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souio

Is it kinda pathetic to play 200-300 hours of Doom and wads

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...then start up Evilution for first time and die 4-5 times on the second stage (no saves, but I shouldn't need them this early, eh?

 

Dunno what's wrong with me lol.  I heard it's the easiest of the 2 after Plutonia. Should I just give up right now?

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lol my gaming skills are strange.

 

My death count for stage 2 of Evilution is now 3-4x higher than E4M1 of Thy Flesh Consumed.. which is known as one of the most difficult vanilla Doom levels.. and i'm not even 1/2 through

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Don't underestimate zombies. The early levels in all the IWADs are kinda hitscan-heavy, so if you're not prepared for a firefight with lots of undodgeable bullets, you might suffer a bit. :P

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Nah, it's chaingunners that always get me. The fact that, even with 200 armor, they can get you from 100 to death in 3 seconds is kinda crazy. I can take out revenants, archviles, mancubi no problem, but if a chaingunner is in a room, 99% of the time it's the reason for my death

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You'll never reach Nightmare with that pansy attitude. When entertainment becomes a challenge, you dig your heels in and keep playing!

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Do you hug corners at all? When many chain gunners are about I tend to slow it down. There is also always trial and error, when maps get kinda cheeky with hitscan, It's not such a threat when you know where everyone is at as they've low health.

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No it's not!! You just need to practice a lot, practice makes the master, I for example after like 20 wads learned that whenever I see a chaingunner he has to die asap and I always look for cover because, well we know their power. And don't hesitate to use saves whenever you feel the need to, eventually you'll become better at playing and you won't need to save every 2 minutes anymore. 

 

 

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Having fun is all that matters, not kill counts, or number of tries. It would suck if it was too easy, right?

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Keep at it, dude! Let their blood fuel your resolve!
Seriously, though. Just have fun! I like to think I'm a pretty solid Doom veteran, and my death count has to be in the thousands.

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One time I died in E1M1 because a shotgunner shot a barrel beside me, so no it's not pathetic. Thinking I was cool for ignoring a sergeant was pathetic.

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300 hours isn't much. Many people who have played Doom for just a year have already passed that. The number of hours you have played doesn't say much, either. If someone plays 1,000+ hours without ever practicing or pushing themselves, they might not be much better than after a couple hundred hours. Most people play Doom casually, and there is nothing wrong with that. So no, I don't think it's pathetic, and it wouldn't be even if you had more experience under your belt. 

 

I can't envision how you are playing, but from a brief glance at the level, there is no shame in camping all of the hitscanners, especially the early chaingunners. You should probably also save your limited bullet ammo early for the two ledge chaingunners behind the red key door. 

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I probably died more than 10000 times in my whole life playing several versions of Doom (not playing every single day from 1998 until now :D)

RIP ME

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TNT being easy is a rumor, some particular maps are 10x worse than plutonia in terms of chaingunner hellishness..

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23 minutes ago, SteelPH said:

No. Evilution's a bitch.

That music though.

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Wow, what a great supportive community!  I swallowed my pride and did saves before most major encounters and am having a much better time. I've made it to map 08 and think it's time for a break for the night. Was a little frustrated since I was dying so much so early, but when I got more comfy and realized that there was really no consequences for death, I was dying quite a bit less. I'll probably do pistol starts after playing though this completely a couple times, but I'm enjoying this so much more. Thanks everyone.

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In case you want to get better in a somewhat efficient way, here's some tidbits of what I do when it comes to playing the "hard stuff". (hard being a term that means  "what I can do" relative to the map's actual "difficulty")

 

Use and overuse saves: Split the map into different segments, and practice these segments individually. Nothing makes practice less fun and less efficient than doing things you can do all over again, to get a shot at that one area that got you killed in a few moments. Once you can do these smaller segments individually, start combining them to bigger segments, check your consistency on those bigger segments, and combine these until you have a full run, if that is what you want. I'll leave the "is gaming a waste of time" riff raff to someone else, but when it comes to practice, value your lifetime, and do it the right way, which means use and overuse saves.

 

Route the map: Don't just think in terms of keys, doors, and where cover is. Also think in terms of ammo, monster's locations, health, power-ups, and which monsters deal the most damage to you in specific spots. Yes, you need to hit certain switches, and you will need to get certain keys, but these aren't necessarily the most important details when it comes to surviving.

 

If you can handle the frustration that is "not being gud enough yet", don't dial down the difficulty, unless you're really facing a level that is aimed at challenging "uber-doomers". You want to get better fast? Then don't play pansy mode, practice instead. Playing pansy mode is for when you want to relax, or when you've given up on improving your play for the most part. Good practice lasts a "lifetime", turning down the difficulty lasts for a map, and doesn't do anything for you in the long run.

 

In case a map gives you trouble, see if you can find a demo for that particular map. Have a look at how others players handle the situations you've trouble with, see if you can mimic their actions, and try to understand those actions by "re-doing" them. It might be difficult at first, because some things can be difficult to execute properly, but your skills will improve much faster if you keep at it.

 

You need to understand that there's only so much "reactive skill" you can acquire, and most of this is somewhat limited by how many things you can keep track of at once (like dodging rockets in a hailstorm of imp fireballs). Knowing what's ahead, or even better: Having a plan in mind adds proactive skills to your play, which will change the way you play overall. Once you start playing proactively, you can focus on important details, rather than the general mayhem that is around you. It will make you a no-nonsense methodical killing machine with nerves of steel.

 

Last but not least: 200-300 hours is virtually nothing in terms of "git gud". Over the years people put way over ten times that amount of pratice into this game, and I wouldn't be suprised if some people were actuallay way past 20.000 (twentythousand) hours or even more. Your big advantage these days is that you can learn from these people, and improve a lot quicker as a result.

 

Welcome to Doomworld, by the way. :-)

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10 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

don't dial down the difficulty,

I disagree. I find the fastest, and most effecient way of getting good at a game is starting at a bearible level, and turn it up when comfortable. This will give you time to grasp the skillset needed without the frustrations dying to every little thing. No shame in starting a game on normal. Not to mention this will allow a pretty constent momentum of getting things done so you don't get bored in the process.

 

For example, lets say you start doom for the first time and say, hey, I heard of this tyson thing, lets try that first. Sounds silly doesn't it?

12 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

ou need to understand that there's only so much "reactive skill" you can acquire,

Another thing I disagree with. Eventually when you play enough of these games you can focus to a point where it literally feels like time is slowing down, easiest game to see this effect on yourself would be tetris I would say.

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Try TNT Revilution. It's much better. 

And 200-300 hours are nothing buddy, I'm playing this game since childhood, then joined ZDaemon community (doom multiplayer) in 2010 and spending countless hours from there on great and well made custom WADs that never stop coming. I've even spent so many hours making my own doom levels; it was a lot of fun to mess around with Doom Builder in childhood so it started as a playground passion for me. DooM is a never ending experience!

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28 minutes ago, MrGlide said:

I disagree. I find the fastest, and most effecient way of getting good at a game is starting at a bearible level, and turn it up when comfortable. This will give you time to grasp the skillset needed without the frustrations dying to every little thing. No shame in starting a game on normal. Not to mention this will allow a pretty constent momentum of getting things done so you don't get bored in the process.

 

For example, lets say you start doom for the first time and say, hey, I heard of this tyson thing, lets try that first. Sounds silly doesn't it?

I kind of expect the supposed reader to be smart enough to know that getting comfortable with the controls and understanding the basic principles is what always comes first. Once you got the basics down, there's no reason to dial down, aside of those rare cases that I mentioned. And I can toss a list of games at you in which the method of dialing down doesn't do anything for you, and Doom is one of those, because of how impactful the differences between difficulty settings can be in terms of monster quantity and/or quality. So no, learning a map on HNTR doesn't do much for you when you want to try it on UV. Disagree for all I care, fact of the matter is that my method of practice didn't fail me in years.

 

EDIT II:

Quote

If you can handle the frustration that is "not being gud enough yet", don't dial down the difficulty

 

28 minutes ago, MrGlide said:

Another thing I disagree with. Eventually when you play enough of these games you can focus to a point where it literally feels like time is slowing down, easiest game to see this effect on yourself would be tetris I would say.

Play maps with higher monstercounts and a higher degree of exposure or, if you want a different genre, play a danmaku-shmup on higher difficulty settings, and then tell me how far your reactive skills get you in terms of survivability, clear times, or score. And don't tell you don't play tetris proactively to make sure you always have the best odds of fitting in most of the blocks you need to handle, because if you don't you're doing it wrong.

 

EDIT: In regards to not dialing down: We're talking +200 hours of playtime here already, by the way. So what's the point in going easy-mode in order to get better anyway? There's none that I can see.

Edited by Nine Inch Heels

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20 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I kind of expect the supposed reader to be smart enough to know that getting comfortable with the controls and understanding the basic principles is what always comes first.

There is a firm difference between the "basics" and more advance maneuvers like proper infighting, Kiting rockets properly, Two shotting, and beating various monsters to death with your punches. When talking about user made wads, Difficulty varies, and how it is implemented does as well. In some cases you'll see less monsters to deal with and get a feel for a decent strategy for an area, or you'll get more health and the same amount of monsters. So yes, there is a difference in difficulty in Doom, at least when implemented.

 

Your way may have not failed you, but I never said it wasn't viable. I was just stating a way I personally felt was a faster path to advance ones skillset in games in general, which contradicts your advise. another good example would be, you should try Scythe before playing swim with the whales or stardate.

45 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Play maps with higher monstercounts and a higher degree of exposure

Higher monster count doesn't really mean much other than group management and infighting in many cases. As for your argument against reactive skill, you said it as

 

if there was a cap, which I'm in the argument that one can always improve. It's why I only quoted that bit. Of course practicing tactical maneuvers Is highly beneficial, but that Reaction time is whats going to help you identify key targets in a crowd that can cause trouble, Unless you plan on dying to every encounter.

 

58 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

And don't tell you don't

Wat.

58 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

play tetris proactively to make sure you always have the best odds of fitting in most of the blocks you need to handle, because if you don't you're doing it wrong.

1. please don't lecture me on tetris, you've no clue how much I've played.

2. you're doing it wrong if you're solely focusing on clearing the maximum amount of lines, as score doesn't directly reflect that. Almost every Tetris game has a different scoring standard, so the best strategies for one may not be the best for another, unless you're talking about 40 lines strictly, as that mode is about clearing as fast as possible. Some builds will require you to get more combo intensive, some will reward you with the most score for just simpley pulling as many t-spin doubles as you can fit. at a certain point of tetris it isn't how many blocks you can handle or how fast, but about maximizing score with the needed manuvers and learning how to build those situations. "Handeling" everything thrown at you just becomes apart of the routine.

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

+200 hours of playtime

on standard wads or god forbid I-wads, Doesn't equal experience of a single map completion of something far more challanging, like Chillax for example.

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A very simple technique is to just do it. Let everything else come to you.

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1 hour ago, Voros said:

A very simple technique is to just do it. Let everything else come to you.

Fools rush in.

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