What is irony?

[Memfis]

I'm rather confused about the definition of irony in English language. Especially how to distinguish it from something that's more like just an unfortunate coincidence. I've seen an English professor claiming that that Alanis Morissette song doesn't actually contain any examples of irony, is that true? Who can explain this in simple terms?

[baja blast rd.]

Some basic research, since I was curious about the precise meaning myself: 

 

There are three primary types of irony: verbal irony, dramatic irony, and situational irony. 

 

Verbal irony conveys the opposite of the speaker's intended meaning. For example: "Wow, this rocket launcher is just the perfect weapon in these tiny hallways against all these lost souls." Irony and sarcasm are related, but not quite the same thing. 

 

Dramatic irony arises in entertainment when the audience knows something that the characters don't. For example, you are a mapper watching an FDA of your map, and the player gets down to 17% health and backtracks to the map's hub area to heal, without realizing that a closet of archviles designed as a surprise 'return trap' has opened up.  

 

Situational irony is (quoting Wiki here since that seemed sufficient) "most broadly defined as a situation where the outcome is incongruous with what was expected, but it is also more generally understood as a situation that includes contradictions or sharp contrasts." For example, you pick up a berserk pack in a medium-sized room in an ostensibly normal map, and instead of the expected pack of pinkies, suddenly a spider mastermind warps in and kills you.  

 

Hmm, turns out this Oatmeal comic (which you should read too) talks about the Alanis Morissette line. The explanation is that "it's just an unfortunate scenario; there's no reversal of expectations." I guess it might be ironic if you went to the knife store (if such a thing existed) and it turns out all they had in stock was spoons. If you want a look into a few more obscure types of irony, you can also read the Wikipedia article, but it's not really necessary.

 

[Swine & Roses]

A miserable little pile of secrets.

[Cupboard]

Something has to directly contradict another thing, in principle / belief / fact / or simple existence. The two things can coexist with each other because the world or people created the situation. But as we try to unpack and understand the the state of things, we may find at first things contradict themselves, perhaps humorously, dramatically, thematically, or otherwise. A situation doesn't intrinsically have irony because it requires human interpretation. People from one culture can find a situation ironic while a different culture finds it less so.

 

There are also degrees of irony. Irony is not a 1 or 0. Something can be very ironic or a little ironic. Things can also be ironic if you take them to an argumentative conclusion. On the surface, something may not be ironic, but if you take into account other facts than a different person, something that does not hold irony for one person can ring with irony in my interpretation.

 

There can be "layers" of irony in any given situation. Sometimes an artist creates a piece of art that has several different kinds of irony, in order to make their work deep or complex.

[Bauul]

rdwpa's breakdown is pretty thorough!

 

My own take is the most common form of irony is broadly when someone's attempt to avoid A results in A (or vice versa).

 

In the Alanis Morissette example, mostly she just lists a series of bad luck. Take the first line "It's raining on your wedding day". That's not in itself ironic. An ironic event would be "I wanted to avoid rain on my wedding day, but I live in a rainy country, so I booked a super expensive wedding overseas. However when we got there, it was raining even harder than it does at home! And on top of all of that, it turns out it was super sunny back home!". That would be ironic.

[SaladBadger]

I'm honestly not sure anymore if the "Ironic" song is the way it is because Alanis Morissette didn't understand irony, or if the song's lack of irony is supposed to be ironic.

[Battle_Korbi]

Well, so it happens one of the evil voices in my head is named Irony.

 

World, meet Irony. Irony, meet World.

 

Most often he is the evil dude who can't wait to say "I told you so!" and uses the enviroment to shoot me down.

 

Example:

 

A long time ago, I was me. And I was just coming out from school, having suffered a charade of bad grades, and probably slipped like a idiot, or I was roasted bad again. Summer was close, why the hell did they had the heating up on? Anyways, I just undocked from the bus, ready to go home. All alone, I was there, dragging myself on the empty, sunbaked road to the middle of no-where I live.

 

Me: This day so far was extremely full of coitusable manure.

 

*All positive forces*: Ayy cheer up dude, believe us, either the rest of the day you will be chillin' at home, or tommorow you will sweep the odds and bitchslap the universe!

 

Irony: I don't think sooooooooooo...

 

*EVERYONE ELSE*: STFUOMFGCANTUSEEHEISHAVINGABADDAYUASSHOLE

 

Irony: *laughs like a idiot*

 

Me: Ugh.

 

And there I was. I finally dragged my walking corpse home, dehydrated, expecting nothing but chillin' today. Heck, I deserved it.

 

Or did I?

 

Me: This is nice. Beautiful evening, fresh breeze, nice landscape... Hmm... *grabs tablet and stylus* Good thing tommorow is the Chill Day, and thereby I don't have anything to do.

 

INTERNAL ALARM: RINGADINGADONGADUNGADUN YOU FUCKING DUMB DUMB THREE EXAMS TOMMOROW PLUS HOMEWORK FROM TWO WEEKS AGO YOU DIDN'T FINISHED DONGADUNGADONNGARONGAAA AND SINCE YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION DURING CLASS YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Me: SHIT!

 

Anxiety: Oh nooooo! ARRGH! JUST DON'T GO TO SCHOOL PRETEND YOU ARE DEAD OR PRETEND YOU GOT RAPED BY GYPSIES AND SO YOU DIDN'T STUDY JUST DO SOMETHIIIING!!!
 

Irony: *bellows and laughs like hell's owner* ToOoOoOoOoOld YAAAA! No rest for the wicked! *chuckles like a asshole*

 

Me: WHY DIDN'T YOU WARN ME THEN?

 

Irony: And miss the fun? I am sorry, but I didn't subscribed to see you happy. Now please spend this wonderful evening you intended to draw on doing some shit you don't enjoy. Who knows, maybe if you please me well, I might give a hint or two in the future.

 

Me: ...Really?

 

Irony: PSYKE!!! I can't believe you manage to fall for that one.

 

Me: Just fuck off, then maybe I could finish this shit quick.

 

Irony: Yeah, I could take a nap. Your turn, Anxiety.

 

Anxiety: 'kay boss. *clears throat* You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up baaaad boy. Youuuu fucked up. Youuu fucked uuuuup. Youfuckedup. Fucked. Up. You. Fucked. Up. Thou hast managest to get conceidited in a direction commonly known as up. It was at this moment that Kirby knew, he fucked up. Fuckkkkk. How many layers of screwed are you? Maybe five or six my now my dude. You are like a little baby, watch this... FUCC.

 

Me: Just... shut up okay?

 

Sucks to be me. Hope you managed to find a example of irony here. Basically Diabolus Ex Machina but worse. Without explanation that is.

[YukiHerz]

There is also the concept of layers of irony, created to further degenerate shit memes.

When a meme is shit, someone else is bound to create an ironic meme based on it that's ironically funnier than the original shit meme while still being shit, and it keeps happening, so you end up with a disgusting amount of layers of irony.

[june gloom]

On 4/18/2017 at 1:44 PM, Battle_Kirby said:

Well, so it happens one of the evil voices in my head is named Irony.

 

World, meet Irony. Irony, meet World.

 

Most often he is the evil dude who can't wait to say "I told you so!" and uses the enviroment to shoot me down.

 

Example:

 

A long time ago, I was me. And I was just coming out from school, having suffered a charade of bad grades, and probably slipped like a idiot, or I was roasted bad again. Summer was close, why the hell did they had the heating up on? Anyways, I just undocked from the bus, ready to go home. All alone, I was there, dragging myself on the empty, sunbaked road to the middle of no-where I live.

 

Me: This day so far was extremely full of coitusable manure.

 

*All positive forces*: Ayy cheer up dude, believe us, either the rest of the day you will be chillin' at home, or tommorow you will sweep the odds and bitchslap the universe!

 

Irony: I don't think sooooooooooo...

 

*EVERYONE ELSE*: STFUOMFGCANTUSEEHEISHAVINGABADDAYUASSHOLE

 

Irony: *laughs like a idiot*

 

Me: Ugh.

 

And there I was. I finally dragged my walking corpse home, dehydrated, expecting nothing but chillin' today. Heck, I deserved it.

 

Or did I?

 

Me: This is nice. Beautiful evening, fresh breeze, nice landscape... Hmm... *grabs tablet and stylus* Good thing tommorow is the Chill Day, and thereby I don't have anything to do.

 

INTERNAL ALARM: RINGADINGADONGADUNGADUN YOU FUCKING DUMB DUMB THREE EXAMS TOMMOROW PLUS HOMEWORK FROM TWO WEEKS AGO YOU DIDN'T FINISHED DONGADUNGADONNGARONGAAA AND SINCE YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION DURING CLASS YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Me: SHIT!

 

Anxiety: Oh nooooo! ARRGH! JUST DON'T GO TO SCHOOL PRETEND YOU ARE DEAD OR PRETEND YOU GOT RAPED BY GYPSIES AND SO YOU DIDN'T STUDY JUST DO SOMETHIIIING!!!
 

Irony: *bellows and laughs like hell's owner* ToOoOoOoOoOld YAAAA! No rest for the wicked! *chuckles like a asshole*

 

Me: WHY DIDN'T YOU WARN ME THEN?

 

Irony: And miss the fun? I am sorry, but I didn't subscribed to see you happy. Now please spend this wonderful evening you intended to draw on doing some shit you don't enjoy. Who knows, maybe if you please me well, I might give a hint or two in the future.

 

Me: ...Really?

 

Irony: PSYKE!!! I can't believe you manage to fall for that one.

 

Me: Just fuck off, then maybe I could finish this shit quick.

 

Irony: Yeah, I could take a nap. Your turn, Anxiety.

 

Anxiety: 'kay boss. *clears throat* You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up baaaad boy. Youuuu fucked up. Youuu fucked uuuuup. Youfuckedup. Fucked. Up. You. Fucked. Up. Thou hast managest to get conceidited in a direction commonly known as up. It was at this moment that Kirby knew, he fucked up. Fuckkkkk. How many layers of screwed are you? Maybe five or six my now my dude. You are like a little baby, watch this... FUCC.

 

Me: Just... shut up okay?

 

Sucks to be me. Hope you managed to find a example of irony here. Basically Diabolus Ex Machina but worse. Without explanation that is.

 

 

[edit: good lord, a whole 3-day ban for THIS? I liked it better when 6 to 12 hour loserings were the norm.]

Edited April 21, 2017 by dethtoll

[geo]

Here is the dictionary.com definition: happening in the opposite way to what is expected, and typically causing wry amusement because of this.

 

Here are some examples:

 - Someone is dying so you call an ambulance to save them. Then the ambulance hits and kills the very same person they were called to save.

 - Woman shakes up pepper spray to shoot it into the eyes of her cheating ex boyfriend... alas she has it pointed the wrong way and sprays herself.

 - Man walking across the street leaps out of the way to avoid a speeding car! The car thought it was going to hit him, so it swerved as the man jumped causing the car to still hit the man.

 

Anything in Alanis Morissette's "Ironic" song is unfortunate rather than ironic.

Edited April 19, 2017 by geo

[Nine Inch Heels]

19 hours ago, Battle_Kirby said:

Anxiety: 'kay boss. *clears throat* You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked up baaaad boy. Youuuu fucked up. Youuu fucked uuuuup. Youfuckedup. Fucked. Up. You. Fucked. Up. Thou hast managest to get conceidited in a direction commonly known as up. It was at this moment that Kirby knew, he fucked up. Fuckkkkk. How many layers of screwed are you? Maybe five or six my now my dude. You are like a little baby, watch this... FUCC.

Reminds me a lot of Fred Durst:

 

[Bauul]

5 hours ago, geo said:

Here is the dictionary.com definition: happening in the opposite way to what is expected, and typically causing wry amusement because of this.

 

Here are some examples:

 - Someone is dying so you call an ambulance to save them. Then the ambulance hits and kills the very same person they were called to save.

 - Woman shakes up pepper spray to shoot it into the eyes of her cheating ex boyfriend... alas she has it pointed the wrong way and sprays herself.

 - Man walking across the street leaps out of the way to avoid a speeding car! The car thought it was going to hit him, so it swerved as the man jumped causing the car to still hit the man.

 

Anything in Alanis Morissette's "Ironic" song is unfortunate rather than ironic.

I might argue those examples aren't really ironic.  Generally if you have good intentions and things go bad, that's not what most people would describe as ironic.  That's just unfortunate.   Irony is more often a form of comeuppance, as in someone who undermines themself in the process of trying to undermine others, or get attempting to get themselves a shortcut to success.  The humour of the observer comes from a "serves them right" point of view.

 

In particular your second example isn't ironic, it's just a shame.  A different example might be: A woman suspects her boyfriend of cheating on her (even though he isn't).  In an attempt to prove that he is, she accidentally reveals that she herself is cheating, and the boyfriend dumps her.  

[geo]

3 hours ago, Bauul said:

I might argue those examples aren't really ironic.  Generally if you have good intentions and things go bad, that's not what most people would describe as ironic.  That's just unfortunate.   Irony is more often a form of comeuppance, as in someone who undermines themself in the process of trying to undermine others, or get attempting to get themselves a shortcut to success.  The humour of the observer comes from a "serves them right" point of view.

 

In particular your second example isn't ironic, it's just a shame.  A different example might be: A woman suspects her boyfriend of cheating on her (even though he isn't).  In an attempt to prove that he is, she accidentally reveals that she herself is cheating, and the boyfriend dumps her.  

I can argue those examples are ironic by definition alone. Here we are 2 people that could argue, but who are not.

 

Humor is also subjective.

Edited April 19, 2017 by geo

[Bauul]

17 minutes ago, geo said:

I can argue those examples are ironic by definition alone. Here is another by definition:

 - Man jumps into a pool of water from a great height. A mighty cannonball that would get anyone wet standing beside the pool, but there was no splash at all.

 

By your definition of good intentions and things go bad:

 - The ambulance in the previous set of examples exemplifies both your definition and the dictionary definition.

 

Humor is also subjective.

Oh absolutely, and irony is a pretty loose subject anyway.  And I agree with your ambulance example, although I might have added "turns out the guy wasn't actually going to die until the ambulance hit him" to make it really ironic.

 

Your example of the man jumping into the pool doesn't really seem ironic to me though, to be honest.  The outcome and intention needs to be rough opposites of each other, but in this case the outcome he wanted (wet bystanders) is extremely minor compared to the outcome that happened (man dying).  Irony needs a kind of karmic balance to it.  A man going to push someone else into a pool, but slips and fall in himself, is ironic because the intention (get someone else wet) is replaced with an opposite outcome (he gets wet himself).  

 

Poetic justice is a good way to describe it, although that only covers bad things happening as a result of attempting to avoid bad things, or cause bad things to happen to other, and not the other way around: good things happening as a result of attempting to avoid good things, or cause good things to happen to others.  Both are ironic though.

[geo]

You caught that before I updated it. Woops. Anyway, I bow out.

[Bauul]

Heh sorry, replied too quickly!

 

Forgive the long replies, I had a whole evening trying to explain this to a colleague recently.  She's from the midwest, if that explains anything. :D

[rehelekretep]

when something has a little bit/taste of iron in it

[mrthejoshmon]

To be honest, it was obvious you didn't understand irony because you're a big old bag of it that lacks self awareness.

 

Most irony either stems from self awareness or lack of self awareness, things that are done in irony have self awareness in the fact that they are doing such dumb things on purpose for the sake of humour/to make a point whilst ironic things not created out of ironic humour are simply something done/said by someone that naturally would stand against said something without the actor of said something being aware of the fact that they just contradicted their views/usual behavior.

 

Then again, irony only exists if someone else is there who can comprehend said irony.

Spoiler

The explaination was poor on purpose, ironically, ironically enough.

 

[dew]

On 4/18/2017 at 1:27 PM, Memfis said:

I've seen an English professor claiming that that Alanis Morissette song doesn't actually contain any examples of irony, is that true?

Not entirely, the "ten thousand spoons" verse should count as irony. At least if you encounter them all at once, like a crashed truck spill, or your grandmother's secret stash. If you keep finding them one by one, you should take it as an utensil-based twist on the Universe's warning not to travel to England with arioch, lest you end up as an absurd punchline to someone else's melodrama.