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Kapanyo

[VANILLA] How to make a new kind of 3D floor! (Projected flats? I dunno what to call it lol)

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In Doom: The Mars Missions, there's a 3D platform and you can walk on it. You can also see under it, but it's not meant for the player to walk under it. 

 

I also saw a similar trick elsewhere and it could be used to do 3D windows through which you could see the sky. The window was over a corridor, but you could still walk there. 

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Very cool. I've seen (and used) this type of effect before but never considered the possibility of having both the top and the bottom flats being visible, so thanks for this!

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8 hours ago, axdoomer said:

In Doom: The Mars Missions, there's a 3D platform and you can walk on it. You can also see under it, but it's not meant for the player to walk under it. 

 

I also saw a similar trick elsewhere and it could be used to do 3D windows through which you could see the sky. The window was over a corridor, but you could still walk there. 

Oh, right! I haven't played the Mars Missions, but now I guess I'll have to c:

 

As for the second effect, I don't know if it's the same instance you're referring to, but Gothic DM uses a technique to achieve that effect. The difference is that it uses multiple midtextures to hide the gap on the ceiling.

I would link the example presented by Doomworld's editing pages, but since the Forum update it seems the page has been lost :c

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Sadly you didn't include the map to check it out within the game, so I cannot tell which effect precisely this is. But since you say that GZDoom can handle it but GlBoom probably not, is this in any way related to how the bridge is done in the first level of BTSX E1?

 

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1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

Sadly you didn't include the map to check it out within the game, so I cannot tell which effect precisely this is. But since you say that GZDoom can handle it but GlBoom probably not, is this in any way related to how the bridge is done in the first level of BTSX E1?

 

I'm not sure, but I'm fairly sure that takes a different approach, as this method produces the effect from walls, and the bridge in BTSX seems to be independent. An example WAD should be uploaded soon!

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This editing trick is ancient. I'd like to link you to the old Doomworld Editing tutorials, except @Linguica seems to have broken it during the transition. It's called "fake 3D bridge" but is more commonly known as the "Mordeth bridge".

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That is incorrect, because the Mordeth bridge works by not allowing you to view the top of the bridge while you're not on it. If you could, the flat would bleed towards you nonsensically.

 

This trick allows you to create platforms which display a flat on both the top and bottom without any visual errors (depending on how you implement it).

 

However, it makes sense that one would confuse the two, as they both revolve around using flats in weird ways.

Edited by Kapanyo

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4 hours ago, Kapanyo said:

I'm not sure, but I'm fairly sure that takes a different approach, as this method produces the effect from walls, and the bridge in BTSX seems to be independent. An example WAD should be uploaded soon!

It's not used for that bridge (which is instead a variant of the mordeth bridge technique), but this does seem similar to the effect used for the 3D overhangs in BTSX E1's final hub map's outdoor scene, and in E2's "Unbaited Vicar of Scorched Earth".

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2 hours ago, Kapanyo said:

This trick allows you to create platforms which display a flat on both the top and bottom without any visual errors (depending on how you implement it).

That's "merely" an extension of the same effect. For more fun (but relying on sidedef sector reference abuse instead), check the secret Quake-remake level of Requiem (the famous drop-down into a room below) or the ikspcial tutorial WAD on /idgames showcasing room-above-room corridors. Both by Iikka Keranen. Still, very nice to see people interested into doing tricks the vanilla way instead of immediately assuming gzdoom.

 

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That Requiem map of course has its share of problems making the trick visible.

With hardware rendering it is a hopeless affair to emulate and in a software renderer that allows looking up and down it also quickly shows its limitations.

Not to mention that it totally whacks ZDoom's Trace function.

 

For its time it was cool but these days I guess most users will preceive it as a bug, not a feature, if they use a port that allows more than just looking straight ahead.

 

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28 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

That Requiem map of course has its share of problems making the trick visible.

With hardware rendering it is a hopeless affair to emulate and in a software renderer that allows looking up and down it also quickly shows its limitations.

Not to mention that it totally whacks ZDoom's Trace function.

 

For its time it was cool but these days I guess most users will preceive it as a bug, not a feature, if they use a port that allows more than just looking straight ahead.

 

This is why the player is prevented from standing underneath them in BTSX. If you can only see the effect from outside the 3D sector, the effect is completely seamless. I'm pretty sure they also work in GZDoom's hardware renderer.

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If you mean the BTSX stuff, yes, that one works fine. When I played the official release I didn't notice any problems, even the one that prompted me to add a compatibility setting for the earlier version was no longer present.

 

I was talking about the Requiem map in particular, which does not work at all in GZDoom (I have seen variations of this effect work in other maps, though) and glitches in ZDoom's software renderer when looking down.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

 if they use a port that allows more than just looking straight ahead.

If people adapt vanilla tricks for Boom-compatible maps, things get interesting again with Boom's "property transfer" action (242). You no longer need to have physical raised floors or lowered ceilings... you can bleed from faked flats instead. In the case of Requiem / ikspcial, you can get rid of an awful lot of control sidedefs that way as well and end up using just the fake floor rectangle and the fake ceiling rectangle. That is much more robust, both in setup and visuals. You'd still end up using an invisible moving 'bridge' sector to allow stuff either to stand above or underneath it (or a simple 3DMidTex grid for those ports that have it).

 

It -kinda- holds up to (limited) mouselook, but it is very finicky to get things working just right. However, any sprites just bleed through the whole illusion, not to mention monster behaviour that simply doesn't care.

 

Used to have this for E2 for elevators that move 'between floors' aka portal layers, but once linked portals were finished there was no need for them anymore and they got replaced with proper portal movement stuff.

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Holy crap, I wasn't aware of Requiem pulling crazy magical shmizzle like that. I need to open it up and see how it's done!

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tsVMGpN.png
Sucker.  It's mine now!  This is a neat little thing, though.  It's cool that there is always more tricks to learn for doom.

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Holy shmizzles, what's that mod? Or are you making it? Looks fantastic either way; thanks for trying out the effect!

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7 hours ago, Kapanyo said:

Holy shmizzles, what's that mod? Or are you making it? Looks fantastic either way; thanks for trying out the effect!

No, thank you. It's REKKR. A vanilla tc. 

Not finished yet.

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Here's a small demo WAD, runs on E1M1. You've got pillars there so that you can idspispopd on them and see the effect from above.

I hope I've done everything properly. Once again a million thanks to Kapanyo, you're the master, dude.

That first, more limited effect took me ages to figure out because I can't read.

 

test25.zip

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3 hours ago, Revae said:

No, thank you. It's REKKR. A vanilla tc. 

Not finished yet.

Ah, right! Thanks. I still look forward to your WAD!

 

3 hours ago, bzzrak said:

I hope I've done everything properly. Once again a million thanks to Kapanyo, you're the master, dude.

That first, more limited effect took me ages to figure out because I can't read.

 

test25.zip

Thank you! ^^

I actually expect it took you longer due to my incompetence at explaining things rather than any errors on your part. :<

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mMe4kow.png

 

Quickly testing out an idea. Provided you don't get near it, the effect can be used for free-standing structures.

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47 minutes ago, AD_79 said:

Quickly testing out an idea. Provided you don't get near it, the effect can be used for free-standing structures.

I imagine that wouldn't work if it had a wall rendering above it, and not the sky?  Or am I missing something?

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A witch!
Lemme see a map or a .wad file, please.  I'm going to abuse the shit out of this on at least one map.

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Ah alright.  I thought it was actually separated from the wall.  Still neat.  Still going to abuse it.  Thanks!

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Holy crapsicles, that's awesome x.x

Great to see people having fun with it!

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