What do you hate the most about mapping?

[42PercentHealth]

9 minutes ago, DoctorGenesis said:

I have Slade on Ubuntu, but I haven't tooled around with its map editor much... GZDoom Builder is part of the reason I keep a Windows 10 PC around in case.

Yeah, I looked into that one, but I think ubuntu is the only distro that it works for (I'm using Fedora). Thanks, though! I'll probably get a Windows VM or maybe just a cheap laptop eventually.

[DoctorGenesis]

You're welcome!

[Benjogami]

The worst part for me is having a clear vision for something cool in my head and then not being able to realize it. It happens constantly, but usually one of my stabs at making the cool thing will result in a different sort of cool thing that gives me some new ideas, and through additions and revisions it can turn out okay. Mapping can be very improvisational sometimes: stumble on something cool, run with it, see where it goes. When I was into making music, it was much the same.

[durian]

Ambition exceeding talent.

[DooM_RO]

@Roofi

 

Can confirm.

[Reisal]

Loss of inspiration/ideas and MAPPER'S BLOCK.

[Psyrus]

The actual construction of areas and thing placement are virtually 50/50 for me personally.  It varies based on what size and type of area you have built and whether there is a form of cover or not.
 

However, I think one big issue is experience with the actual designing.  I tend to be very meticulous with my designing, and since I don't have as much overall experience, concepts do not come to me as easily, and things take forever.  I don't have a clear understanding of what kinds of monster ambushes, combinations, traps, other forms of gameplay mechanics (map flow?) work together like bread and butter outside of common sense (mancubus blocking a 64-wide door for instance a.k.a. walls of health).  I end up gathering ideas from what other mappers have done, or have commented on, and end up emulating those ideas which could be conceived as removing the originality from a map.  Looking back at my most recent map "Interlock", the design was basically there, but from what I gathered it suffered from thing placement issues badly and me not understanding what complevels were and how they worked.  But ultimately, the designing ideas were "emulated" all due to lack of experience.

I hope the general idea is there.  Putting out thoughts clearly is not my specialty most of the time.

[ReX]

1 hour ago, durian said:

Ambition exceeding talent.

Reach exceeding grasp. It has, on occasion, slowed me down. But it's mostly been because I have piled my plate too high, right before Real Life kicks me in the ass, and then I can't successfully juggle everything. But I wouldn't consider this something I "hate the most about mapping". More, that I dislike my sometimes-vaulting ambition.

[Phade102]

Texturing is really frustrating. Having to make lines just the right length to make the appropriate length texture, otherwise people complain about misallignment or not perfect textures. I generally just ignore it unless its something easily fixable.

[nxGangrel]

Probably the fact I stick to the same dozen lindef actions and don't ever use the rest.

[darkreaver]

TBH, actually make the maps play good. I love designing the architecture and scenery, but making gameplay...meh. :(

[Scotty]

• The initial battles with inspiration and imagination, either trying to get something going or realise a picture in your mind - i always find this to be the single hardest thing and like to mindlessly speedmap initial map areas or concepts to see if they snowball into something worthwhile.
• Playtesting, namely trying to understand the map from a blind perspective or trying to figure out the impact of secrets on the balance of the map.
• Tedium of difficulty settings and having to do more and more playtesting just to get a feel for any little change.
• When you think you've finally got a map nailed then someone else tests it and a million fucking problems raise their heads.
• How long it all takes (especially if you are actually trying to make something good).
• The hopeless moments when you feel that everything you are creating is complete shit and you could just scrap the lot despite having spent hours and hours on it.

[jazzmaster9]

For me its Thing Placement and the endless hours of playtesting after you "think" you're done with the map.

[Matthias]

The maps looks epic and awesome in my head.

 

The real result is... meh :D

[scalliano]

Implementing difficulty levels. I optimise for UV, everything else is just a pain in the arse.

[MrSkeltal]

I mostly map in vanilla format and while working within limits is fine it's dealing with enemy closets that's a tedious bore. Setting up the linedefs, making the closet areas, placing the enemies, then testing to make sure they open correctly and enemies actually detect the player and come out. zzzzzzzz and that's ignoring areas where I have to resort to enemy teleporters which can easily mess up because of the AI no matter how many times I test it. Makes me want to move on to GZDoom mapping where I can do all that with a simple script.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

I hate when an area gets so complex you remember why people use symmetric places instead. Bonus points for trying to fix monster pathing in some zones and then realize why doom 1 has so many cacos.

[riderr3]

Probably only thing which I don't like about mapping is... map testing after map is done. Because most of my maps is pretty big.

[Soundblock]

On 22.5.2017 at 8:51 PM, durian said:

Ambition exceeding talent.

Basically, this. But isn't that the trouble with life in general?

 

More specifically to mapping, the inability (or lack of time) to implement elements that have been "seemingly effortlessly" on display in other good maps. For me, its often stuff  but not always technical (to me) stuff like:

- UDMF format features

- adding some new weapons

- including tasteful pallette shifts

- mastering scripting, to add to the interest of the play experience

- adding new music (can't even read music notes!)

- similar points to what's already been mentioned (vision vs. final product, play testing, certain lengthy texture alignment operations, difficulty settings)

I can only find time to implement so many "unique" features to my maps and over the last releases its been focused on adding some new monsters to the fray.

 

Also:

- after mapping/building "wildly" - creating layout/playflow dead-ends that won't lead to anywhere useful unless you double the size of the map.

- having more areas in the map than there are meaningful number of keys and powerups to be placed out.

- running out of new ideas and having to slightly rehash a previously used technique in order to wrap up a map.

 

 

 

[Snakes]

The worst part about mapping for me, by far, is bugfixing. This is especially true if you want to commit yourself to making a vanilla-compatible wad, because inevitably when you fix something, another thing gets hosed in the process.

 

Honorable mention goes to balancing across difficulties, partly because there's always that thought in the back of your head as to whether or not anyone's going to appreciate the fact that you took the time to add a super shotgun on Skill 2 where it's a just good ol' shotgun on higher difficulties.

[Koko Ricky]

Yeah, balancing multiple difficulties is a strange affair. I've found that what felt intuitive—providing more ammo on lower difficulties—was actually the opposite of what was needed. You end up with the player maxing out their rounds almost immediately! It's also a bit too easy to cut down on monsters to the point that "I'm Too Young to Die" almost turns your map into a ghost town.

[Guest Unregistered account]

I think I pay too much attention to my difficulty levels. On some occasions, on Level 1, I've done stuff like have a room where an Imp walks towards you on lower difficulties, but on higher difficulties there's two of them hiding behind the corners of the room, so you don't see any Imps until you step into the room and hear them.

 

I still haven't finished that level.

[Jimmy]

On 5/23/2017 at 0:35 AM, Xaser said:

I have over ten maps (not even exaggerating) that are stuck in the "done except thing placement" stage. My Achilles heel is starting to fester.

This.

 

Difficulty settings can git fucked

[Not Jabba]

Oh, you know what else is really frustrating? Having to accommodate everybody's individual playstyle. Tyson, speedrun, jumping/crouching, freelook. You have to keep people from being able to snipe everything, because if they can do it they will, and they'll complain about the fact that they're sniping everything. Then there are the (many, many) people who won't save ever, so your map has to work with the gameplay style that goes with trying to beat a map on the first try without saves, without also glutting health and ammo for the people who don't play that way. Then it has to be balanced with or without secrets. Then you have to make it all work with coop. It's enough to drive anyone crazy.

[Ribbiks]

to state the obvious: you don't need to accommodate anyone. make what you personally find interesting to play, perhaps preventing egregious map cheese where possible (e.g. forcing the player to shoot before entering a teleport trap, etc), tell people what port/settings it's meant for, and accept that there's always going to be a percentage of the playerbase that dislikes your work because it contains some super specific design element that they've fetishized a hatred for, or because they can't follow instructions (e.g. playing with jump/crouch when it breaks the map).

 

 

 

[Cruduxy Pegg]

In all honesty this feels like one of the cons of trying to design a map for as many ports as possible combined with compat settings letting people do whatever the hell they want to do. Of course these are nothing compared to the complaint that your maps are too hard\bad when loaded with a dozen or more of pwads.

[Koko Ricky]

I also get stuck in maps when I can't decide what sort of custom music and sky I want because I feel that those two elements help give my maps personality.

[Not Jabba]

21 minutes ago, Ribbiks said:

to state the obvious: you don't need to accommodate anyone. make what you personally find interesting to play, perhaps preventing egregious map cheese where possible (e.g. forcing the player to shoot before entering a teleport trap, etc), tell people what port/settings it's meant for, and accept that there's always going to be a percentage of the playerbase that dislikes your work because it contains some super specific design element that they've fetishized a hatred for, or because they can't follow instructions (e.g. playing with jump/crouch when it breaks the map).

Thanks, and I agree -- partly I was just venting, because it's frustrating to get negative criticism about a map even when you disagree with it and aren't going to make the requested changes. On the other hand, I also think a good map needs to make a sort of baseline good-faith effort to iron out any problems with all those various playstyles *unless* doing so really destroys some intended aspect of the map's intended design -- and it can be very difficult.

[Fletcher`]

Starting.

[Zemini]

My biggest problem only happens after a lot of mapping late into the night.  I am unable to sleep very becauase I keep thinking Doom Builder shit such as raising and lowering sectors and drawing rooms.  My mind just gets all jumbled.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Zemini