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Gustavo6046

Doom Builder and how it's hard to create stairs of most shapes

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I don't see much use in this Stair Sector Builder Mode thing. It's not gonna help me add some steps here:

67293e8766.png

You see, the sand is the island and the wood is the dock. That corner sector in the dock is meant to be the staircase, but how will I split it without staying hours in front of this screen? I could try Bridge mode (which I have learnt to love)... if only that sector didn't already exist!

 

I have more rants, as to how making stairs in fashionable shapes is very hard on Doom Builder-derived ports (like in my case GZDoom Builder). With a bit of very creative thinking I managed to edit a grid with no vertical slice and some horizontal slices:

79a9792c33.png

 

But I still can't slant this sucker in the way I've wanted! Argh!

 

Wait, what if I rotate it? Let's try... Crap, it looks like some glitch gremlin sat over those linedefs! I can't do this! Looks awful!

45eef0ba92.png

 

Wait... can I just move one of these vertices and align the others with the two ends? Oh, not even GZDoom Builder can inline vertices! Sucks!

702af2df12.png

 

Ok, so I guess I'll have to merge all left vertices... Aha~ looks nothing like it's supposed to. Gaaah! Damn final version of art!

f33da95cd3.png

At least now I can just do a floor gradient... although I do want to do something decent. Will doing it manually be my last option? Naah there is ALWAYS a better way! I will find it!

 

[Several centuries later]

 

YES! Dammit, this took me EONS to find out! Shame on you Doom Builder!

d6722afec4.gif

Now on to saving...

 

cf080cd340.gif

 

-------

Did you ever have any similiar problems? Post here. I'm sure at least ONE did, because it's not possible! Dammit!

Edited by Gustavo6046

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As a last resort, don't use the automated tools; do it manually. Split the angled linedef (the one on the left of your desired stairs sector) and the "straight" linedef (at the right of the sector) into the relevant number of linedefs. In your example, you want 7 total linedefs on each side. In this way, the split linedef that is angled will generally retain its original angle. Then draw in the relevant number of stair sectors.

 

Also, you can get better vertex control if you turn off "snap to grid". This will allow you to ensure angles for the 7 linedefs that are generally consistent with the original linedef's angle.

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The relevant number is unclear most of the time. And splitting linedefs with exactness in the fractions is impossible without a grid, but it's impossible to make right angles WITH a grid.

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17 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

The relevant number is unclear most of the time. And splitting linedefs with exactness in the fractions is impossible without a grid, but it's impossible to make right angles WITH a grid.

In your example, you want 7 linedefs (i.e., 7 stairs). Splitting linedefs into odd numbered segments is, admittedly, not straightforward. However, with some patience it can be done with a reasonable semblance of keeping the sidedefs properly aligned. In fact, splitting linedefs is very much possible without snapping to the grid. And as for right angles (I assume you mean 90 degree angles), using a grid is the easiest way to set things up.

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On 23.5.2017 at 0:34 AM, Gustavo6046 said:

I don't see much use in this Stair Sector Builder Mode thing. It's not gonna help me add some steps here:

67293e8766.png

You see, the sand is the island and the wood is the dock. That corner sector in the dock is meant to be the staircase, but how will I split it without staying hours in front of this screen? I could try Bridge mode (which I have learnt to love)... if only that sector didn't already exist!

 

You mean like this?

d5zN8AD.png

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How did you do that? Stair sector building mode is too weird for me.

Anyways, I managed to do it... using bridge mode. I wonder how if that usually bugs for me :/

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That final gif in the op made me laugh my ass off.

 

I'm anal retentive, so doing everything the hard way is second nature to me. I'd just fanagle the stairs manually til it looked right. Never used stair or bridge mode before.

 

The biggest issue I used to have was making stairs that rose or lowered with the flip of a switch. Rising stairs are no problem now, but I sometimes still have trouble with stairs that lower. During development of Strange Aeons every time I made a moving staircase it was a nightmare. The lowering staircase in e3m3 took about an hour to work out. Ugh.

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11 hours ago, Gustavo6046 said:

How did you do that? Stair sector building mode is too weird for me.

Anyways, I managed to do it... using bridge mode. I wonder how if that usually bugs for me :/

By creating a spline stair without modifying the control points:

 

Draw the lines you want your stair to be between, then select those lines:

qUyK3kB.png

 

Go to stair sector builder mode and select the "Catmull Rom" tab:

dYQcgzd.png

 

The lines might be twisted (depends on the orientation of the selected lines), in that case select one of the "Flipping" options. Then just enter the number of steps you want and you're done:

nurjv24.png

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OH. That's what "Catmull Rom" means. It's like Bridge Mode in steroids (with some exceptions). Thank you very much!

I'm sure little people know about it :P

 

So, is auto curve similiar?

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It's a bit unfortunate that the tab is called Catmull Rom. It's a type of spline named after Edwin Catmull and Raphael Rom. It allows you to create arbitrarily curved stairs by placing control points. I guess I named the tab like that because earlier versions used Bézier curves instead.

 

Auto curve is a bit different, it just creates a curved stair between selected lines.

 

There are some older videos of what you can do with the stair sector builder mode:

 

 

 

 

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Neat!

 

I found out I can't join 2 groups of 2 or more linedefs using Catmull Rom, but I can still join 1 pair at a time. Making stairs never has been so fun... (and puzzling :P)

I want to try something new now. Some cool technique. Like drawing a non-linear map or something...

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