It's of Knee-Deep in the Dead quality.

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Wasted a lot of time trying to justify either. So I'll just go and say I love both equally. Neither beats the other in major stuff so it is all nitpicking.

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Just now, Pegg said:

Wasted a lot of time trying to justify either. So I'll just go and say I love both equally. Neither beats the other in major stuff so it is all nitpicking.

Just nitpick the shit out of both

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Heretic probably has one good episode worth of maps out of 5 episodes full of filler. The weapons feel and sound weak. Half the items are irrelevant. Some of the music too, good lord.

 

Any Doom game stacks up better, but if we're talking about Doom 1 it itself has plenty of flaws people like to ignore because they played E1 back in the day and thought the whole game was A+ for it.

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I'm a big fan of Heretic and consider myself a Heretic mapper rather than a Doom mapper who works with Heretic. But Doom is pretty much objectively a better game.

 

If you compare Doom 1 vs. Heretic, the differences are minor. Heretic has some flaws in its gameplay and it drags a bit by the end of the later episodes, but so does UDoom. In particular, the bestiaries in both games need a lot more variety. Doom's levels are generally designed better, but when you're talking about a community that revolves around custom levels, that doesn't matter too much.

 

Once you bring Doom 2 into the equation, it far surpasses Heretic. Id took a hard look at Doom 1, listened to feedback, fixed everything that was wrong with it, polished the basic gameplay to perfection, and doubled the amount of content available to work with, creating a game that is infinitely replayable and reworkable. Instead of doing that, Raven created a completely different game in the same universe that was also very cool but nonetheless had even worse balancing issues.

 

This is why I want to work with Heretic instead of Doom. I feel like it's got just as much potential, but it needs that same kind of polishing and expansion.

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I guess I like Doom more, by the virtue of the fact that I'm far more familiar with it. I certainly put a lot more mileage on it, and have utilized the software to create stuff. But I'd say Heretic was genuinely creeper, and more interesting. I think the Gargoyles make for a cooler staple-enemy, than the Imps. However, I haven't played Heretic nearly as much.

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2 minutes ago, Not Jabba said:

I'm a big fan of Heretic and consider myself a Heretic mapper rather than a Doom mapper who works with Heretic. But Doom is pretty much objectively a better game.

 

If you compare Doom 1 vs. Heretic, the differences are minor. Heretic has some flaws in its gameplay and it drags a bit by the end of the later episodes, but so does UDoom. In particular, the bestiaries in both games need a lot more variety. Doom's levels are generally designed better, but when you're talking about a community that revolves around custom levels, that doesn't matter too much.

 

Once you bring Doom 2 into the equation, it far surpasses Heretic. Id took a hard look at Doom 1, listened to feedback, fixed everything that was wrong with it, polished the basic gameplay to perfection, and doubled the amount of content available to work with, creating a game that is infinitely replayable and reworkable. Instead of doing that, Raven created a completely different game in the same universe that was also very cool but nonetheless had even worse balancing issues.

 

This is why I want to work with Heretic instead of Doom. I feel like it's got just as much potential, but it needs that same kind of polishing and expansion.

You think the community needs an Ultimate Heretic?

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19 minutes ago, SOSU said:

You think the community needs an Ultimate Heretic?

It needs a Heretic 2 perhaps, but not that linear story-driven TPS we got officially.

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Talking about IWADs, Heretic is way better than Doom 1. It has a coherent theme and consistent difficulty. It definitely helps that Heretic has more features than Doom 1.

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Heretic needs equivalent for the SSG and the BFG on the player arsenal.

On the monster roster, it needs something like the arch-vile or pain elemental to revive old monsters or summon new ones, at least one other boss monster (it's a bit awkward to reuse D'Sparil; whereas you can use spider masterminds as much as you want in Doom/Doom II), and a continuous fire monster like the arachnotron.

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7 minutes ago, Gez said:

Heretic needs equivalent for the SSG and the BFG on the player arsenal.

On the monster roster, it needs something like the arch-vile or pain elemental to revive old monsters or summon new ones, at least one other boss monster (it's a bit awkward to reuse D'Sparil; whereas you can use spider masterminds as much as you want in Doom/Doom II), and a continuous fire monster like the arachnotron.

Someone (i or someone more competent than me) could create some doom style heretic enemies and start a heretic CP (i am not going to start a CP)

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57 minutes ago, SOSU said:

You think the community needs an Ultimate Heretic?

I think Heretic needs the equivalent of Doom 2. The title "Heretic 2" is already taken, but maybe you can see what I mean.

 

I'm not really talking about creating it all as one giant megawad, because that doesn't seem very practical to me. My goal is 7 new monsters, 4 new artifacts, a replacement for the Firemace, additional keys, a larger base of decorations and textures, and various gameplay tweaks, all of which I'm planning to implement in stages through smaller projects as I create it, so that I can work with community feedback as I go (for instance, Wayfarer has two of the monsters, two of the artifacts, the weapon replacement, and most or all of the gameplay changes). Obviously I'm not claiming that my vision of Heretic is the definitive one and that everyone has to use my content expansion instead of making their own. But I do think all of this is work that needs to be done in order to make Heretic as moddable as Doom.

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6 minutes ago, Not Jabba said:

I think Heretic needs the equivalent of Doom 2. The title "Heretic 2" is already taken, but maybe you can see what I mean.

 

I'm not really talking about creating it all as one giant megawad, because that doesn't seem very practical to me. My goal is 7 new monsters, 4 new artifacts, a replacement for the Firemace, additional keys, a larger base of decorations and textures, and various gameplay tweaks, all of which I'm planning to implement in stages through smaller projects as I create it, so that I can work with community feedback as I go (for instance, Wayfarer has two of the monsters, two of the artifacts, the weapon replacement, and most or all of the gameplay changes). Obviously I'm not claiming that my vision of Heretic is the definitive one and that everyone has to use my content expansion instead of making their own. But I do think all of this is work that needs to be done in order to make Heretic as moddable as Doom.

That is a good idea,i would help you if i could make sprites,textures,music,write code or just be a creative mapper but i am not :( / D:

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23 minutes ago, Gez said:

Heretic needs equivalent for the SSG and the BFG on the player arsenal.

The most equivalent of the SSG that already exists is the Ethereal Crossbow powered with a Tome. Or I might be wrong...

But there is no BFG like, I guess that is why there's the Tome of Power.

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I'll go with no other than Doom, because it my favourite game of all time and its setting, in my opinion, is the more realistic one. What I mean by that is, both games are a bit out of this world, but Doom has a plot revolving around the future of mankind and Hell invading our world (more believable to me, honestly I don't know), while Heretic has that dark fantasy style, which, I think, couldn't feel realistic at all (that is the way it is supposed to be), so it needed to be developed more into this <<unknown place>> that Hexen was,  another realm if you will. Also, I prefer Doom's weapons over Heretic's (gimme some BFG and shotgun please). Finally, the soundtrack in Doom is based mostly on metal, while Heretic has a more abstract OST (it seems inconsistent to me, for some reason, compared to Hexen's eerie soundtrack).

1 hour ago, Combinebobnt said:

heretic is like raven's chinese bootleg of all the doom1 stuff before they actually decided to try and make something: hexen

I couldn't agree more, despite the fact that I only played Hexen (and Quake 4) from Raven's shooters. I find Hexen to be the game Raven wanted to make from the start. 

 

Of course, I don't hate Heretic or anyone who likes Heretic more than Doom. I find Heretic a great game, from what I have seen, though I will always prefer Doom a bit more. Besides, without Doom there wouldn't have been Heretic, Hexen, Strife or Chex Quest, at least for a while (they are all great games and we have to thank Doom for being the base material used in developing them).

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37 minutes ago, Gez said:

Heretic needs equivalent for the SSG and the BFG on the player arsenal.

And Doom 2 needs the equivalent of player-activated inventory items, not the overly simple gameplay it normally has.

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I don't think Heretic is a bad game but I absolutely hate the garish texture set, it just hurts my eyes. The game would have been a lot better, had it used Hexen's textures which felt a lot more natural.

 

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47 minutes ago, Gez said:

Heretic needs equivalent for the SSG and the BFG on the player arsenal.

Everybody says this because it feels so instictively true, but it's the one aspect of the whole improve-Heretic-by-making-it-more-like-Doom idea that I really disagree with. Having an SSG and BFG equivalent would make all the combat-related items, especially the Tome, pointless. If anything, the BFG equivalent should be a Tomed weapon (conveniently, the Lightbringer used in Elf Gets Pissed provides exactly that). The stock Heretic weapons are mostly too weak, but adding a couple of individual weapons that can easily carry the gameplay on their own would really detract from what makes Heretic unique.

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Both are good just don't mix them together, e.g. Heretic music in Doom is usually horrible.

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31 minutes ago, Memfis said:

Both are good just don't mix them together, e.g. Heretic music in Doom is usually horrible.

I have a distaste for Rise of the Triad music in Doom, but people seem to accept it.

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It would be cool if id would release some kind off giant wad with all doom,heretic,hexen and strife resources.

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Heretic vs. Doom 1? Heretic.

Heretic vs. Doom 2? Doom 2.

 

Of course, this is from a pure gameplay point of view. Heretic sadly looks incredibly repetitive. The amount of textures it has doesn't help in that regard either.

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