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Spectre01

What are your thoughts on infinite height?

Do you enjoy playing with infinite height mechanics?  

100 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you enjoy playing with infinite height mechanics?

    • Yes
      34
    • No
      53
    • No, but I feel forced to due to XYZ.
      13


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So, infinite height, one of those awkward mechanics from vanilla Doom which was quickly "fixed" for Heretic and other games using the same base engine. I'm not a fan of it as it creates too many awkward scenarios like getting blocked by monsters from below that you can't see, like the infamous Spectres in nukage, or getting stuck on junk floating 20 meters above you while trying to avoid Cyberdemon rockets. It also limits various mapping options in regards to vertical design, where say a player has to platform above a previous area without having killed all the monsters before doing so. Oh, and let's not forget the various "cheese strats" using the rocket launcher that are possible. As you can tell, I'm not a huge fan but have to tolerate and be aware of it when mapping or playing wads in PRBoom+. Aside from maintaining pure vanilla mechanics, what are some things that people like about infinite height and how does it positively affect gameplay in modern PWADs?

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It was a thing but should be discarded these days. It's never fun to be walking around but OH SHIT hanging dead bodies blocking your movement for pretty much no reason....worse if they are super high up.

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I dislike it but am very used to it. I've always found it strange that they didn't just use the enemy/player hitbox height definitions like ZDoom does. Honestly it's pretty much the only thing about vanilla Doom mechanics where I'm like "there's no good excuse for that". Getting blocks from a player standing 50ft below you is particularly annoying in Deathmatch.

 

Plus, it also perpetuates that dumb "Doom is basically a top down shooter" myth!

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Personally, I like playing with infinite heights as long as the map I'm currently running is designed in a way that makes it "non-dickish". The moment mappers design levels in which inf-heights are deliberately used to annoy/troll players extensively, or said maps are made in a way where inf-heights become a constant issue due to the map's layout, it's the mapper who's to "blame", and not the game mechanic. Not to mention that many setups as we see them these days wouldn't even be possible without infinite heights.

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24 minutes ago, FuzzballFox said:

It was a thing but should be discarded these days. It's never fun to be walking around but OH SHIT hanging dead bodies blocking your movement for pretty much no reason....worse if they are super high up.

protip for anyone who wishes to fix this: prboom has an option to make it so you can walk under solid hanging bodies in the general options, near the end in the mapping errors section (it applies to all hanging corpse decorations)

 

i thought it just replaced the blocking versions with their nonsolid variants but it actually just turns off infinite height for them, so you still get blocked by them if they are at your level but can still walk under them, which i was very surprised to see be done so easily

 

a very effective solution to a very common yet major mapping problem

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I've never really liked infinite height. While I can only imagine they included it for a good reason in the vanilla code, from a practical sense it's just awkward. It's no surprise that no other FPS game uses the same mechanic, and id themselves dropped it for Quake.

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Coming from a DM perspective, where "old school" flags dictate infinite height is enabled, sucks, and sucks hard. It is the single flag preventing any sort of "progress" of old-school style dm/duel maps because bridges things cannot be passed over/under, and with 3d floors means players can bump into each other/trap others. I mean I get why it should be there but fuck that "feature."

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Aside from visplanes/vissegs, infinite height is vanilla Doom's least charming limitation.

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I'm not a fan of infinite height things at all. Especially in cases when you try to jump off a ledge only to find that there's a bunch of monsters blocking your way and end up tearing you apart.

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I'm just gonna jump off this cliff, here... Oh, hello Pinky who's attacking me, even though you're 1024 units below me.

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Infinite height is simply a bad design that Heretic quickly solved. It's actually the cause for a semi-common troll in a popular and classic duel map: king1

 

Spoiler

If I stand against the wall below the bfg cubby here: uwZ2XXJ.png

 

I can't move if I spawn here: 3BsIa0X.png

 

 

I know some folks enjoy instances of shooting their target, missing, hitting the wall above them and still damaging them, but infinite height is just really stupid for everything else.

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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

or said maps are made in a way where inf-heights become a constant issue due to the map's layout, it's the mapper who's to "blame", and not the game mechanic.

This really seems more like an argument to not much more than 256 or so distance between the floor and ceiling at all times than anything else.

 

52 minutes ago, Ru5tK1ng said:

I know some folks enjoy instances of shooting their target, missing, hitting the wall above them and still damaging them, but infinite height is just really stupid for everything else.

That has nothing to do with infinite height - it only comes into play with collisions between solid actors. Hitscans use full 3D collision and there's no projectile that is also solid, so what you're thinking of is just autoaim.

 

Or explosion damage, but that's caused by rocket explosions themselves being 2D and thus "infinite height," not the actors themselves.

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You say "limits ... design" I hear "encourages creativity."

 

Part of the charm of mapping for vanilla/lr/boom is mapping with everything in mind, regardless of whether we like them or not. Creativity will get you past solid walls.

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Just good if you play DOOM in the old sytle, I find it illogical and nonsense, but it's very rare to me to have problem with.

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28 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

That has nothing to do with infinite height - it only comes into play with collisions between solid actors. Hitscans use full 3D collision and there's no projectile that is also solid, so what you're thinking of is just autoaim.

 

Or explosion damage, but that's caused by rocket explosions themselves being 2D and thus "infinite height," not the actors themselves.

You're right, it slipped my mind that they are 2 different things. Nonetheless, 2d rocket explosion is still in the same territory as infinitely tall actors in regards to enjoyment.

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I honestly find it annoying most of the times. There's this secret in a map of Alien Vendetta where, according to the wiki, you must fall through a metal well behind some bloody bars to grab several goodies, but it doesn't mention an exploding barrel blocking the path. This is a case of infinite height I truly hated, secrets are sacred to me, they are what makes a map feel so absorbing (whenever the secrets are interesting of course). 

 

BUT, for moments where, let's suppose a cacoswarm and a revswarm is in the same area, rocket-launching the cacos help to kill some revs due to splash damage, that's a cool effect, though I could live without it.

 

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Gonna be honest here, I don't mind it. I actually kinda like it and prefer to play vanilla/boom stuff with it on.

 

those blocking hanging bodies are bad though

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Always have it on since it gives the real feeling of the original DooM unless the map is not designed for this. Of course, if someone would design a map with hanging things you couldn't see intentionally, that'll be bad... but I guess that's the problem of the designer not the infinite high setting.

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3 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Honestly it's pretty much the only thing about vanilla Doom mechanics where I'm like "there's no good excuse for that".

You don't know how difficult it is to implement correct 3D clipping in vanilla Doom, without the glitches that exist in games like Heretic.

 

I can also see an excuse for its existence in Doom: it really looks silly that you can fall and stand on top of a humanoid actor without harming him. You really should be causing him some damage and immobilizing him to the ground.

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2 hours ago, silentzorah said:

I'm just gonna jump off this cliff, here... Oh, hello Pinky who's attacking me, even though you're 1024 units below me.

This happened to me once in a goddamn Ironman run. Damn it.

Infinite height sucks IMO but I still always turn it on in all ports that support it. Infinitely tall explosions are somewhat of a compensation, I like them.

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I hated that and being clawed to death by monsters on the other side of very tall lifts, circle of death was one of those vanilla maps where the tiny lifts at the end can take chunks of health off before you can kill the imps clawing you.

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In this day and age, sure. But, for the first 1,000 or so plays, I barely noticed. Didn't make the game any less fun, it just caused a few strange occurrences. And, it's a game mechanic that adds some interesting (if not silly) dynamics that you won't really see anywhere else. Who's to say that demons can't scratch 100 feet above their head? :)

 

I can't say that infinite height annoys me to no end. It's awkward at times - that's about as far as I can go with it. I do play with infinite height disabled/fixed. But I voted "yes", cause the question's wording leaves something to be desired. I enjoy Doom with infinite heights, and I enjoy Doom without.

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I just ran into this problem once again in BTSX, 2nd level or so where theres a healthpack on a crate. Was about to grab it but got blocked by a shotgun guy standing next to it, he obviously shot at me and so killed me. It took me a few seconds to even get what was going on. 

 

Not a biggie since I saved before, but still moments like this I'd normally pass as bad design by the devs.

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In Doom in Hexen format mapping, this feature disables the purpose of Bridge items, making the bridges act as invisible walls that you can't cross.

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Really, without this feature, we could have had awesome puzzles involving walking on monsters' heads - actually, no, the mere idea that we could have rode Cacodemons makes it completely inexcusable.

 

srsly tho I expect if iD had just done what Raven did, we would have had a 3D bridge Thing waaaaaaaaay back in Vanilla Doom/Doom II, as it would literally just be a floating decoration with an independent height variable - which would have made DM all the better. T___T

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Because I've gotten used to taking advantage of psuedo 3D bridges in some of my maps and even played several wads which did as well, I much prefer not using infinite height at all because it definitely can get annoying sometimes. Though, if I replay the IWADs or some of the older PWADs I may decide to play with it on for sake of authenticity.

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