Experiment Zero V0.6 (MAJOR UPDATE)- Testers Requested

[pan_te]

7 minutes ago, Phade102 said:

Mainly due to the fact i'm rather new to mapping and I learnt in hexen format. UDMF adds a lot of features that are new to me, do I'd rather take some time to learn it and use it for my next wad.

You're right. Today is so difficult to develop PWAD, which going to work on all source ports. There's too many source ports, level formats. Focus on one, specific is best option for start.

[Gez]

Technically you can even use slopes and 3D floors in the Doom format (though you don't have as much flexibility of course).

[pan_te]

1 minute ago, Gez said:

Technically you can even use slopes and 3D floors in the Doom format (though you don't have as much flexibility of course).

You mean Vanilia? Or Boom?

[Gez]

Source ports such as Doom Legacy or EDGE added 3D floors without changing the map format. GZDoom can load Legacy and EDGE maps and so it interprets their 3D floor specials correctly. (Well, except for a weird fog effect from Legacy, which isn't handled.) Even though PrBoom+ could technically load the map, it wouldn't support the 3D floor and slope effects, however, so the map would still require GZDoom.

[pan_te]

1 minute ago, Gez said:

Source ports such as Doom Legacy or EDGE added 3D floors without changing the map format. GZDoom can load Legacy and EDGE maps and so it interprets their 3D floor specials correctly. (Well, except for a weird fog effect from Legacy, which isn't handled.) Even though PrBoom+ could technically load the map, it wouldn't support the 3D floor and slope effects, however, so the map would still require GZDoom.

Ahh.. now I know what are you talking about ;). I remember line special 281 in Legacy.

I think the best way is no confusing anymore. Just let Phade102 make his own WAD ;).

[Phade102]

7 hours ago, pan_te said:

Ahh.. now I know what are you talking about ;). I remember line special 281 in Legacy.

I think the best way is no confusing anymore. Just let Phade102 make his own WAD ;).

Sadly it looks like as of now, nobody is really interested in testing the map haha.

[Misty]

1 minute ago, Phade102 said:

Sadly it looks like as of now, nobody is really interested in testing the map haha.

I'll test your map after exam. Don't worry. Maybe I could record video for your wad if you want.

[dobu gabu maru]

17 minutes ago, Phade102 said:

Sadly it looks like as of now, nobody is really interested in testing the map haha.

Unless your name carries a lot of weight behind it, you're unlikely to stumble upon people that will download and provide feedback for single map updates. This is probably the last time I'll offer any sort of feedback before you have a solid episode/beta released, and even then I'll probably see the "Zdoom" requirement and never get around to playing it.

 

So this map is a lot better than your first—you're clearly thinking more about encounters, how to trap the player, and how to make the combat more engaging. The drop down into the water area with the demons and hell knights near the end is the best fight thus far, and plays pretty well due to the lack of space the player has to move around there. You also stick with a cohesive theme throughout the map which is always nice, and all the lights/detail you add are great additions. You're definitely a mapper that shows promise. Here's some of my critiques:

 

- Door and switch trimming looks a lot more aesthetically pleasing set at least 8 units into the wall. This doesn't mean that you always need to abide by this rule, but there's not a lot you can do with the 4 pixels you currently use, which generally makes the door borders somewhat dull.

 

- The teleport that leads the player to the exit is a dick move. The player jumps in, a sergeant shoots them to the left while an HK slaps them to the right, so they're immediately going to activate the nearest door and accidentally exit the level. Don't do that.

 

- You can get stuck if you jump into the water encounter mentioned above and then loop back around to it, since you use un-openable bars that prevent the player from passing (you don't even need to do that since it's a one-way drop!)

 

- You use a few pinkies too many at the very start—shotgun-based combat against solely pinkies is really dull and tiresome.

 

And here's two tips for future maps:

 

- Try to make your layouts more nonlinear. You can make linear maps if that's what you're aiming for, but generally the more freedom you give the player, the happier they'll be. There are some parts here and there that echo a greater adventure, but it's pretty by-the-books stuff thus far.

 

- Maybe not aim for a megawad? It's totally your call to make, but I think by the time you get to making MAP10 you'll realize that these first few maps are kinda noobish/amateur by comparison, and you'll be tempted to change or update them, which just takes even more time (and it'll probably happen to you again when you reach MAP20, MAP30, etc.) So far the project is neat but it's not anything extraordinary, so I don't know how many people would crave a whole 32 map set like this. Again, you're the boss of your creative vision—not me—but you might find it more gratifying to finish a smaller set and get feedback for that.

[baja blast rd.]

13 minutes ago, dobu gabu maru said:

The drop down into the water area with the demons and hell knights near the end is the best fight thus far, and plays pretty well due to the lack of space the player has to move around there.

Yeah, I agree with this. Fun fight. I also liked that you were willing to use a couple of traps (particularly with chaingunners) designed to threaten the player's life, not a given in maps of this difficulty. It makes things more exciting. 

 

I noticed a few traps that are mistimed: You have a popup and spawn cacodemon that are very likely to appear directly in the player's face, if they simply are running forward when they cross the trigger line. Monsters can attack immediately so that would be unavoidable damage. The sandwich bar trap (sounds tasty) with lost souls can be 'escaped' accidentally by just running forward through that hallway. 

 

In my playthrough, I found the secret SSG and berserk, but a lot of the action seems like it would be boring with just the single shotgun and chaingun, as dobu experienced. I'd probably make the berserk a freebie and replace the early secret one with a green armor. Much of the map is tailored to berserk action (pinkies, HKs, etc.) and would be dull without it. Secret weapons should make the action more fun, but combat shouldn't be boring without them. 

 

[Phade102]

10 minutes ago, dobu gabu maru said:

Unless your name carries a lot of weight behind it, you're unlikely to stumble upon people that will download and provide feedback for single map updates. This is probably the last time I'll offer any sort of feedback before you have a solid episode/beta released, and even then I'll probably see the "Zdoom" requirement and never get around to playing it.

 

So this map is a lot better than your first—you're clearly thinking more about encounters, how to trap the player, and how to make the combat more engaging. The drop down into the water area with the demons and hell knights near the end is the best fight thus far, and plays pretty well due to the lack of space the player has to move around there. You also stick with a cohesive theme throughout the map which is always nice, and all the lights/detail you add are great additions. You're definitely a mapper that shows promise. Here's some of my critiques:

 

- Door and switch trimming looks a lot more aesthetically pleasing set at least 8 units into the wall. This doesn't mean that you always need to abide by this rule, but there's not a lot you can do with the 4 pixels you currently use, which generally makes the door borders somewhat dull.

 

- The teleport that leads the player to the exit is a dick move. The player jumps in, a sergeant shoots them to the left while an HK slaps them to the right, so they're immediately going to activate the nearest door and accidentally exit the level. Don't do that.

 

- You can get stuck if you jump into the water encounter mentioned above and then loop back around to it, since you use un-openable bars that prevent the player from passing (you don't even need to do that since it's a one-way drop!)

 

- You use a few pinkies too many at the very start—shotgun-based combat against solely pinkies is really dull and tiresome.

 

And here's two tips for future maps:

 

- Try to make your layouts more nonlinear. You can make linear maps if that's what you're aiming for, but generally the more freedom you give the player, the happier they'll be. There are some parts here and there that echo a greater adventure, but it's pretty by-the-books stuff thus far.

 

- Maybe not aim for a megawad? It's totally your call to make, but I think by the time you get to making MAP10 you'll realize that these first few maps are kinda noobish/amateur by comparison, and you'll be tempted to change or update them, which just takes even more time (and it'll probably happen to you again when you reach MAP20, MAP30, etc.) So far the project is neat but it's not anything extraordinary, so I don't know how many people would crave a whole 32 map set like this. Again, you're the boss of your creative vision—not me—but you might find it more gratifying to finish a smaller set and get feedback for that.

Thank you for your critque, and I understand. i'm going to probably do a megawad, but I'll split it into sections. the wad is more for me to evolve as I go along, so once I get to the point where I can say "I think i can do better on these older maps" Ill leave the wad, release it as is (With the levels complete, of course) and then go back and start again.

 

However, I am curious what you mean by the teleporter issue? The way the map was laid out, there should be NO enemies by the time you go into that teleporter. like, the hell knight in the teleporter room is the last enemy of the map whenever I played through it. Could you clarify a bit, because if theres some way you're skipping monsters I'll need to take a look at it.

 

The one way drop will be fixed. The bars were there so you couldn't just snipe the enemies in the drop, but I realized on my last playthrough last night that thats just another stratergy people can use. I shouldn't limit people like that and hold their hand through the map.

 

Thank you for stating I show promise though. thats high praise and I really appreciate it. I still have a lot to learn, but i'm going to keep going. my next map idea is vastly different, but it should fit into the theme.

[Phade102]

2 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Yeah, I agree with this. Fun fight. I also liked that you were willing to use at least a couple of traps (particularly with chaingunners) that seemed like they were designed to at least threaten the player's life, which is not a given in maps of this difficulty and generally makes things more exciting. 

 

I noticed a few traps that are mistimed. You have a popup and spawn cacodemon that are very likely to appear directly in the player's face, if they simply are running forward when they cross the trigger line. The sandwich bar trap (sounds tasty) with lost souls can be 'escaped' accidentally by just running forward through that hallway. 

 

In my playthrough I found the secret SSG and berserk, but a lot of the action in this map seems like it would be boring with just the single shotgun and chaingun, and it seems like dobu experienced some of that. I'd consider making the berserk a freebie and replacing the early secret one with a green armor. Much of the map is tailored to berserk action (pinkies, HKs, etc.) and would be dull without it. Secret weapons should make the action more fun, but the fights shouldn't be boring without them. 

I couldn't agree with you more about the beserk pack. Originally it was even more boring, since you didnt get the chaingun until halfway through the map, but I was getting frustrated with just relying on a shotgun. I think I'll do as you suggested and make the beserk pack a freebie. it does make the map much more fun, and i might even add a chainsaw.

 

As to the Cacodemon trap you mentioned, I do agree. it does jump up in your face, and I think I suffered a bit of mappers knowledge. I KNEW it was going to happeen, so I was aware of it, but I need to realize that other people playing my map wont have the time to react to something like that. Both caco traps will be tweaked to make them a bit less in your face, but still provide a challenge.

 

I didn't experience what you did with the lost souls trap, but i'll admit I didnt really try. I believe I know a way to fix it, and will do so in the next update. Thank you so very much for your review, and I apologise for being a bit pushy about getting people to review my maps, I just like to know what i'm doing right/wrong.

 

(As to Haruka, review the map at your leisure =D I cant figure out how to work demos, but if you can tell me how I'd love to see it!)

[dobu gabu maru]

13 minutes ago, Phade102 said:

However, I am curious what you mean by the teleporter issue?

I played in Zdoom and this wasn't a bridge or anything, letting me drop down there to essentially finish the level. Never got the yellow key.

[Phade102]

3 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

I played in Zdoom and this wasn't a bridge or anything, letting me drop down there to essentially finish the level. Never got the yellow key.

Really? I see, thats a major bug ill have to look at! i tested it in zdoom and it worked just fine for me! I apologise for that Dobu, I assure you that is not intended

[pan_te]

I walked behind elevator and get stuck when it raised on MAP02.

 

5 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

I played in Zdoom and this wasn't a bridge or anything, letting me drop down there to essentially finish the level. Never got the yellow key.

I think it's compatibility options issue. I tested in ZDoom 2.8.1 and it works.

Edited May 5, 2017 by pan_te

[Phade102]

41 minutes ago, pan_te said:

I walked behind elevator and get stuck when it raised on MAP02.

 

I think it's compatibility options issue. I tested in ZDoom 2.8.1 and it works.

Ah so its nothing I can fix? Okay. Also about the elevator...THANK YOU. I forgot to do that side, and a few others which will be fixed for the next build. I apologise for that.

[Misty]

First of all,I'm sorry for skipping some parts of your level. I just got lost and couldn't figure out where to go. And second,I used music replacer,because I'm tired of hearing "running from evil" even if this track is masterpiece. Video is unlisted,so nobody won't reach this without link. 
 

 

[Phade102]

8 minutes ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

First of all,I'm sorry for skipping some parts of your level. I just got lost and couldn't figure out where to go. And second,I used music replacer,because I'm tired of hearing "running from evil" even if this track is masterpiece. Video is unlisted,so nobody won't reach this without link. 
 

 

Ultimately I just want you to play the level how you feel you can. The music isnt the defining part of my levels. I hate level 1 and 2s music for example. Thank you for playing it I hope you enjoyed!

 

Edit: I also assume you played it on HMP or lower, which I actually appreciate more because I didnt test the lower difficulties. I only tested UV.

I also found your video helped me notice a MASSIVE flaw on the map, which is theres simply not enough markers to direct you where to go. for example, after you hit the switch at the red key door, you're meant to go down into the sewage, but since I didnt make that  clear at ALL, you didnt do it. I understand why you skipped it, the next update will have better markings. Also, the yellow key area is kind of vague, you were lucky to figure to open the door, but i'll be marking that next update too. Ultimately, I am sorry you didn't have the optimal experience with the map Haruko, next time I will do better.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Phade102

[leodoom85]

3 minutes ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

First of all,I'm sorry for skipping some parts of your level. I just got lost and couldn't figure out where to go. And second,I used music replacer,because I'm tired of hearing "running from evil" even if this track is masterpiece. Video is unlisted,so nobody won't reach this without link. 

 

For the music, you can try Jimmy's Jukebox too ;)

[leodoom85]

@Phade102 I should try your maps too to give a short review of it...it looks interesting, now that I'm watching MysteriousHaruko's video...

[Phade102]

4 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

@Phade102 I should try your maps too to give a short review of it...it looks interesting, now that I'm watching MysteriousHaruko's video...

You are more than welcome, however I recommend using the automap, as from what Haruko's video reveals especially of map 2, theres a few areas where I dont give enough direction.

 

Its actually really enjoyed me that I messed up like that so badly...

[leodoom85]

Then for that, you should give an indication, like a monster or some decoration to guide the player :)

[Phade102]

1 minute ago, leodoom85 said:

Then for that, you should give an indication, like a monster or some decoration to guide the player :)

I will be doing that. If you are willing to wait until tommmorow to play the map, I will fix the indicators to make it more clear. but if not, its all good, just remember there is NO jumping required in the map. I will be fixing the map tonight, I just haven't had time to do much today.

[Misty]

19 minutes ago, Phade102 said:

Ultimately I just want you to play the level how you feel you can. The music isnt the defining part of my levels. I hate level 1 and 2s music for example. Thank you for playing it I hope you enjoyed!

 

Edit: I also assume you played it on HMP or lower, which I actually appreciate more because I didnt test the lower difficulties. I only tested UV.

I also found your video helped me notice a MASSIVE flaw on the map, which is theres simply not enough markers to direct you where to go. for example, after you hit the switch at the red key door, you're meant to go down into the sewage, but since I didnt make that  clear at ALL, you didnt do it. I understand why you skipped it, the next update will have better markings. Also, the yellow key area is kind of vague, you were lucky to figure to open the door, but i'll be marking that next update too. Ultimately, I am sorry you didn't have the optimal experience with the map Haruko, next time I will do better.

Don't worry. Also spectre is in water area is stucked in map 01 near lift. Just move these pilliars a bit. And in trap with shotgunners and cacodemon,I would replace cacodemon in something else. Also,one baron of hell in map 02 would be great,maybe near end. Put backbag in map02 too,but not as secret but as reward. 

[leodoom85]

2 minutes ago, Phade102 said:

I will be doing that. If you are willing to wait until tommmorow to play the map, I will fix the indicators to make it more clear. but if not, its all good, just remember there is NO jumping required in the map. I will be fixing the map tonight, I just haven't had time to do much today.

I'll test in Zandro and I'll disable the jump :). Don't worry about that

[Phade102]

17 minutes ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

Don't worry. Also spectre is in water area is stucked in map 01 near lift. Just move these pilliars a bit. And in trap with shotgunners and cacodemon,I would replace cacodemon in something else. Also,one baron of hell in map 02 would be great,maybe near end. Put backbag in map02 too,but not as secret but as reward. 

Yeah, from Map02 onwards there will be a backpack, either as a secret or as a reward, since each map is meant to be possible from a pistol start. I will also see about replacing that cacodemon, it gets stuck quite often haha.

[leodoom85]

Finished the maps, quite a lot of fun. The automap secret in map 02 helps a LOT. Same as the megaarmor and the super shotty. Almost got munched by those HK at my ending part in map 02. I'll post an unlisted video of my gameplay.

[BigDickBzzrak]

Recorded a demo in ZDoom 2.8.1.

At some point I remembered that you can use "chat" in ZDoom even in single-player, so I've decided to add my Extremely Valuable Commentary. So it's as if you were watching Aquarius199 or someone like him. :]

Overall 9/10, good maps. I've mentioned a few flaws in the demo. Also I couldn't find the red key on map02 so I cheated to get it. Sorry, but I don't have all day to search a red key. :[

Also there are MANY doors that open from only one side and doors that can and should be removed.

ex0-fda-bzzrak.zip

 

(how to play the demo: "zdoom.EXE -file experimentzero.wad -iwad doom2.wad -playdemo ex0-fda-bzzrak.lmp")

[Phade102]

1 minute ago, bzzrak said:

Recorded in ZDoom 2.8.1.

At some point I remembered that you can use "chat" in ZDoom even in single-player, so I've decided to add my Extremely Valuable Commentary. So it's as if you were watching Aquarius199 or someone like him. :]

Overall 9/10, good maps. I've mentioned a few flaws in the demo. Also I couldn't find the red key on map02 so I cheated to get it. Sorry, but I don't have all day to search a red key. :[

Also there are MANY doors that open from only one side and doors that can and should be removed.

ex0-fda-bzzrak.zip

yeah i'm pretty sure you suffered the same issue as Haruko did. It'll be fixed in the next release, but i'm glad you enjoyed it!

[leodoom85]

15 minutes ago, bzzrak said:

Recorded a demo in ZDoom 2.8.1.

At some point I remembered that you can use "chat" in ZDoom even in single-player, so I've decided to add my Extremely Valuable Commentary. So it's as if you were watching Aquarius199 or someone like him. :]

Overall 9/10, good maps. I've mentioned a few flaws in the demo. Also I couldn't find the red key on map02 so I cheated to get it. Sorry, but I don't have all day to search a red key. :[

Also there are MANY doors that open from only one side and doors that can and should be removed.

ex0-fda-bzzrak.zip

 

(how to play the demo: "zdoom.EXE -file experimentzero.wad -iwad doom2.wad -playdemo ex0-fda-bzzrak.lmp")

You didn't found the means to get the red key?. I did picked up the red and yellow key...

[Phade102]

V0.3 released (download in main post) with bugfixes and spawn tweaks for map02. Nothing major, just easier to find the areas the yellow key gives you access to.