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KVELLER

Have you played Doom without secrets?

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I mean avoiding every single secret area, even if it's one of those that are almost impossible to miss. The resources get pretty scarce, and it forces you to be a little more mindful about your ammo.

 

If someone decides to do this with pistol starts, I wish them good luck...

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Actually, when I played Doom for the first time I didn't know I had to look for them so I managed to get to the end with absolutely 0 secrets. That was in January 1994.

 

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Just now, Gerardo194 said:

Thank you very much :-) you are a great help

Really though, did it help? I don't know all the terms either. But the way it seemed to me was that you actually answered your own question already. :-)

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I always play Doom searching for secrets. But playing without finding them is hard (because you know all the secrets and you're tempted to discover it no matter what :D), same as not killing.

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I don't remember most of the maps so I can probably be a good 'FDA' test dummy if you want. :P 

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Well, some of the maps I played recently had no ecrets to begin with, now that I think about it I guess that qualifies a "yes". Doesn't it?

 

I think when looking at "conventional" maps in the classic IWADs, I'd be hard pressed not to run into a secret just by way of habit. The difficult part is being able to tell what of the route actually is a secret. Not to mention that, if you know it's there, it's not a secret to you anymore, if that makes any sense.

 

IIRC the classic IWADS were designed to be doable without secrets. Not sure how much of this applies to ultimate doom e4, but e1 to e3 seem pretty tame without secrets.

 

I think what would ultimately keep me from doing a full 0% secrets run is that I'd miss out on the secret levels, which would be a shame, especially in regards to "doom I".

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I'm notoriously bad at finding secrets.  It's not unusual for me to reach the end of even an IWAD map and have 0% secrets.  I just don't see them, it's like a blindness.  

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24 minutes ago, Gerardo194 said:

When you say pistol starts, are you meaning of finishing the level with pistol only?? 

It means you begin each level with a fresh inventory with only your pistol and 50 bullets. Basically think of it as starting a new game and then IDCLEV'ing to the level in question. You can use whatever you want during the level but the next one must begin with the starting gear.

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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Well, some of the maps I played recently had no ecrets to begin with, now that I think about it I guess that qualifies a "yes". Doesn't it?

I guess, but I was thinking about the original IWADs.

 

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I think when looking at "conventional" maps in the classic IWADs, I'd be hard pressed not to run into a secret just by way of habit.

Yes, that's true. I ended up saving constantly in order to avoid that.

 

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

The difficult part is being able to tell what of the route actually is a secret.

The "A secret is revealed!" message in ZDoom helps a lot with that.

 

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Not to mention that, if you know it's there, it's not a secret to you anymore, if that makes any sense.

Yes, it's not a secret to the player, but technically it's still a sector with the "secret" flag.

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1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

Actually, when I played Doom for the first time I didn't know I had to look for them so I managed to get to the end with absolutely 0 secrets. That was in January 1994.

 

I managed to make some friends (around 15-17 years old) play Doom and the same happened to them. Actually, it was hard for them to even realize where did they have to go next.

 

Moder FPS games really affected them...

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37 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Really though, did it help? I don't know all the terms either. But the way it seemed to me was that you actually answered your own question already. :-)

Yes, it did!!! I was very fool to not having notice it lol

22 minutes ago, Nevander said:

It means you begin each level with a fresh inventory with only your pistol and 50 bullets. Basically think of it as starting a new game and then IDCLEV'ing to the level in question. You can use whatever you want during the level but the next one must begin with the starting gear.

Ahh, just like a demo... I have done that with Go 2 it level in UV, just for fun.

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4 minutes ago, Gerardo194 said:

Yes, it did!!! I was very fool to not having notice it lol

Ahh, just like a demo... I have done that with Go 2 it level in UV, just for fun.

Then try doing Go 2 It with using only the pistol for a real challenge :)

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32 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

The "A secret is revealed!" message in ZDoom helps a lot with that.

I am well aware, the problem is though, that the message appears when you're already "in". So in my case I'd have to restart the level every time I accidentally stumble across a secret that I am simply used to picking up along the way. It's force of habit, if you so will. Not to mention that some secrets are so obvious that it makes me wonder why they even have the secret tag to begin with.

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Some secrets are unavoidable, like the one in map 07, it's marked in the sector before touching the exit

 

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^yeah I guess that doesn't count then... IIRC there was a reason for that "secret". Not sure what it was, but somehow the reason was about maps having to have at least one secret to begin with. Maybe scifista42, or someone with an equal depth of knowledge could explain this a lot better.

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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I am well aware, the problem is though, that the message appears when you're already "in". So in my case I'd have to restart the level every time I accidentally stumble across a secret that I am simply used to picking up along the way. It's force of habit, if you so will. Not to mention that some secrets are so obvious that it makes me wonder why they even have the secret tag to begin with.

That's why I save constantly in those cases.

 

1 hour ago, leodoom85 said:

Some secrets are unavoidable, like the one in map 07, it's marked in the sector before touching the exit

 

Well, in those cases there's no choice. Anyways, that sector is marked as a secret just so the player can get all 100%s.

 

Getting a 0% secrets playthrough may be technically impossible, but the same happens trying to get 100% secrets.

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Just now, KVELLER said:

Getting a 0% secrets playthrough may be technically impossible, but the same happens trying to get 100% secrets.

Exactly. Having no secrets will give you 100% in the result

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1 hour ago, leodoom85 said:

Exactly. Having no secrets will give you 100% in the result

Was that sarcasm? I meant that you can't technically do a full 0% secrets playthrough because of stuff like in map07, and that you can't do a 100% secrets either because there are several levels in the IWADs with unreachable sectors with the secret tag.

 

It's kinda late, so I may not be understanding everything I read and/or writing properly.

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2 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

Was that sarcasm?

No, no quite. It translates to "If the player found 0 out of 0 secrets, the player technically found all secrets available", thus 100% secrets found. It's "counterintuitive logic", for lack of a better euphemism.

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3 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

Was that sarcasm? I meant that you can't technically do a full 0% secrets playthrough because of stuff like in map07, and that you can't do a 100% secrets either because there are several levels in the IWADs with unreachable sectors with the secret tag.

 

It's kinda late, so I may not be understanding everything I read and/or writing properly.

No, it wasn't sarcasm. Playing a map with 0 secrets will give you 100% no matter what

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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

No, no quite. It translates to "If the player found 0 out of 0 secrets, the player technically found all secrets available", thus 100% secrets found. It's "counterintuitive logic", for lack of a better euphemism.

 

1 hour ago, leodoom85 said:

No, it wasn't sarcasm. Playing a map with 0 secrets will give you 100% no matter what

If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I'm wrong) in the vanilla game Doom's "internal calculator" gets messed up when there's no secrets in the map, and it will give you 0% secrets. That's why map07 has a secret sector that appears to be useless.

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Like playing in an older sourceport...I don't know actually. But in newer sourceports, it will give you 100%, I'm sure of that.

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1 hour ago, leodoom85 said:

Like playing in an older sourceport...I don't know actually. But in newer sourceports, it will give you 100%, I'm sure of that.

Yes, it was a bug in the original source code.

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