Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Phade102

Experiment Zero V0.6 (MAJOR UPDATE)- Testers Requested

Recommended Posts

Update 25/06/17: Major update, Updates below.

Map01: Insertion - Completely retextured using CC4 Textures.

Map02: Aquaducts - Removed.

Map03: Technology Point - Now Map02. Completely retextured using CC4 Textuers.

Map03: Power Core now Avaliable!

 

 

WAD REQUIRES ZDOOM OR GZDOOM AND CC4-TEX.WAD

 

Experiment Zero is my first attempt at a megawad. I am going for a straightforward map design, a mix of vanilia with zdoom features (3d bridges, with slopes in later maps for outdoor areas.) This wad will not be any Ancient aliens, or any wad with amazingly beautiful maps that you could spend hours looking at. I'm focusing on gameplay more than anything.

 

While I am looking for feedback on all aspects, I would especially appreciate opinions on the map pacing and monster/item placements. If anyone can provide such, it would be appreciated.

 

V0.6 marks a major update to the wad, with old levels completely retextured and a whole new map that took a large amount of time to make and balance. Due to an issue uploading files via doomworld, the below link should work and let people use the wad file. if it does not work please let me know.

 

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0hB2WX58A_rS0tfSmFUOEJnXzA

 

 

Edited by Phade102

Share this post


Link to post

Alright, hey, first off—your map is in Hexen format I think, which renders in unplayable for PrBoom folks. Secondly, you use textures as flats which is also a G/Zdoom thing. People aren't going to want to play your map if they download it and it breaks in the port its designed to play in. The map itself looks nice but there's like a bajillion gameplay things I want to mention, so I might just record a playthrough with commentary and post it on here.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, dobu gabu maru said:

Alright, hey, first off—your map is in Hexen format I think, which renders in unplayable for PrBoom folks. Secondly, you use textures as flats which is also a G/Zdoom thing. People aren't going to want to play your map if they download it and it breaks in the port its designed to play in. The map itself looks nice but there's like a bajillion gameplay things I want to mention, so I might just record a playthrough with commentary and post it on here.

 

Oh gosh, thank you. Yes, it is in hexen format, thats the format I taught myself in. I guess i could try another format...

 

I'm also unsure what you meant about using textures as flats? I wasn't aware there was that much of a deal since I am mapping for gzdoom/zdoom, but I want to make it as accessible for everyone as possible.

 

All gameplay issues i'd appreciate hearing about, I was really proud of the map, but if its not a map people would enjoy playing, I'd like to know =)

Share this post


Link to post

Here's a ZDoom 2.8.1 demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fnqci8oioowyqbi/ExperimentZero_zd281_fda_benjogami.lmp?dl=1

 

Notes:

- Very generous with shells, and you'll see me pass up a few boxes of shells. Consider replacing the boxes with 4 of the 4-shell items, and spreading some of them into spaces that might be less obvious, so that players can be rewarded for being thorough, if they like.

- The soul sphere is a natural place for players to look for mandatory progression, so isn't very secrety.

- I like how the rocket launcher secret works, but by the time the player can access it, there's nothing left to kill (if it's intended for continuous play, I think it should be harder to find, or hopefully it'll be very helpful for the start of map 2 :P).

- Progression and fighting is very door-centric. Consider using some different ways of parsing out the space: one-way drops, additional areas that open when the player walks into a space, and even doors that simply stay open can all help create more interesting fight scenarios.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Phade102 said:

 

Oh gosh, thank you. Yes, it is in hexen format, thats the format I taught myself in. I guess i could try another format...

 

I'm also unsure what you meant about using textures as flats? I wasn't aware there was that much of a deal since I am mapping for gzdoom/zdoom, but I want to make it as accessible for everyone as possible.

 

All gameplay issues i'd appreciate hearing about, I was really proud of the map, but if its not a map people would enjoy playing, I'd like to know =)

You don't necessarily need to map in a different format, you just need to make sure that you are including the format you made the map in when you post it so people don't try to play it in the wrong port. Of you don't specify then people will likely assume it's Limit Removing or Boom format.

 

Also,in vanilla Doom flats are only used in floors and ceilings, and textures are only for walls. Just one of the weird quirks of the engine. It's just another part of needing to let people know it's meant for ZDoom compatible ports. 

Share this post


Link to post

Very good work with a strong atmosphere of Final Doom. I would really like to see a megawad in this style. This map is made in Hexen-format, maybe it would be worth taking a step away from the classical geometry and using GZDoom's possibilities? For example, slopes portals, polyobjects, diamic lighting ... Look closely at UDMF? But this, of course, you choose. In any case, for the first map this is very strong. I'm waiting for more works like this. Good luck in the future.

 

Doom_Font_Green_Arrow.png  First Demo Attempt GZDoom 2.4.0

 

In my collection:

 

Blue_3_5.png - Visuals (3 / 5)
Blue_3_5.png - Detailing (3 / 5)
Blue_3_5.png - Gameplay (3 / 5)
Blue_3_5.png - Atmosphere (3 / 5)
Orange_3_5.png - Difficulty (3 / 5)

 

Green_3_5.png - Overall Rating (3 / 5)

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you all for your comments! I will definitely tweak the map with the improvemetns and changes you have suggested (And i'm going to change the flats issue, pretty sure thats a rather simple fix.

 

As to Stormcatcher.77, you have no idea how happy your review of the map made me. a 3/5 is great, I'm glad you enjoyed it, and I definitely will be mapping more with a similar style I hope! Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post

Ports that are unable to deal with flats on walls are typically ports that are unable to load Hexen format maps at all, so better don't spend any effort on fixing the flats unless you intend to convert the map to Doom format as well.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, scifista42 said:

Ports that are unable to deal with flats on walls are typically ports that are unable to load Hexen format maps at all, so better don't spend any effort on fixing the flats unless you intend to convert the map to Doom format as well.

I see, I would much prefer to remain with the hexen format and just map exclusively for zdoom/gzdoom.

 

I'm also wondering if someone can take my wad and add the waterfall animated texture from Tnt into it. I've tried and I cant figure it out. its not urgent, and I dont honestly expect anyone to do it, its more so just for convienence.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Phade102 said:

I see, I would much prefer to remain with the hexen format and just map exclusively for zdoom/gzdoom.

This is a very poor way of thinking unless you're going to start using the features that Storm.Catcher suggests. There's literally no reason why your map can't be limit removing compatible, and stating that your wad is only for the Zdoom family is going to turn off a lot of people that like to play in Boom. Flats are among the easiest graphics to add, so I'd strongly suggest learning to map in Doom/Boom format if you aim to make (standard) Doom maps.

Share this post


Link to post

If you want to keep your map a (G)ZDoom exclusive, that's absolutely fine. However, it's worth knowing that most people presume a ZDoom map will make use of ZDoom features, whereas other than texture selection yours doesn't. If you're aiming for a classic Doom feel, you'd be better served making it in a suitably compatible format.

 

It will be a bit of work on your behalf, but shouldn't be too bad. If, other than using flats as textures, you genuinely haven't used any other advanced features, I would suggest this:

 

Load your map, and in Sector mode select absolutely everything (make sure Things sync is on). Ctrl-C.

 

Start a new map, and presuming you're using the Doom 2 IWAD, select "Doom 2 (Doom format)" (or words to that effect, I can't remember the exact wording). Ctrl-V and place your map.

 

Instantly any place you used a texture on a floor or ceiling will display an error, and likely any linedef actions (switches, triplines etc.) will all break. Go through and fix everything (which won't be too bad) and presuming you haven't used any other ZDoom specific features you should have a nice limit-removing compatible wad!

 

(You may need to go into Game Configuration and set up the map format if you haven't already in order to use it).

Edited by Bauul

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, dobu gabu maru said:

This is a very poor way of thinking unless you're going to start using the features that Storm.Catcher suggests. There's literally no reason why your map can't be limit removing compatible, and stating that your wad is only for the Zdoom family is going to turn off a lot of people that like to play in Boom. Flats are among the easiest graphics to add, so I'd strongly suggest learning to map in Doom/Boom format if you aim to make (standard) Doom maps.

Well, i'm already using mapspots, which from what i've seen is zdoom exclusive. and I plan on using 3d floors and such later. I mean, I dont wish to turn anyone off from my wad, I've never mapped for boom before (I have no idea what boom is) but it seemed to me that mapping for just doom 2 was rather...limiting. I'm used to all the linedef functions for hexen.

 

Please understand this isn't me being selfish or anything, its not like I dont want to map for everyone, but it took me so long to get used to mapping for hexen format, that learning different linedef commands and such is very intimidating. I mean, I know you cant use mapspots and such in vanillia, but I do plan on designing in vanillia style. I'm not sure what to do, It took me ages to learn to map as it is.

Edited by Phade102 : Clarification

Share this post


Link to post

Mapping for Boom and Limit-Removing is some of the most simple mapping you can do and both are immensely powerful to one with a good imagination.

 

As said by others, when people see a map for an advanced port they expect more. As unfortunate as it is and unpleasant to think about, mappers/modders compete with one-another over the time of players; what maps/mods you directly compete with are determined by the source port you choose, but you should absolutely try to match the standards set by other maps in the category you choose to map for.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Fonze said:

Mapping for Boom and Limit-Removing is some of the most simple mapping you can do and both are immensely powerful to one with a good imagination.

 

As said by others, when people see a map for an advanced port they expect more. As unfortunate as it is and unpleasant to think about, mappers/modders compete with one-another over the time of players; what maps/mods you directly compete with are determined by the source port you choose, but you should absolutely try to match the standards set by other maps in the category you choose to map for.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I'm going to see about porting the map across to vanillia, I just need to figure out whats going to have to be changed or reworked, and thats very intimidating. I know spawning monsters in is nowhere near as easy as it is in zdoom.

Share this post


Link to post

So after looking into the boom format, it seems rather easy. however, mapspots are non existant, which means that I will have to figure out another way to teleport monsters in. can anyone suggest the best way to do that? i've seen people use the like, teleport boxes outside the map, that monsters are placed in and then teleported in. is that the best way to do so?

Share this post


Link to post

Vanilla specifically can be tricky, due to its much wider assortment of limitations, including too much detail leading to crashes. Limit-removing (which is basically vanilla with the pesky limits raised high enough to be next-to removed) would likely be an easier place to start, though Boom would give you a many more degrees of freedom within your mechanics. But imagination is a huge part of making interesting mechanics, so these formats are all much less limited than they may seem. 

 

Good luck as you learn :)

 

For your question, yes, mapspots are not present, nor can you "spawn" enemies. But through the use of those monster closets you mentioned, you can accomplish the same thing. Only difference, ultimately, is in the monster count displayed.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Fonze said:

Vanilla specifically can be tricky, due to its much wider assortment of limitations, including too much detail leading to crashes. Limit-removing (which is basically vanilla with the pesky limits raised high enough to be next-to removed) would likely be an easier place to start, though Boom would give you a many more degrees of freedom within your mechanics. But imagination is a huge part of making interesting mechanics, so these formats are all much less limited than they may seem. 

 

Good luck as you learn :)

I'm going to challenge myself to Boom. before I do so I just need to figure out the best way to teleport monsters in, since my first map has a room that uses such things.

 

I feel the biggest challenge would be making a map designed for vanillia doom2.exe (Chocolate doom, I think?) since it has so much more restrictions and you have to be so careful. But boom, I can do.

Share this post


Link to post

The biggest difference between Hexen format and Doom/Boom format is that in Hexen format, line effects and line triggers are decoupled. In Doom or Boom, they're tied. Sometimes, you'll want a combination of trigger and effect and it just won't exist (though it's mostly true for Doom; Boom added several linetypes to get most missing combos). The second biggest difference is that Hexen line specials are parametered: if you want a fast door, you make a door like usual, and you just give it a faster move speed. There are no parameters in Doom/Boom, so you'll have to use what's available. Finally, the third thing is that some of the effects that exist in Hexen format are simply not available in Doom/Boom format. The biggest is of course anything to do with ACS (instead, with Boom, you have to use a Rube Goldbergesque system of putting voodoo dolls on conveyor belts, and that means you can only "script" effects that have a walkover trigger available) but there are many more simpler things that are possible in Hexen and not in Boom. Finally, in Hexen format you can put specials on things, too, so it's easy to have an action happen when you pick up an object or kill a monster without even needing a script. In Boom, you can't.

Share this post


Link to post
35 minutes ago, Gez said:

The biggest difference between Hexen format and Doom/Boom format is that in Hexen format, line effects and line triggers are decoupled. In Doom or Boom, they're tied. Sometimes, you'll want a combination of trigger and effect and it just won't exist (though it's mostly true for Doom; Boom added several linetypes to get most missing combos). The second biggest difference is that Hexen line specials are parametered: if you want a fast door, you make a door like usual, and you just give it a faster move speed. There are no parameters in Doom/Boom, so you'll have to use what's available. Finally, the third thing is that some of the effects that exist in Hexen format are simply not available in Doom/Boom format. The biggest is of course anything to do with ACS (instead, with Boom, you have to use a Rube Goldbergesque system of putting voodoo dolls on conveyor belts, and that means you can only "script" effects that have a walkover trigger available) but there are many more simpler things that are possible in Hexen and not in Boom. Finally, in Hexen format you can put specials on things, too, so it's easy to have an action happen when you pick up an object or kill a monster without even needing a script. In Boom, you can't.

After saying all that, I feel perhaps I should stick with zdoom. It seems far more accesible, and it seems I AM using some of the features, even if i'm not mapping the levels to use slopes and such. Thank you Gez.

Share this post


Link to post

The format you choose is up to you; don't feel pressured by my words, but some of that info is flat out incorrect. Boom offers generalized linedef actions which cover the first and second points Gez mentioned. You do lose ACS with Boom, but in all honesty most things lost can still be worked around and/or flat-out acheived without it.

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Fonze said:

The format you choose is up to you; don't feel pressured by my words, but some of that info is flat out incorrect. Boom offers generalized linedef actions which cover the first and second points Gez mentioned. You do lose ACS with Boom, but in all honesty most things lost can still be worked around and/or flat-out acheived without it.

I am thinking...for now, while I practice mapping and such, i'm going to build using the format i'm used to. its far easier for me. I dont plan on just stopping after this, and then when I do another set of levels, ill do it from scratch with boom. I hope I still get a decent amount of people wanting to play, but ultimately, I'm mapping for myself.

Share this post


Link to post

Not bad for a first potential megawad.  This map was pretty easy for me and had way too many shell boxes around.  There are some grate texture bleeding in one of the outside areas(the texture is bleeding through the floor).  Also your map exit seems to be very misleading as your map ends very abruptly and with no warning, exits that end with potentially having another map beginning at the same spot is cool but please label the exit so people don't accidentally end the map before trying to backtrack for secrets and other reasons.

I would suggest putting doors in some sort of hallway rather than a door flush on a wall because imo it looks kind of weird and very noobish.

Other than that I think your off to a good start.

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Unholypimp1n said:

Not bad for a first potential megawad.  This map was pretty easy for me and had way too many shell boxes around.  There are some grate texture bleeding in one of the outside areas(the texture is bleeding through the floor).

I would suggest putting doors in some sort of hallway rather than a door flush on a wall because imo it looks kind of weird and very noobish.

Other than that I think your off to a good start.

Hi Unholypimp1n, thanks for your review.

 

-I have updated the map already, changing most of the shell boxes for sets of 8-12 shells. I found shotgun ammo to be much more tight with this, and had to use the chaingun for a bit.

-I'm unsure where this grate texture issue is, but I will take a look. (Edit: I found the texture, but I'm unsure whats causing it. any ideas? it only seems to occur in zdoom.)

-I have attempted to prevent doors being flush on a wall, because I agree it looks really noobish and I dislike doing it my self.

 

Thank you for your review!

Share this post


Link to post

I did a FDA in GZDoom 2.4 last night (so it won't play back with a changed version of the wad). Was ignoring secrets and playing very aggressively, so exits in 4:39 with 98% kills and 0% secrets. Not sure how it plays conventionally, but encounters bled into each other nicely when played aggressively and monsters were bypassed. Those two early cacodemons could path around surprisingly well for example. 

 

The biggest criticism is that the map is packed with doors. There are rooms with like five doors in them. Many of these aren't strictly necessary and they get in the way of flow and impede lines of sight and all that good stuff. Also a good 45 seconds of my playthrough was spent lost because I missed one door that was important for progression (and was openable) because it was the same texture as all the other doors that didn't open. One useful design principle is that the player should be able to tell at a glance which map elements can be interacted with and which can't (apart from secrets ofc), so be careful about things like that. I see it as a problem that it's not possible in this map -- it leads to a lot of unnecessary humping. 

 

Edited by rdwpa

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

I did a FDA in GZDoom 2.4 last night (so it won't play back with a changed version of the wad). Was ignoring secrets and playing very aggressively, so exits in 4:39 with 98% kills and 0% secrets. Not sure how it plays conventionally, but encounters bled into each other nicely when played aggressively and monsters were bypassed. Those two early cacodemons could path around surprisingly well for example. 

 

The biggest criticism is that the map is packed with doors. There are rooms with like five doors in them. Many of these aren't strictly necessary and they get in the way of flow and impede lines of sight and all that good stuff. Also a good 45 seconds of my playthrough was spent lost because I missed one door that was important for progression (and was openable) because it was the same texture as all the other doors that didn't open. One useful design principle is that the player should be able to tell at a glance which map elements can be interacted with and which can't (apart from secrets ofc), so be careful about things like that. I see it as a problem that it's not possible in this map -- it leads to a lot of unnecessary humping. 

 

Thank you rdwpa. I will definitely be addressing the door issue. I'm unsure how i'm going to go about that at this moment, but i've already started on map02 and I definitely do not have those door issues there.

Share this post


Link to post

Level design (in my opinion) is almost well. But I see no sense in using hexen format without hexen features. It makes wad unplayable on Boom-only-compatible ports and doesn't bring anything special. I know - GZDoom is surely most popular port, but somebody likes classic PrBoom or MBF ;)...

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, pan_te said:

Level design (in my opinion) is almost well. But I see no sense in using hexen format without hexen features. It makes wad unplayable on Boom-only-compatible ports and doesn't bring anything special. I know - GZDoom is surely most popular port, but somebody likes classic PrBoom or MBF ;)...

My wad does use zdoom features, such as 3d floors, and I will be using slopes and I am actively using mapspots. That is why I use the hexen format, as well as the fact it is the format I learnt to level in. I understand that I am isolating my wad from the prboom crowd, and I am sorry about that, but at the moment I am not interested in changing the format, since later on I will also be adding some new monsters to mix things up a bit.

 

Thank you for your comments though, I do appreciate them.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Phade102 said:

My wad does use zdoom features, such as 3d floors, and I will be using slopes and I am actively using mapspots. That is why I use the hexen format, as well as the fact it is the format I learnt to level in. I understand that I am isolating my wad from the prboom crowd, and I am sorry about that, but at the moment I am not interested in changing the format, since later on I will also be adding some new monsters to mix things up a bit.

 

Thank you for your comments though, I do appreciate them.

I see. Sounds like a nice mod in the future.
Anyway, I didn't even know that Doom in Hexen supports 3D Floors :D.

But.. if you want use strict ZDoom features, why don't you use UDMF ;)?

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, pan_te said:

I see. Sounds like a nice mod in the future.
Anyway, I didn't even know that Doom in Hexen supports 3D Floors :D.

But.. if you want use strict ZDoom features, why don't you use UDMF ;)?

Mainly due to the fact i'm rather new to mapping and I learnt in hexen format. UDMF adds a lot of features that are new to me, do I'd rather take some time to learn it and use it for my next wad.

 

Hexen itself utilized 3d floors and slopes pretty well.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×